Talkback #22: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah

[kiryugoji04]

[Hybrid Gojira]

Yeah, the Gamera films are better movies. It's sad.

[jellydonut25]

[kiryugoji04]

[Jorzilla]

I've posted something about this before, but I'd just like to say this once more: While I think this movie is rather middle of the road in terms of quality/enjoyment (like 3 out of 5 stars, I think it sits right at 15 on my ranked list), what I absolutely hate about this movie is how much people are willing to forgive it's faults. In that sense, it's a little like the first Godzilla film where it's one of those films that's above criticism because of it's significance.

Godzilla dies in this movie. That was, up to that point pretty unprecedented (but actually a riff on Superman dying 3 years earlier). I feel that a lot of the serious fans of this movie take that emotion and start imparting qualities of this film in areas where it doesn't stand up to rational critical analysis.

Destroyah is in this movie, Godzilla dies, therefore Destroyah is one of the toughest monsters Godzilla has ever fought - Not actually the case. His win loss record is all losses.

Godzilla's death is emotional, therefore this is one of the best stories/written Godzilla movies - Not actually the case, as explained in many, many postings.

Godzilla's death is well executed, therefore this movie has great effects - Clearly not the case.


At this point I'm getting to the point where I'm finding Godzilla's death rather stupid. They couldn't think of a monster worthy of killing Godzilla, so lets make him so powerful that he literally melts down! This is not a quality that I can say about the Showa Godzilla, for example. With this Achilles heel the different Godzillas feel drastically different. According to this canon, the first Godzilla attack in 1954 could have been a Burning Godzilla, but in the Showa films I could NEVER see that happening. Recently I've seen people advocate that Godzilla 2014 trilogy should end with a Burning Godzilla. That's what this movie brought to the table in terms of Godzilla: If he gets powerful enough or whatever the hell happens to trigger it, he literally will burn up. There's expectations that this could happen to any Godzilla going forward, and there's no way to take that back.



Thoughts on this? Am I just being overly cynical?

[Gman2887]

[Hybrid Gojira]

@Jor - There are plenty of people who have, in this very thread, ripped this movie. GvsD is not even close to a sacred cow above criticism for any of the reasons you mentioned. The story is convoluted. The effects are poor. Godzilla doesn't even get to kill Destroyah (my personal beef with this film). There are some really good ideas (tieing the only weapon that killed Godzilla to a new monster and then still killing G off is brilliant) but the execution is poor. Destroyah is a very cool monster, but the terrible "bandai toys" used for the aggregates are beyond horrible. If anything, Godzilla's death is sort of a redeeming quality but it didn't have the same effect as watching him lament over Junior. I've always HATED how Destroyah is killed off. Godzilla should have killed him without outside interference. I felt cheated.

In essence, this movie is very middling because the flaws are outright lazy (matte shots and the Junior in wheels) and jarring (SPFX, the whole melting down at a temperature Godzilla should easily survive since he lived in a volcano for 5 years). Maybe people give it credit for how it ends, but if say a fair amount aren't above pointing out the flaws present.

[Jorzilla]

I'm not specifically referring to opinions I've seen on here, rather venting on opinions that I see other places.

[Hybrid Gojira]

[kiryugoji04]

I've definitely seen and experienced a lot of the attitudes that Jorzilla has posited. They're out there

And I judge them. <3

[planetxleader]

So me, Inferior Rodan, and Inui Takumi sat down on Saturday afternoon to watch this. We're showing Inui random Godzilla movies since he hasn't seen a lot, even though most of us dislike the Heisei movies, we figured Destroyer would be, um, historically significant (never got the whole way through because we were seeing The Raid 2 later that night and ran out of time).

I'll be honest.... the first, like, twenty minutes or so... they're actually kind of engaging. Everything before the title card is pretty intense, but the latter half of the intro and all the standing and sitting around and talking that follows is... yeah. But when the Destroyer creatures start making their presence known, there is some decent tension. The Aliens rip-off scene is still shoddy and shameless as hell but it has its moments.

It kind of pains me that there are actually a few neat-looking shots or cool atmospheric or stylish things in here (the rain during the tank battle, the shots of Destroyer reflected in the mirror and when he is being consumed by fire), amidst all the shoddiness. I remember reading the synopsis for the movie on Barry's Temple of Godzilla back in the day and being completely wowed (oh the nostalgia).

Anyway, I think all of a sudden I'm finding the Heisei series not as completely unwatchable as I might have previously felt (even though I did fall sleep through almost every film's climax when I first saw them). There are redeeming parts to them. They're still mediocre films. But I guess they're not completely horrible. Maybe.

[MekaGojira3k]

So I was watching Godzilla vs. Destroyah….and it occurred to me. Why didn’t they just use Anti-Nuclear Energy Bacteria? You know, the thing that completely worked in Godzilla vs. Biollante and kept Godzilla inactive until 1992? The only problem with the ANEB was that Godzilla’s temperature had to rise before it would work….which wasn’t a problem this time around.

I don't know why I haven't thought of this until now.

[DannyBeane]

[MekaGojira3k]

[DannyBeane]

[Jorzilla]

[jellydonut25]

I think it's only my bottom two or three least favorite Heisei films that I find the three absolute worst Godzilla films and totally unwatchably bad....and GINO.


But other than that, even something like Hedorah, which I don't like as a whole, has enough to keep me coming back every once in a while (which is probably how I know that I'm just a giant monster fanboy and my opinions on these movies among a general audience should not be trusted...I probably couldn't come up with a list of FIVE Godzilla films that I find to be completely without merit).

[Jorzilla]

I watched this in HD and the special effects look even worse. I clearly saw wires on the Destroyah and Super X prop in the flying scenes.

This movie is frustratingly middle-of-the-road, but for some reason I often see this propped up as the best of the best.

[Gentleman]

[Gojilove]

[Legion]

[MekaGojira3k]

I went through a lot of weird stages in terms of enjoyment
Up until the age of like...12 it was HOW MANY MONSTERS ARE HERE/HOW ARE THE FIGHTS
At around 13-18 I started to place more consideration on special effects, direction, score and acting
I think, due to my English major, in college I started to become obsessed with story and script.

The thing is, when I was in that first stage I mostly lurked. Now kids have a TON of outlets on the internet and the kids who tend to not think about what they say, tend to be the loudest. It's annoying, but they're kids.....although it's harder to overlook when people are 18+ and still try to argue points based on "MUH MONSTER ACTION"

[XvGojira]

So I watched this the other day and what point is there to Miki losing her ESP? Is it just a failed attempt at trying to do something with the character.

I enjoyed the Aliens rip-off scenes a bit more than I remembered and loved the Aggregate Destroyer flipping the car over twice. Kind of wished for more kaiju/human conflict interactions like that happened more often in the newer series.

[Jorzilla]

It was probably an attempt to show the passing of the guard, similar to Godzilla. I'm not sure if there's a word for it, maybe parroting?

This film is about Godzilla dying and being replaced by a younger Godzilla (at the end). Similarly, Miki, who's life revolved around Godzilla and ESP is losing her ability while a new person comes in to take her place.

[mr.negativity]