Talkback #22: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah

[Goji 84]

[Benjamin Haines]

[Hybrid Gojira]

[kiryugoji04]

[Gman2887]

Kain,
while I think vs. Destroyah is a better movie than this place gives credit for, I don't think you have a really good grasp on it's strengths and weaknesses. It's a good movie with a lot of merit to it, but to claim the crew in the Showa series stopped caring after Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster? Son of Godzilla, is lazy? This is hardly true at all and the Heisei series, a set of movies I'll come to bat for any day of the week, is more indicative of an uninspired crew than anything the Showa series took on. (At least pre-Gigan.)

Yes, the Godzilla suit was fantastic, Destroyah worked okay as well and I thought the airport set was Kawikata's best since vs. King Ghidroah, but the Bandai Destroyah's are a sore spot. Junior on wheels didn't really work. The smaller Destroyah's crawling on Godzilla were... pasable, but completely trumped by Legion the following year.

The characters were okay. Miki was given some sensible things to do for a change, though I wish her powers leaving was followed up a little better. The characters are fairly interesting, but Omori always over-stuffs his scripts with needless characters and it works against them here.

It's good movie, worthwhile, but it has some major issues. It doesn't mean it's not enjoyable.

[Jorzilla]

One thing I'm noticing about a lot of the 'new' fans of the franchise on non-Godzilla forums (reddit and Facebook), is the over-whelming praise and support of this film. It's usually in the top 5 of most lists I see, and posters are even recommending it as a first or second film to watch now that Godzilla is back in pop culture.


Personally, I don't get it. However, I think it's one of those films that time is being kind to. People like it for the story, or Godzilla's death. The effects don't bother them as much because most 'old' movies have bad special effects. GvsD is almost 20 years old now.

It's similar to what I feel towards GMK. When it came out I LOVED how modern and edgy it is. But now that it's getting lumped in with the other masses of Godzilla films, and the special effects aren't as important, I'm finding it increasingly...boring. The inverse is happening with Tokyo SOS.

[jellydonut25]

The effects in Gvs.D are actually not THAT bad...which is why the bad effects in it are really grating; they just come off as lazy. Put something like the Bandai Destoroyahs alongside the scene of Godzilla being frozen or something like the horrible composite effects of Hong Kong alongside the shots of Godzilla's fins melting...

I liked Godzilla vs. Destoroyah at first I think because I wanted to convince myself I liked it as the last G film.
I'm honestly curious whether the same will happen for me with GFW. I'm pretty sure I like that movie. But maybe it's just my brain thinking, "You ought to enjoy the last thing you might ever get from Toho"

[Rody]

To think that the Heisei Godzilla films were once my favorites. I suppose what I loved about these films was primarily the fact that they were new to me. The 60's and 70's films were always fun, but they were mostly old hat, so in came Battra and Spacegodzilla and Destroyah and blew me away.
Godzilla vs. Destroyah, in particular, was once my all-time favorite Godzilla movie. Watching it now, however? ........*Sigh*......... It's kind of disappointing.

Like its predecessors of the Heisei series, Godzilla vs. Destroyah is a movie that truly wastes its potential. Godzilla is dying?! The Oxygen Destroyer has become a monster incarnate?!?! This movie should have been so much more amazing than it is - so why isn't it?
I think the biggest flaw of this film is its characters. The Heisei series in general doesn't have many strong characters, but in Destroyah particularly, our protagonists only exist to spout exposition for the monsters. They're nothing but plot devices; why should we care about them? ...And if we don't care about anyone, why should we care that Godzilla or Destroyah could destroy the world? Even Battle For Earth and Spacegodzilla at least tried to get us interested in the heroes. There's no sense of drama or tension, save a few select moments, and this film - perhaps more than any other in the franchise - needed a heavy sense of drama.
There are some good points to this film - as there are also other bad points to it:

For once, the enormous Heisei-Goji actually looks good; in fact, Burning Godzilla looks downright fantastic at times (but he's still as stiff as beached manatee). The Hong Kong sequence is pretty cool.

Was Kenichi supposed to have a crush on Miki or something? That's the only reason I can think of that he would suddenly agree to sign up, but then the two hardly interact again.

Destroyah makes great first impressions, but after that the monster becomes underwhelming. Like other Heisei monsters, the suits are just too stiff to portray convincing movement and action.
...And Destroyah is easily the WORST looking flying monster Toho has ever conceived. Tsuburaya would tear Kawakita a new one for sure.

Destroyah sounds impressive, at least. Seriously, those are some scary howls/bellows it makes!

Did Junior die twice??

There are still too many sparks.

The monsters' fight scenes are - actually a little embarrassing to watch. These are bump-&-beam fests at their worst.

Akira Ifukube's "Requiem" is the true saving grace of the film; it's such a tender, tragic piece of music which gives stark contrast to the standard action and military themes.


