TALKBACK: Godzilla (2014) - (OBVIOUS SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[KingKaiju]

I have to say... I'm watching the movie right now on my laptop with my lights off and all, and it's still a little tough to see. I'm at the scene where they find the Godzilla fossils. I'm hoping that it gets better than this.

[Gwangi]

[HannibalBarca]

It's always good when you dismiss arguments made by people who disagree with you by calling them whiners who didn't get enough "candy."

[Jorzilla]

I would have been fine with the exact same amount of screen time if any other of the movies elements had actually been about Godzilla. The symptom might be a lack of Godzilla screen time, but the root cause is a picture that flat out assumed the audience knew 'enough' about Godzilla that they spent 90% of the monster exposition on the MUTOs. Fans then go home and complain on Facebook for how stupid their friends are for being confused as to why Godzilla could breath blue fire as if it's the audiences fault for not being knowledgeable about Godzilla before going to the first movie in a new Godzilla franchise.

Whenever someone bring up the fact that Godzilla 1954 has less, I can't help but point out the entire movie is a morality play on different approaches of dealing with Godzilla. Even if he's not the focus of the picture, his affect on people's lives and the different responses (kill it, study it, etc) is the focal point. Godzilla 2014 just has a monster that flat out shows up when it was convientant to the plot "because he was listening." As it's been pointed out again and again, that's a fine approach to a sequel (something that Gigan uses), but as a reboot film for a new franchise it is not a path I would have taken.

[MekaGojira3k]

So I watched this with my 5-year-old cousin, he’s seen a lot of these movies, the only films he hasn’t seen are: Godzilla (1998), Godzlla X MechaGodzilla (2002), and Godzilla: Final Wars (2004).

I thought it’d be neat to collect his thoughts and quotes during the experience. Some of this is interesting, some of it is just strange. XD

- Are they trying to blow up Godzilla? (During opening credits) He thinks this is a stupid idea.
- Were there any dinosaurs left alive in 1999? (He’s very confused about the fact that there was time before he existed)
- His theories on the skeleton in the Philippines: Another Godzilla, Angilas, or Gorosaurus.
- “There’s Godzilla. Boom.” when he saw the Let Them Fight poster.
- Immediately bored when Bryan Cranston discussed seismic activity.
- “Close the door, man!” to Bryan Cranston’s character Joe, during the incident at Janjira
- Ford gets to Tokyo and it shows the city and says “Tokyo”, he chuckled and said “I know what’s going to happen to that.”
- “There has to be a monster in there.” Post-Incident Janjira revealed.
- “What the, did they make Godzilla that? Or is it a big stone? Is Godzilla gonna pop out of that?” - on the MUTO coccoon. (He was convinced what left the cave was Godzilla.)
- “Something is gonna pop out of that…and I know what that is.” - on the MUTO coccoon. (Still convinced its Godzilla.)
- “Whatever’s in there I’d sure like to know…” he began to lose patience with the build up.
- “What is that!? That’s not Godzilla. That doesn’t look like a monster either. It’s weird.” - (he lost his mind when MUTO was revealed.)
The above is one of the most interesting things, because I asked him about his problem with the MUTO not looking like monsters. Basically, the MUTO weren’t monsters because they were CGI, he sort of equates suitmation/puppets/props to monsters. CGI is something else entirely. I thought this was really cool.
- “Watch out stupid man!” - When the male MUTO rises up behind Ford.
- “He’s weird, but okay.” - on MUTO, although he was convinced he was a mutant grasshopper.
- “He’s going to eat the earth, and some building.” - What he felt MUTO was flying off to do.
- “Is that poop?” “No.” “What’s that?” “A submarine.” “Did he poop a submarine? How did he do that?” - the Russian sub being found.
- “Two Godzillas! No, three!” - Godzilla surfacing in Hawaii, man was he disappointed. He thought each of the giant fins coming out of the water were a different Godzilla.
- “Are Godzilla and the boats friends?” - On the navy following Godzilla
- ” Why is that dummy going in the tunnel?” - to Ford and the others, Ford was called “Dummy, stupid man, stupid guy, dumb guy” interchangeably throughout the film. At the end I asked him why he said that, and he said “Because he is dumb, he won’t run and he just stands there. He keeps getting attacked and rides on trains and jumps into monster fights.”
- “They better go underground.” as Elle Brody sends her son to the shelter.
- “Get off of the bridge. This is so dumb. Why won’t they let anyone go?” - the bridge scene.
- “Pfft no bomb will do nothing to those monsters.” - When they check the bomb just before MUTO dives on them.
- “Let them fight…I say let them be.” - When Serizawa has the “Let them fight.” line. This kid is…ridiculous.
- “The city looks dead.” As the halo jump happens.
- “That mommy is gonna be one mad mommy, if they find it what will the daddy say? He’s going to kill them all.” - As the soldiers head to find the nest/bomb.
- “Gaw, gosh oh!” - The big roar in San Francisco
- “They should shoot them.” - on the MUTO eggs
- “It looks like the MUTOs are gonna beat him, that’s dumb. Godzilla is cool, and MUTO is alright, but if they beat him that’s dumb.” - Mutos vs. Godzilla
- “Go stupid man, run!”
- “No! Godzilla! No! Run!” - when the Mutos seem to gain the upper hand.
- “No…Godzilla can’t die, the MUTOs aren’t strong enough. They’re weird and tiny.” - Godzilla passes out.
- “Somebody go touch him.” - the first shot of the sleeping Godzilla in the wreckage.
- “Goodbye destroyed city.” - What he believes Godzilla is saying with his last roar.

