Discuss Spoiled Stuff

[Gojira-2000]

Was there any talk from the leaks that mentioned what era both Godzilla and the Muto insects come from? I'd posted over on TK that the Permian Age could be an interesting origin era for them, as there had been a mass extinction event at the end of that period of time; one which was notable for being the only time in history there's been a mass extinction of insects. In addition, there isn't an immediately apparent cause to the this extinction event, if the Muto's and Godzilla are being lined up as ancient adversaries, then perhaps they fought each other to near extinct resulting in some kind of cataclysmic disaster.

[Bluejira]

Don't think Snowden ever mentioned what epoch they originated from. Doubt it was evened mentioned in the script. Hopefully we will get a clue in the prequel graphic novel. I think the back stories to these characters are interesting.
Snowden did mention that Godzilla was naturally radioactive.
Permian extinction = radioactive event. Could explain the great die off and why his species lived.

[BrollySupersj]

I had hypothesized to myself it could the Carboniferous age.

[Bluejira]

Carboniferous would be the logical choice for the giant insects although they didn't die off till early Permian. In the Permian you had a greater radiation of vertebrates. Giant amphibians, reptiles, mammal like reptiles and early archosaurs were all common in this era.There was also an extinction event at the end if the Permian which killed off most of the mammal like reptiles.
Godzilla certainly resembles a mammal like reptile.

[BrollySupersj]

That wouldnt necessarily make him one though I think, and being a swimmer, I think he could possibly be a bridge like animal with amphibian and reptile traits. That's just me though. Hopefully we get out answer with that prequel novel.

[jrichreturns]

Okay this my take on it.
The Earth truly had a higher radiation level in times past due to higher amounts of isotopes in the soil before they became denatured into their "normal states", thus life had to deal with higher radiation levels. The age of the dinosaurs was ended with a large asteroid striking the earth, kicking up a debris cloud from damaging the crust and upper mantle. This created a massive cloud of radioactive debris and forced some creatures into hiding either underwater or underground. Godzilla's ancestors were probably some Abelisaurid or Tyranosaurid species located near water and basically sought refuge in the sea. That would still provide prey and shelter and when needed they could make landfall from time to time to raid for corpses. The extra radiation affected the creatures' cells and they adapted, getting bigger to accommodate a living radiological reactor(only way a creature could be a living reactor is if they were huge) and also their ocean-going habitat also accommodated such. The issue with square-cubed rule(you could argue with it due to the dinosaur paradox) is also null because of the radiological nature basically reenforced the molecular bonds of the creatures and they also develop graphene internally to help. During the few mya after the end of the dinosaurs a (the MUTO sound more like a bizarre arachnid-morph to me) type of parasitic Chelicerata evolves to fill in a gap in multiple niches in the short term and they hunt after creatures like Godzilla. The Earth's denaturing of radioactive elements and the constant arms-race between the two species drives them to extinction. Godzilla could be a mutation of said species that was influenced by modern nuclear weapons. What do you guys think?

[Bluejira]

Rich, I don't hold a candle to you for developing intricate origin theories.
I agree with you that the muto with the pulsating claw appears to be some form of chilicerata.
The flying one? I have no idea. I see that in the trailer and I feel like we have been thrown a big swerve.
Like your theory of the adaptions to radiation and the radiation induced mutations of the Godzilla species. As well as the parasitic muto. The descriptions have always reminded me of parasitic wasps.
I don't like the timeline or the lineage of Godzilla. The reason for this is that the four toes and fingers are such a primitive characteristic. If you consider him a dinosaur that trait disappeared in the early Triassic. Nearly everything else outside of crocs that had 4 to 5 digits that could be reasonably argued as an ancestor went extinct before or during the early Triassic. Also with the half life's of radioactive isotopes we should be able to detect the radiation in the K-T boundary.
Put your theory back another 150 million years or so and I would say you have a winner.