Overall, what should have been a grand-slam finale ends up only having about 5 to 10 minutes of film that truly do justice to the King of the Monsters in his closing chapter. My final rating of the Heisei series is as such:

Godzilla vs. Biollante - great
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah - decent
Godzilla 1985 - decent
Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla - mediocre
Godzilla vs. Destroyah - mediocre
Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla - bad
Godzilla vs. Mothra - bad

Godzilla's death scene is the only thing keeping me from giving Destroyah a "bad" grade.
So much for nostalgia...

[MekaGojira3k]

[Jorzilla]

Yep. Somehow that emotion has translated to Destroyah being an amazing monster as well. I had no idea a crab devil could somehow become a fan favorite of the younger generation.

[MekaGojira3k]

[jellydonut25]

AGREED. This movie is all potential, no execution, and for some reason, people claim it's good based solely on that potential and the final scene.

[Rody]

Well, being the last scene, it's what is immediately on one's mind exiting the film, and since it leaves far more of an impression than the rest of the movie anyway, I can understand why many people (myself included, once upon a time) would be impressed with the film.

Although, to be fair, I think there are still some effective moments of suspense in the film, primarily regarding Destroyah's eventual reveal.

[jellydonut25]

^I mean, I get that the scene sticks with you. It's why I felt pretty positive about the movie the first time I watched it. And the second. And then not so much the third. And then on the fourth I began noticing some of the film's problems. And from then on, I've never been anything but bored.

[eabaker]

It's very much an every-other-time movie for me. I'll watch it, be annoyed by the clunky plot structure, under-developed themes, and certain sloppy effects shots, and walk away from it feeling all kinds of frsturated.

Then, a few months or a couple of years later, I'll go into it expecting to dislike it, and instead I'll find myself caught up in some great ideas, some lovely little character moments, and an ending that can (though doesn't always) bring a tear to my eye.

Then, a few months or a couple of years later, I'll go into it with high expectations from that previous viewing, and, well, you know how cycles go...

[Dr Kain]

Just after 10 years of being back on the big screen, Toho decided it was finally time to put Godzilla to rest once more for a while. As such, what better way to send off the big G than with a movie that features his biggest foe yet, but also one that harkens back to the original from 1954.

The movie starts off with Godzilla on the verge of a total meltdown as he attacks Hong Kong. Parts of his body glow orange while steam surrounds him signifying that the end is near. At the same time, a scientist has created a new chemical he calls Micro-Oxygen, which has a heavily resemblance to Dr. Serizawa’s Oxygen Destroyer from 1954. A new monster emerges that has been named Destoroyah as it is a walking Oxygen Destroyer and has the ability to destroy everything it comes into contact with. Soon Little Godzilla appears mutated to look just like Godzilla and is now known as Godzilla Junior. At the same time, the G-Force has to find a way to stop Godzilla from melting down and destroying the Earth along with him as they also deal with Destoroyah. After a fierce battle, Godzilla implodes, possibly giving birth to a new Godzilla.

Overall, the plot is simplistic, and yet, it has a lot going on with it. The fact that Godzilla is about to go nuclear really helps keep a sense of dread throughout the movie as it is unsure how the movie is going to end. It also helps that the movie has a lot of call backs to the original with Emiko Yamane showing up and two of the main characters are her children while also having a monster that symbolizes exactly what Dr. Serizawa was afraid of happening just forty years prior when he first created his monstrosity. Miki is easily one of the stars of the movie once more, but her character seems to be underutilized here, which is a shame considering this is as much her finale as it is to the Heisei series. She stays in character, gone is her telekinesis, but it feels like so much more could have been done with her. It is nice to see characters that are related to the original’s Dr. Yamane return and of course seeing General Aso helps bring it all together. On the other hand, I cannot help but wonder if Toho should have even gone out of their way to bring back Professor Gondo from “Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla” and Kuroki from “Godzilla vs. Biollante” as having him be in charge of the Super-X III would have been a nice throwback. It a shame we did not get to see more of those two characters as they too had massive amounts of potential.

Another cool bit in the movie is the first time the Destoroyahs appear as the movie has a really nice homage to both “Aliens” and “The Thing.” There is quite a bit of suspense built up surrounding Yukari Yamane’s attack by one of the creatures, as it holds a very Carpenter-esque vibe even if she got into that mess by her own stupidity. She really deserved to have died there but as we all know, Darwinism favors the stupid. Finally, and also sadly, Dr. Fukuzawa is not even half as good of a character as Serizawa was as he was pretty much just a copycat character without anything significant to make him memorable.

All of the monster designs are impressive looking even if there are flaws to be found with them. Godzilla Junior is basically a smaller version of Godzilla without the huge spines and he kind of hunches over. He looks quite good and a vast improvement over what we had in the previous movie. Godzilla himself just looks down right incredible. He looks big and nasty, and the orange lighting to be found around his suit is nothing short of impressive. The head and fins are by far the highlight of the costume as they are a feat of their own. Whoever designed the face really outdid themselves here and it is a shame we did not have this quality throughout the entire era of the movies. I think the only thing to complain about with this suit is the lack of animatronics in the face to really make Godzilla’s snout feel organic, but the eyes do such a great job of conveying his emotions that it might not really be necessary.