Also, for whatever reasons the MUTOs were called either Komuto or Mutosaurus. He still called them MUTO some of the time though.

I asked his opinion on the thing. He said he liked it, he wished “stupid guy” wasn’t in it. “There wasn’t enough of Godzilla stomping things.” He likes a couple of movies better but he still liked it.

I think it’s super interesting that he didn’t immediately accept MUTO as not just a Godzilla monster or kaiju, but as a monster period. The CGI had a different look that he described as “weird.” I also think his distaste for Ford is funny.

[XvGojira]

That's hilarious and cute.

[Gwangi]

[Legion]

[Reaper G]

[Hybrid Gojira]

[Gojiraknight]

[MekaGojira3k]

I'm just not satisfied with what we've got. Monster Zero doesn't have all that much, but what we do get is great. Besides, the rest of that movie is AWESOME. The rest of this film is...okay. It's very middle of the road for me, although I have to say seeing it on home video makes me feel less displeasure with the thing than having to drive and pay to see it in a theater.

I'm actually still very pleased with the MUTOs. I felt more could have been done with the parasite nature, but mostly I dug what was going on.

[Hybrid Gojira]

[walshiam]

To me, MUTOs were as interesting as any other Godzilla critter out there and IMHO held the picture together just fine until Godzilla showed up. Again, some of us act surprised by the final product when if they had kept up with the news before the film, there would have been less to complain about.

[Jorzilla]

The MUTOs feel more like an animal acting according to animally things that an actual existential thread to the world. That wasn't explained enough in my previous post where I didn't feel that they are enough of a threat. Post-movie you can justify to me why these creatures are interesting or dangerous, and I can agree with you on paper for why these are dangerous creatures.

However, in the emotion of watching the film I simply was not drawn to them as an interesting antagonist. In the Godzilla movies where he is a hero, the monsters are generally so much worse that you have no hope at all but to cheer for Godzilla, especially in the 1960s version. I'm specifically talking about baddies like (The following baddies are backed up with characterization and specifically dialogue on screen):

King Ghidorah - Literally introduced as a monster that destroyed an entire planet and civilization. Godzilla might have torched some Japanese cities, but he was outclassed in villanry by KG. You end up cheering for both Rodan and Godzilla, despite being previously antagonistic monsters, because they are our last hope.

Hedorah - The movie clearly states that even if a small portion of Hedorah managed to survive, there is enough pollution that it could re-form and once again threaten the planet.

Gigan - Similar to KG, Gigan existed at the will of his masters to destroy human civilization. He was a walking weapon, albeit a controlled one.

Megalon - See Gigan.

Mechagodzilla - Similar to KG and Gigan, however, being a robot, there's a certain sinister element that comes from him being an uncaring robot.

Space Godzilla - Basically a repeat of KG.

Destroyah - Basically a repeat of Hedorah

Godzilla 1998 - If his eggs are allowed to hatch the world could potentially find itself over-run with Godzillas.

MUTO - An animal, acting under instinct, attempting to find a mate and continue its existence.

Where is the malice? Where is the large existential threat to civilization or the world? You can post-movie explain these elements, sure. But in my movie experience I've never felt any sort of evil characterization to these creatures aside from being big, dumb animals. People also reference touching moments between the MUTOs with the nuke or the clutch being destroyed as "feeling sorry' for the female MUTO. If you want to make a character to cast Godzilla as a force of good, make his opponents full of evil and malice. Instead the film is one vague threat destroying another vague threat. I'm not drawn to the MUTOs for this reason.

