TALKBACK: Godzilla (2014) - (OBVIOUS SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[HannibalBarca]

Nah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJalvLdkiFM#t=39

[lhb412]

[sachiel]

[lhb412]

^Father/son becomes father/daughter. I don't see a big deal.

[sachiel]

[Gojiraknight]

[Gohi]

[MouthForWar]

[lhb412]

I'd like a director's cut.

Then we could argue about which cut is superior. I see two camps: 1) the director's cut is superior because the characters are more fleshed out, and 2) percentage-wise the director's cut has even less Godzilla. Theatrical is superior!

[HannibalBarca]

[Jorzilla]

I would only like a directors cut but only if it expanded on the background of Godzilla. Either through more Godzilla moments or more exposition by Serizawa.

Note: The rest of this post uses political hyperbole to explain my position. If you have served in the American armed forces, thank you for your service and understand that I am using this for effect.

I was readying about the fall-out of Godzilla 1998 in Japan's favorite Mon Star. Some of the criticisms levied at that film also are in this movie, albeit to a lesser extent for the simple fact that American audiences are going to resonate and respond to different elements than a Japanese one does. That's especially true for anyone that actually remembered what global war and the fear of nukes actually was (not experienced by modern audiences as they once were).

Kaneko's comments on GINO really rung true to this film when I read them, "it is interesting that the U.S. version runs about trying to escape misiles... [Americans] seem unable to accept a creature that cannot be put down by their arms."

Obviously we see Godzilla take some direct hits from the military, but he never ACTIVELY retaliates. This film is structured in a way, that even the military itself never has an opportunity to tango with Godzilla mano-a-mano. In fact, the film goes so far as to co-opt Godzilla by the military as a living weapon himself. Aside from military support that comes from treating the military as a recruitment tool in exchange for rights to film on actual military installations, do you guys think that an American audience would be OKAY with watching Godzilla waste entire battalions of US troops like you see in the Japanese versions? Given that Kaneko was the one making the comment, I'm especially thinking about showing actual onscreen deaths of military flying in the air, retreating, and getting smashed by rubble that you see in GMK, not to forget entire warships being wiped out in one instant. To an American viewer, it's one thing when a Japanese foreign soldier is killed, hell, they aren't constitutionally supposed to keep any troops above a small defense force. It's another thing with the boys flying the stars and stripes get needlessly killed after exporting democracy!

It's especially apparent on a sites outside of the fandom. After Godzilla came out, there was a popular AskReddit thread, which you can see . In summary, most of the responses are along the lines of, "Hell yeah, a bunker buster, A-10 Warthog w/ chaingun, a nuke, a sufficiently large bomb, etc. would have no problem killing a monster like Godzilla." This is contrary to what we see in MOST Japanese movies. Either plot armor takes over and the plan doesn't work, or we simply see those weapons being ineffective, e.g. the full metal missiles in Godzilla 2000 basically being bunker busters.

The thing is, if a film maker was going to make a PROPER remake of the original Godzilla movie, something that I think will eventually happen, even if it takes another 100 years, you would have to show the boys in red, white and blue getting needlessly killed without any sort of benefit. Like, the kaiju equivalent of the Vietnam War or the Western Front in WWI. Undoubtedly the talking heads on MSNBC, Fox News and CNN would have a field day one whether or not Godzilla is un-American, not unlike the backlash you saw when the Godzillasaur killed the Marines in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, despite that movie not even being SEEN by American audiences for another 7 years.

Maybe there's something distinctly okay about Post-War Japan that made the helplessness of humans in Kaiju films an okay element to show on screen. However, I don't believe this is something an American audience would be okay with, I mean, Americans are obviously undefeated in World Wars HURRAH! Maybe it was a smart business/shitstorm move on Legendary to avoid these elements. I personally think it's a staple of the franchise, and if I were in charge, something I would have liked to see included. It's just an element that I don't think the general public is really ready to handle in a giant monster movie. Hell, even most disaster and alien invasion films still show the military doing at least a decent job, especially compared to the average life span of a master tank operator in Tokyo SOS.

[ebirahsmeg1]

Um, okay....

[Gohi]

[Hybrid Gojira]

[HannibalBarca]

I had always thought it was the sound of the pilot slamming the control stick to the left, but hell, maybe I'm wrong. I would expect them grazing Godzilla's spines to have more of a metallic screeching sound though.