Unfortunately, Destoroyah is where the movie kind of fumbles in the design department. The first form we see of the monster is a spider-like hybrid of a Xenomorph from “Aliens” that also seems to melt when burned in a similar fashion to the creature from “The Thing.” Nevertheless, this form does what it needs to do and give us a look at a smaller, human-sized monster that goes to show that even in a small form, he is a force to be reckoned with. Destoroyah has a flying form which is seen for a bit in the movie, but in the long run, it is not that impressive. All he does is glide across the sky without even flapping a wing or anything. It brings back memories of Hedorah, but at least he was kept up by the fumes coming out of him. Here, there is nothing to show what keeps this monster in the sky. The design is good though as it keeps up with the tone of the first form. Next up is his Crustacean form, which resembles the earlier one but he is big enough to match Godzilla Junior in size. Once again, there is nothing wrong with him from a design standpoint, and compared to past monsters, he does stand out in the design department here. Ultimately, it is the final form where this monster fails. The design itself is outstanding as he looks big, mean, and the ultimate villain to kill Godzilla. There is nothing wrong with that, but because he is so bulky he really cannot do much of anything other than stand there or fly. He can move his arms but I cannot think of any moment where he really walked around. Sure, he attacked Godzilla with his horn, but that was when Godzilla walked up to him to attack, not the other way around. Oddly enough, Destoroyah is also not even defeated by Godzilla but rather the military, making it probably the first time ever the military was actually successful in defeating something ever. EVER!!

In the end, “Godzilla vs. Destoroyah” is not only a great movie, but it is also worthy of being the finale to the Heisei series. There are several flaws with the movie itself, as we do not really learn the fate of our characters and the effects do feel a bit lazy at times, but the story has an impact and is well executed for what Toho was aiming for. Bringing back elements from the original movie made a great compliment for this finale and it does stand out as one of the era’s best. Destoroyah’s final form could have been improved upon in order to get a good climatic confrontation, but the suspense of Godzilla having a meltdown throughout the movie keeps the movie engaging. The ending is a left slightly open as we are never quite sure what it truly means, but it did not take away from its impression one bit. One thing I also loved was how Godzilla melted at the end as it was reminiscent to the original’s destruction at the end of the first movie. Also having a monster made of the very element that destroyed the original was another nice touch on Toho’s part. Lastly, Ifukube also did a wonderful job with the score, especially when it came to an updated sound of Godzilla’s march into self-destruction. Overall, I give this movie a nice 7/10.



BTW, holy poop buckets batman!!! Yeah, the BDs video quality is indeed down right awful now that I have watched it on a 1080P tv.

[jellydonut25]

I think there's a fine line between "homage" and "ripoff" and I think what this movie does with regards to Aliens/The Thing (though I never got a very big "Thing" vibe out of it, honestly) is a ripoff.

[Dr Kain]

[klen7]

i disagree. In fact i wouldn't even call Gojira an homage to King Kong.

I wouldn't say the Destoroyah scene is a rip off any more than the Planet of the Apes aliens in Mechagodzilla, both of which i would argue are "heavily inspired by" their "source material"

I do think FW had a Matrix rip off, and an ID4 rip off. I think GvM:BfE had an Indiana Jones rip off.

[jellydonut25]

^I just go by what's on display in the Heisei films. Laziness and shoddy writing.

The scene just calls to Aliens SO MUCH, with the things crawling around in the ducts/electrical system, and the military trying to track them down and doing more harm than good, and just the general feel...

I could easily imagine the Heisei team going "I know, we can have there be a scene just like in Aliens with the little Destoroyahs!" BRILLIANT! Brilliant! BRILLLLLIANT!

[Benjamin Haines]

Yeah, I think parts of this movie are really clear-cut ripoffs of Aliens. The Black Hole Aliens in Mechagodzilla are obviously based on the apes from Planet of the Apes physically, insofar as they're both apes portrayed by actors in ape masks, but that's really the extent of their imitation. Godzilla vs. Destroyer has a lengthy combat sequence that's very obviously copying wholesale action sequences from the movie Aliens in everything from the industrial setting to the editing to the presentation of armed troops fighting the infestation of creatures. It might not be as bad if the special effects in Destroyer showed any kind of effort in that sequence but it looks so terrible that it just screams cheap knockoff.

Plus, the aggregate Destroyers have the exact same kind of double-jaw as the Aliens, and the microscopic Destroyers even resemble Facehuggers. The plagiarism is really blatant in this case.

[Legion]

[Dr Kain]

So is there anything in this movie we can talk about without you guys going on tangents of what you don't like or don't approve of? You know, just have a normal discussion? Is there anything here you do like?

[klen7]

The desugoji suit!

[Legion]

There's a lot of stuff I like, but more than enough that's absolutely terrible.

If Destroyah had gotten an American theatrical release, it would have gotten laughed right off the screen,