To use an analogy: Make me glad that while the volcano killed a couple thousand people, at least it destroyed the alien invasion force.

[MekaGojira3k]

[BrollySupersj]

[Jorzilla]

[MekaGojira3k]

[Benjamin Haines]

[Jorzilla]

Just because the MUTOs lay hundreds of eggs at a time, doesn't mean that each of them will become a giant monster. Somehow, those egg clutches get down to one monster spore. Considering a lack of readily available nuclear materials, compared to their original Earth existence, I don't see how one egg clutch would result in an over-run of MUTOs. In fact, prior to their hatching the MUTOs sucked all radiation from a uranium mine, then each respectively ate a nuclear waste dump and an entire nuclear power plant while getting monster sized. On his way to SF the male MUTO had to stop and eat a nuclear submarine. These are eating patterns that don't point to a sustainable ecosystem. To put if even more basically: If the Earth was still habitable by the MUTOs you'd expect to see them walking around, yet clearly they are an extinct species except for a freak accident.

Less this debate turn into an argument of whether or not modern earth is sustainable to MUTO biology in the long term is not really relevant. I still maintain that compared to a lot of classic foes, their lack of malice or evil intent towards humanity and the world at large really hurts their character. Borenstein and Edwards said they needed to make a monster more threatening than Godzilla so the audience could appreciate him more. Okay, that's fine. There's a ton of inspiration for that. Then they include scenes that humanize the monsters or make them sympathetic. That is also fine, there are plenty of movies to pull inspiration from. Then Godzilla brutally kills both monsters, who's societal threat is never really explained ( I have said that it can be inferred ), and all of the sudden you have audience and friend reactions of "Was anyone kind of sad for the MUTOs?" or calling "Godzilla: King of the C*ckblock." etc. I never hear anyone say something similar for a King Ghidorah in Destroy all Monsters, Mechagodzilla getting his head torn off, Hedorah's eggs and guts being thrown around etc., Why? Because there is a strong sense in those movies that if Godzilla and friends DON'T succeed there is a strong chance that human life is going to end up a lot different once the new order takes over.

I've said it before: The MUTOs ability is incredibly useful for humanity. When I see Ford blow up the nest I can't help but think how useful it would have been to keep at least one of those creatures alive. Thrown them at Fukushima or Chernobyl. You risk having a giant monster, but you could figure out more of their biology and you'd at least have the worst nuclear disasters on earth cleaned of radiation. That's definitely a positive to these monsters, but it's completely neglected in the film.

[DannyBeane]

Also their cocoon stage takes a minimum of 15 years so I imagine it would be pretty easy to kill them then.

[walshiam]

[Jorzilla]

Pollution is incredibly more prevalent than nuclear materials. The smog monster also spewed acidic gasses when it consumed pollution. Hedorah was a clear and present danger to Japan and the world, and metamorphasized quickly over the movie. As Danny points out, the gestation for the MUTOs was 15 years. Why not get a "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" ton of them, place them around Fukushima and then in 5 or 6 years just dispose of them? By then likely they wouldn't be giant monster sized. Although the movie is very inconsistent/illogical on how quickly these creatures actually grow....)

As for the MUTOs searching food, as I pointed out, the simple fact that the MUTOs were an extinct species, barely sustaining in a highly radioactive uranium mine basically is all the evidence I need to prove that modern Earth is not sustainable to their existence for the long run. If radiactive materials were available in enough abundance to support their existence we would see MUTOs walking around this world, but we don't. In one movie the Male MUTO consumes, call it half of the Uranium radiation, a nuclear power plant and then an nuclear submarine. The Female consumes the Uranium mine, Yuca (some portion), and a few missles. In the short term could a couple of spores survive? Probably. Is it ever established that the world faces a new dominate species if they are allowed to live? Nope. You see in this thread vague responses about how it "might" happen or is "possible." Compared directly against Hedorah or even Godzilla 1998 the contrast is pretty stark.

Aside from those points, that's just one of a few examples I gave of more menacing creatures than the MUTOs.

[walshiam]

They thought it was a uranium deposit. It wasn't. The radiation emanated from the remains of the deceased monster and the MUTO pod inside of it. Once the MUTO was mature enough, it broke free causing the ground to collapse.