by John Schuermann » Mon May 28, 2012 7:38 pm
Well, sir, you stated that it was horrible execution. That's how I responded. HOW MUCH MORE REALISTICALLY SHOULD THIS BE? Are agents working for governments too unrealistic for a world with kaiju?
No, no - that was not what I was trying to get across. I am talking about the way those scenes were acted, written, and directed. They seemed like Omori trying to shoehorn silly 60s / 70s style James Bond type antics into what was purporting to be an at least somewhat serious Godzilla film. The posing of the Saradian agent, the silly dialogue and acting, I think you get my point. In fact, you kind of said it yourself:
"I mostly see it in the Saradian agent action sequences as an attempt to homage or what will become the attempt to outright ripoff western films in later years."
Again, I am only talking about execution of the ideas, not the ideas themselves.
To me it doesn't smack of that in GvsB. It seems like a natural progression since it was introduced in the first film. Still, I don't know how the Super-X can't work. It was a secret military device created, from what I recall, to deal with nuclear disasters or somesuch. I still think psychics and high technology easier to swallow than Godzilla himself so it does work in the established level of realism.
OK, again, here we are simply talking about what worked for you and not for me. That's cool.
I am willing to concede the point that the Super X II in BIOLLANTE was consistent with the appearance of the original Super X in G '85. If you remember, I made my point about the Super X in reference to my objection to the Heisei era films trying to have it both ways by combining silly MONSTER ZERO type elements with serious GOJIRA type elements. G '85 started this trend, and I should more rightly point my finger at that film for establishing it. Would you agree that the appearance of the Super X in G '85 seemed incongruous with compared with the relatively serious tone of the rest of the film?
Because Rodan bursting into glitter makes no sense in the established world of the Heisei series, even though it was getting absurd already by that point. That's the thing I don't get about your opinion of the first two films.
Most of the Showa films don't make sense in the established world of the original Godzilla in any way, shape or form, yet will still judge those films on their individual merits. It's certainly hard to imagine SON OF GODZILLA existing in the same world created by the original film, yet it is part of the same continuity and we both admire it. I would argue that the films need to be internally consistent vs. consistent with the series as a whole. If we try to connect them all together we will drive ourselves crazy. My argument is that G '85 and BIOLLANTE have pretensions of taking place in the "real world," with their more serious approaches and tackling of more serious themes. Again, my larger point is trying to have it both ways. I can take the sillier elements in SON OF of MECHAGODZILLA II because the films make no pretense of being thoughtful, serious pieces of science fiction.
That's really it for me, along with what I see as Omori's failings as a director and writer. The other stuff is all details, which we seem to have bogged down in arguing.
Besides, Godzilla 1984 is a sequel to the original Godzilla. That is the standard of realism. A universe in which Giant radioactive beasts exist and super weapons like the Oyxgen Destroyer can be invented. By this established level of realism NOTHING in Biollante exceeds that. The telepathy/psychic ability in the Heisei films really doesn't ever reach the crazy levels of idiocy it does in Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla anywhere else in that series. Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla, I admit, is more light-hearted, but there's nothing poetic about the film.
Of course, something like that last cannot be stated categorically. Is someone who finds poetic elements in the MechaGodzilla "wrong"? Of course not. I find poetic elements in the film - the idea that music can be stored in fossils or even living things is a profoundly poetic idea. The idea that one living creature can give up its life for another and transfer its life force is a profoundly romantic AND poetic idea. Not even remotely realistic or believable, but that's like asking a piece of music to be realistic or believable. MechaGodzilla is more of a tone poem than a hard SF film.
(Boy, I sound like I am championing MechaGodzilla II as some kind of work of art, when actually I have numerous problems with it.)
Godzilla vs. Biollante functions on the rules of the universe up to that point, and that's something you CAN'T argue against. Because Godzilla and Godzilla 1984 stand as proof to that point.
I would agree with you regarding G '85, so I agree 50%. Let me ask this: are you arguing that the Super X or psychic ability is no "sillier" than the Oxygen Destroyer in the first film?