[jrichreturns]

Well, it's Godzilla's legs and jawline that are basically indicative of his saurian nature be it I believe very abelisaurid and the fact he looks very theropod to me. Him being a sea-going abelisaurid would explain his muzzle and possibly his behavior. His feet and digits? Could be a throw back trait like how whales and icthyosaurs went back to be sea creatures after their ancestors wandered on land. I doubt that these creatures were prior to the Permian extinction, because of how cataclysmic the Permian extinction was. Primarily the strains of reptile life that survived were so few it seems that dicynodont and a few strains of other reptiles that were rather small made it, even in the ocean the majority of sea life went extinct. The Cretaceous, though apocalyptic, was nowhere near as bad as the Permian event. I believe because of Godzilla's appearance, size, and it makes more sense(imho) that the creature be a later creature with some throw back traits, since we all do possess the DNA of our forebears. I do give you credit, it is a good hypothesis. Also, it makes more sense for a creature like Godzilla to be a survivor from one mass extinction instead of 2 major ones.
Btw, also the earliest dinosaur dig sites were discovered by people also looking for radioactive materials in the Southwest USA, also that's also a telling way of finding fossils out west. So it lends more credence to my theory and we have no idea what species could evolve quickly in a vacuum.

in all: I do give you kudos...

Also, I think the flying one is another member of the same species, however they are arachnid-morphs, probably a lot of the same features, but also have some insectoid features as well.

[Bluejira]

I was thinking more of the Triassic-Jurassic extinction than the Permian.
Your right all the primitive characteristics could be reexpressed genes.
The ambelliosaurid shorter thicker skull does strongly resemble Godzilla's.
Personally I always liked Godzilla's origin to be truly ancient.
My choice for a dinosaurian origin would be a herrerasaurus descendent.
The skull is smaller and narrower but the forelimbs are huge.
They also had five digits on each hand and foot. Though the outer digits were small.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrerasaurus
Nice discussion.

[BrollySupersj]

One other possible origin I thought of recently is Godzilla's species being a missing link Arizonasaurus type animal.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizonasaurus

I know this animal is quardaped, but there was another animal similar to it, named poposaurus: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poposaurus

So my own little secondary theory is Godzilla could possibly be a missing link between those two. A biped sail back early pseudocrocodile like animal.

Gotta say, it's fun to discuss an origin like this. In the past I've seen fans jump down other fans throats when even discussing the idea of Godzilla being something other than a straight up dinosaur. Nice to see some civilized talk. Cheers mates!

[jrichreturns]

It is refreshing and this is fun. I am a purist though and dig the fact that Godzilla is a dinosaur. Originally I didn't like the idea of him being an abelisaur, but it grew on me and made sense. Even the asteroid kicking up radioactive debris was someone else's idea that I listened to and realized it made sense so I assimilated it into my thoughts on his origin. Fun chat guys! You guys are really thoughtful.

[Ernesth100]

[BrollySupersj]

[jrichreturns]

Yet again. also they made a few* errors in G54 especially on how many million years ago dinosaurs were around.

[BrollySupersj]

[Bluejira]

[Diablojira]

SECOND TRAILER "DECODED"

Please read my previous plot summary (on page four of this thread) for background before reading this entry.

General observations: The trailer supports many of my speculations made prior to its release but with some important differences. The time frame from the disaster at the Japanese nuclear plant is now 15 years in the past rather than the ten of the draft. The train sequence wherein a MUTO snatches an ICBM is clearly present, and we can see this nuclear device hanging upside-down, cocooned in a bioluminescent webbing underground. Brody father and son investigate the plant disaster together, and likely both witness the escape of the male MUTO which had been in Serizawa’s care since the tragic collapse of the plant, leading to it being declared a poisoned, prohibited zone. The MUTOs electrical abilities are confirmed by the EMP pulse used by the flying male to knock the fighter planes out of the sky and it is even briefly shown during the clip from its escape scene. The draft mentioned an offensive ability like that of a pistol shrimp, but in this creature it is electrical in nature.

