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Kong Did Win • Monster Zero x SciFi Japan

Kong Did Win

Discuss the original series of Godzilla films! From "Terror of Tokyo" to Puppy-faced Super-hero, the Showa Era had something for everyone!

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Postby william newell » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:41 pm

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Postby kaijubringer » Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:02 pm

Last edited by kaijubringer on Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kaijubringer » Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:35 pm

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Postby musukogoji » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:23 pm

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Postby kaijubringer » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:57 pm

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Postby Mechagodzilla » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:42 am

[quote="234fanatical"]The 2 Larvae Mothras only won by luck[quote]

Sorry, but they won. The Mothra larvae send him crawling back to were he came from. They were the victors, Godzilla was the loser, he has lost quite alot of matches. It's sad to see that such a little thing emotinally disturbs fans. What crap are you going to pull out next.


My reason on why I think Godzilla's by far the most overrated kaiju to date.
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Postby kaijubringer » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:54 am

And like I said in a previous post, Kong "won", or appears to have won, at least to the degree of temporarily neutralizing the threat of Godzilla. KKvG, considered in itself, establishes that much. But why consider KKvG merely in itself, and not in relation to subsequent films? These were put out by the same creative organization, Toho, and constitute a series with a basic continuity. The events in KKVG should therefore be interpreted in the light of the series as a whole, not in isolation. The series establishes what Toho "really" intended. It doesn't matter if the makers of KKvG didn't envision any sequels. The sequels were made, not by another studio, not by foreigners, but by the same corporate entity that made KKvG. The events portrayed in these sequels establish what happened to the character of Godzilla. To wit, he wasn't killed by Kong, nor prevented from attacking Japan. In the longer view, therefore, Kong didn't win.
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Postby Mechagodzilla » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:02 am

Sorry, my post wasn't meant directly at you, it's just with fanboys coming up with this ridiculous reasons why ____ beat ____, I was getting a bit tired of it, and the fact the guy who made that post has a huge tendacy to repeat the same thing over and over again ''It was a tie'', ''Thet cgeated!!1'', or ''The mana will not kill Godzilla''.
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Postby kaijubringer » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:19 am

No problem. :)
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Postby musukogoji » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:44 am

Kaijubringer, the Godzilla movies are seperate adventures for this character. KKvsG is a seperate adventure from Godzilla vs. Mothra or Ghidrah or Godzilla Raids Again. It's the same character, yes. It's the same universe, yes. It's different circumstance. The circumstances have nothing to do with later adventures.

Listen, if someone beats you up in a fight. You lost that fight. That's all that matters But lets say you get into another fight later with someone else and you win. That still has no bearing on the fight you had previous which you lost.

Kong's motivation was to return home to Faro Island. He had to get Godzilla out of his way to do it. He succeeded, returned home. Kong won.

Godzilla returned/ was returned to the sea. He remained there, either of his own will or beaten by Kong until he was washed ashore once more in "Godzilla vs. Mothra". Regardless, Godzilla never resurfaced.

Either way, the events of "Godzilla vs. Mothra" don't have any bering on those in KKvsG. KKvsG is past. Godzilla vs. Mothra (if we're watching that film) is the present. It's THAT adventure Godzilla is undertaking at that particular time.
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Postby el-brazo » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:37 am

@kaijubringer:

> But why consider KKvG merely in itself, and not in relation
> to subsequent films? These were put out by the same creative
> organization, Toho, and constitute a series with a basic
> continuity. The events in KKVG should therefore be
> interpreted in the light of the series as a whole, not in
> isolation. The series establishes what Toho "really" intended.

Cant't you see the problem? You're not sticking to what KING KONG VS. GODZILLA obviously shows - Godzilla vanished and King Kong returning to his home island - any more, but instead you have to "interpret" and to speculate about what Toho probably "really intended" in order to somehow prove a point which is clearly not supported by the original movie (which ending IMO is much less "ambiguous" than it is often stated).

> It doesn't matter if the makers of KKvG didn't envision any
> sequels. The sequels were made, not by another studio, not by
> foreigners, but by the same corporate entity that made KKvG.
> The events portrayed in these sequels establish what happened
> to the character of Godzilla. [...] In the longer view, therefore,
> Kong didn't win.

And, even if re-interpreting the past through it's unknown future would be a correct way to determine what really happened (or was supposed to happen), how do you "interpret" the repeating pattern of the first four Godzilla movies, according to which the Big G is always loosing in the end?

GODZILLA - Godzilla is beaten by Serizawa
GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN - Godzilla is beaten by the military
KING KONG VS. GODZILLA - Godzilla is beaten by King Kong
GODZILLA VS. THE THING - Godzilla is beaten by Mothra's offspring

Why should there be a break of that established pattern in 1962? Now, of course you could say that Godzilla was not beaten in GHIDRAH, THE THREE HEADED MONSTER and therefore the previous films again must be re-interpreted in the light of the fifth entry ... but how far can you stretch things that way? Where are the limits of this kind of speculating? Are there any? Or will it just go on ... and on ... and on ... until you can prove almost anything you want to? :dunno:
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Kong Did Win

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Postby kaijubringer » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:45 pm

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Postby kaijubringer » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:07 pm

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Postby ebirahsmeg1 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:17 pm

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Postby kaijubringer » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:25 pm

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Re: Kong Did Win

Postby Buckaroobwana » Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:14 pm

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Postby musukogoji » Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:03 pm

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Postby anguirus23 » Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:53 pm

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Postby 234fanatical » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:40 pm

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