[jellydonut25]

I didn't quite think they hit the spines, but I could see that being the case...I don't know that it matters a ton either way.

[Hybrid Gojira]

[Hybrid Gojira]

Gonna see this tonight for the 3rd time at the dollar theater. I wonder if my perspective will have changed at all?

[lhb412]

^I almost saw it again last weekend (would've been my 4th viewing), but with the Blu-Ray coming next month I decided I'd rather wait.

[Rody]

Now that I have finally seen GODZILLA 2014 (twice), I have been taking my time to organize my thoughts on the film. If I look at GODZILLA from an objective standpoint the best I can, I would say that the film is good - not great, just good. I don't think it develops its characters or elaborates on its themes as well as it should. In spite of that, I really, really like this movie. It's not the movie I was expecting a year ago, but maybe it's the film I actually wanted without realizing it.

One aspect of the film I hoped for from the beginning was a significant sense of scale. I wanted Godzilla & his monster opponents to truly feel massive - and thankfully, this is not only present in GODZILLA, it's the film's greatest strength. The monsters have absolute control over the story, and they effortlessly command the screen when present. Gareth Edwards did a magnificent job at framing the monster scenes, so that their incredible size & strength is never anything less than daunting to the audience. The MUTO's are a sight to behold. Their design is, in my opinion, satisfyingly distinct, and always ferocious. I love the way they creak & groan just by moving, emphasizing their tremendous bulk; how they hunt the humans and ambush the train & the ships; and how they communicate and emote with each other, as well as towards Godzilla and certain humans. They may just be giant super-animals, but they have plenty of personality. Interestingly, I find Godzilla's character harder to peg. He no doubt bears extreme ferocity towards the MUTO's, and bears a certain air of an aged, but devout warrior; Gareth Edwards' analogy of an aging samurai really shines through. His interactions with humans is odd, though. He shows a surprising level of caution at times - namely, the Golden Gate sequence, in which Godzilla is slow to react to the ships and seems hesitate in front of the bridge. The entire scene plays out strangely, but it occurs to me that Godzilla is both curious and confused about these new environments & lifeforms before him. It's a side of Godzilla we don't often see, and it's rather nice. Both Godzilla and the MUTO's have fascinating moments with the human cast which lend to the aforementioned difference in scale between man & monster characters.

Ironically, I think the monsters may be the most well-developed characters in the whole film. Few, if any, of the human cast are given chances to stand out. Two characters come to mind as being as well-developed & utilized as possible: Joe Brody and Admiral Stenz. Joe/Bryan Cranston plays his part to the fullest extent, even if it ends sooner than expected. Stenz/David Strathairn fulfills his role as a stern, yet understanding military man. He's no fool, and his aims are proper. In contrast, I thought Dr. Serizawa was underused. This isn't Ken Watanabe's fault; there simply isn't much for Serizawa to do. Besides the priceless pocket watch scene, Serizawa's lines are rather poorly developed & arranged (his line, "But... We've tried this before!" should have come before the aforementioned watch scene, not after). The contrast between Stenz & Serizawa was well set up; but it didn't go as deeply as I would have liked to see. Sally Hawkins & Elizabeth Olsen did good jobs in their respective roles as Dr. Graham & Elle Brody, but again, they had very little to go with, and I wanted to see more of them.
That brings me to Ford Brody/Aaron Taylor Johnson. I'm not really sure what I think of him. I suppose the problem is, once again, Ford doesn't have enough to do that's relevant to the plot. After his charismatic dad exits the story, Ford is basically left on his own, and it feels like he is literally pleading for something relevant to do. His remaining anchor is his determination to get to his wife & son, but again, I think this was a well set up conflict which wasn't explored properly. Perhaps he could have had more near-misses in reuniting with his family, to emphasize his crisis, but as it is, he hardly gets any closer to his family over the film. I also think it was a severe mistake not to let Ford be able to disarm the bomb. His EOD status is his most explicitly stated trait, so refusing his character the chance to actually disarm the bomb in San Francisco feels like the plot has disregarded Ford entirely, rendering his existence moot.