Let’s go through this new trailer image by image.

Cranston’s emotional dialogue as Joe Brody is heard while he is speaking with an interrogator. He and his son were likely apprehended while exploring the ruins of the nuclear power plant which is now the secret MUTO research laboratory overseen by Serizawa. Joe’s frustration at his 15 year attempt to uncover the truth is palpable.

We see a fallen jetliner, likely having crashed because of a MUTO exercising its EMP capability. Supposedly the male nurtured at the ruined plant has been fed pure plutonium and is thus probably more powerful than it would be by nature. After this interrogation scene, I imagine this MUTO breaks free and thus the mayhem in the present day begins. The escaped MUTO, likely no longer shielded in the confines of the plant, now summons Godzilla back from the ocean depths.

We see the MUTO—caused collapse of the plant back in 1999, the back of the head in the window is probably young Ford Brody, Joe’s son, at the Japanese/American school nearby. This trauma estranges him from his father until they collaborate to discover who really is responsible for his mother’s (and others’) deaths.

Interior of the crumbling plant as Joe sprints towards the containment doors to save his wife, the staff is in chaos.

We see trucks and helicopters heading for a dark opening to an underground desert facility, probably the place in Nevada where the unhatched radioactive MUTO egg was stored 15 years ago. They’ll discover their suspicions are correct that she has grown and escaped, and is now headed towards Las Vegas.

Vegas shattered by the female MUTO. A well-rendered spectacle of destruction.

Joe Brody tells us that “it” will send us back to the stone age. This might mean the MUTO that destroyed the power plant or Godzilla himself, if Joe has learned enough to know that he too exists at this point in the film.

Godzilla swimming underneath the aircraft carrier upon which Serizawa is stationed, about to cause a destructive tsunami as he arrives in Hawaii. The ships are scattered like toy boats in a bathtub. We see people engulfed by the vast wave he has caused.

A military team is searching the jungle. Prior to Godzilla’s arrival, the male MUTO that escaped from the Japanese plant/base has arrived and he is in the jungle before he moves in to attack the Honolulu airport, thus revealing his existence to the unsuspecting public. We see a Russian nuclear device covered with goo, so likely the missing submarine serving as a snack for the MUTO in this scene is now from the Russian flotilla rather than being an American sub as it was in the draft.

Serizawa now confesses to Joe Brody that the military has been aware of Godzilla for decades and has attempted to kill him with nuclear bombs, for which the cover story has been “testing” in the Pacific.

We see the H-bomb with a crude Godzilla profile covered with the international prohibition symbol. In the draft it was this profile covered by a stylized crosshairs, like a gun or bombardier sight.

Now we see the scene of the train bearing the ICBMs. Why are they in this convoy? To move them out of harm’s way? To use them to attract the MUTOs? Or are they being placed in order to make a strike against these giant creatures? I imagine that one of the MUTOs is hiding in that tunnel.

Joe and Ford Brody at the ruined plant site.

A quick cut to Godzilla’s tail in San Francisco causing havoc. His tail is rather whip-like, unlike the chunky tails of Toho Godzillas.

An image of the ICBM taken by the MUTO for nesting, suspended and inverted in a cocoon of sorts, probably beneath the surface in San Francisco, perhaps in a ruined BART station? Are those glowing spores or simply a means to absorb its energy?

A serious Serizawa. Either his father or grandfather was killed during the US nuclear attacks on Japan and he may carry a stopped-watch as a talisman indicating the time of the bomb detonation. I think it highly likely that Akira Takarada who was considered for the Serizawa role in the original Godzilla film but ended up playing Ogata may play the elder Serizawa in a flashback scene.

Ford Brody asking the question whose answer is surely “No.”

The winged male MUTO dives into San Francisco bay, its EMP pulse knocking planes from the sky. No, it is not Rodan.

The HALO jump featured so beautifully in the teaser trailer, wherein Ford and others leap into the San Francisco climactic battle between Godzilla and the MUTOs in an attempt to disarm that cocooned ICBM seen earlier in this trailer.

San Francisco in flames as the soldiers’ jump continues. A tribute to Tokyo seen thusly in the original film.

Joe Brody’s emotional shock as his wife is locked behind the protective doors during the plant disaster. She does not survive and he blames himself, until he discovers the real source of this tragedy after spending 15 years as a pariah.

Serizawa and crew examining the skeletal remains of the prehistoric fossilized “Jira” in the Siberian permafrost. If you look carefully you can see a MUTO appendage in the center of the image which seems to have split the spinal column of its victim.

Back to the scene after the MUTO EMP as more planes drop into the bay and pilots eject to save themselves.

A beautiful shot of flares fired into the sky off a rooftop to illuminate Godzilla—his “gill slits” are plainly visible, an original feature of this design.

A brief shot of the MUTO leg coming down, showing its electric pulse, most likely during the scene of its escape from the lab housed in the ruined plant in Japan.

An image of soldiers evacuating civilians in San Francisco as they witness a chopper overhead transporting what looks to be another nuclear missile. That does not figure in to anything I’ve encountered about the plot, so it is a surprise to me.

Ford Brody witnessing a MUTO attack on a subway car. Possibly the BART system in San Francisco?

Continuation of the train convoy scene wherein the MUTO in the tunnel smashes the previously seen bridge while Ford leaps to safety. This appendage, while looking fin-like, seems similar to the thing piercing the spine of the fossil Jira skeleton seen earlier.

Helicopter spinning to its doom, perhaps during the male MUTO vs. Godzilla scene at the Honolulu airport?

Ford’s wife and son during the carnage, vulnerable.

To conclude, Godzilla himself as seen by those fleeing. His bear-like muzzle apparent while his tongue shapes the classic “skreeonk” roar.

So, some things are unknown to me in this new trailer, but almost every image can be understood based on the speculative plot summary from my previous post, now refined for the actual film.

Looking good!

[Bluejira]

Nice update Diablo. Anyone have information on who the older man to Serizawa's left was during the skeleton scene?

[Diablojira]

[The Snowman]

*EDIT* I added a couple things just to facilitate discussion in the correct direction. That's it. Seriously- I'm out now. Peace!

Hello, boys and girls.

Guess what I got my paws on this morning? I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with Byenull Flipt.

I return baring delicious gifts: A couple things to consider about the trailer, the recently glimpsed Muto, and... Something SO HUGE that I simply had to come back ONE LAST TIME to drop it.

May you read CAREFULLY and speculate WILDLY. There will be no further clarification.


Regarding trailer:


I almost think that the trailer was SPECIFICALLY in response to what leaked out--- they confirmed all of the elements in the revised version that remain from my draft... and then EVERYTHING is different. You aren't ready for the Mutos, for the Masers, for how brilliantly this takes a Sci-Fi left turn that will usher in everything you want to see in the sequels.

Someone asked for a muto sketch a while ago. It's been sitting around doing no good, so here ya go.



Regarding Muto:





Time for me to take my place with all the other satellites. Do not fear, for they'll be watching you.

Well done, Jelly. All has gone according to plan. Initiate operation mood ring.

Goodbye, my friends. I hope this one last barrage was the one you've been waiting for. The BIG ONE threw me for a f*cking LOOP.

P.S.

Ernest, you're back in time out.

[Gojira-2000]

[BrollySupersj]

So....you're back Snowden?

[Gorjira54]

YES he's back! Finally more hints and stuff.

[Henry88]

[Godzilla21]

Snowmen! Kudos (or should I say.... Mutos?) on the script. Turned out to be quite legit. If this stuff you are saying is true..... Holy crap!!!!!