Having said all of this, however, there are another couple of themes present which I admire. I said most of the human cast seems lacking in things to do; but perhaps this happened because what Gareth Edwards & Max Borenstein were trying to do is emphasize how irrelevant humanity as a whole is compared to the (un)natural forces of the giant monsters. Our two worlds aren't mutually exclusive; yet when the monsters directly interact with the human cast, it only serves to emphasize how helpless we are against the might of the MUTO's and Godzilla. Even as competent as the military is, everything they try is thwarted by the monsters. I find this remarkable because there is a distinctly Japanese feel to this. The story's setup is reminiscent of an American monster movie; but as the story progresses, the story is subverted into a very humble one, as opposed to the often proud American films where the monster is defeated through military might & scientific ingenuity. In the end, all mankind can do is sit on the sidelines and clean up our mess afterwards.


Some various other thoughts I had:
- the opening credits were really nice. It's sort of an old-school touch, and they set the mood for the film perfectly.
- The film moves at a nice, brisk pace. I feel there's hardly a dull moment with everything that's going on; yet the story never feels cluttered. The main cast may not have enough to do, but the plot remains focused & straightforward.
- I like the various shots of animals in the foreground of a scene, and how they contrast with the people & structures also present. It helps emphasize the man vs. nature theme: mankind struggles to maintain its footing, while nature just keeps on doing its thing.
- The introduction of Godzilla via film reel is one of my biggest complaints about the film. Don't get me wrong; I think it's a good method - I just think it's placed very awkwardly in the film. Up until this point, there was virtually nothing alluding to Godzilla's existence, so Dr. Serizawa's overview comes out of nowhere. Either there should have been more foreshadowing of Godzilla's advent, or the film reel scene should have been save for after the Hawaii sequence.
- Gareth Edwards is really fond of bait-and-switch scenes: the cutaways from the battles, the highway obstructed by the plane crash, the hotel hallway leading to the ravaged hole in the side of the building... He uses them an awful lot, but I have to admit I enjoy them.
- A couple shots I absolutely loved, which are easy to look over, are when the two MUTO's share the screen. The way the shots were framed, with the female dominating the foreground and the male soaring through the background, looked like an illustration I would have seen in an old-school dinosaur book.
- The bomb at the end was really downplayed. Wasn't it supposed to make the old bombs look like a "firecracker"? How on EARTH did it get that far out to sea??
- I'm enjoying the soundtrack a lot. No, it's not Ifukube-level, but there are definite themes/motifs/rhythms (sorry, my music terminology stinks) present throughout the soundtrack. My criticism would be that they aren't really focused towards one monster or the other, which I think would have made the music stand out more.

At the end of it all, we have Godzilla walk away hailed as a hero. Honestly, I think this ending is forced - what evidence does the public have that he's any less dangerous than the MUTO's? - but at the same time I don't care. Watching Godzilla walk off towards the sunrise and disappear beneath the waves gave me an exhilaration like nothing else. Perhaps the reason I ended up liking this movie so much is because it ultimately felt very nostalgic. The inspiration from classic Godzilla films is unmistakable, and in spite of its flaws, GODZILLA hit pretty much all the right spots for me. It's a satisfying beginning to a new era, and I feel optimistic for Godzilla's future.

"critically": 7/10.
"personally": 8-9/10.

[Hybrid Gojira]

This was my third viewing tonight. I went with a friend who had yet to see it. As a non-fan, he seemed to enjoy it quite a bit.

Each time I see this movie, I think I enjoy it more. I can't say enough about the mutos. They are very well executed and I really enjoyed them a ton. The sense of scale in this movie is incredible. I was able to really appreciate the shots of the monsters from the human perspective. Overall, this movie is a solid Godzilla film, but I have finally come to terms with the overall Godzilla design - I'm not a huge fan of it. The new skin texture doesn't do it for me. The snout is ok, but my biggest issue is simply how bulky Godzilla is. In some shots he looks muscular. In others...he looks fat. His legs and hips are too big. When seen from the side, his spikes are almost too small and his body too bulky. I do like the new spikes and his atomic breath is pretty sweet, but I just can't say I love the new look. It's just ok. Definitely Godzilla, but just an ok design.

[walshiam]

The best review I've read (better than 90% of so-called pro's out there).

[Jorzilla]

[jellydonut25]

I think the gills are a GREAT addition because they're just a little aesthetic measure that could just as easily have been tacked on by Toho at some point. But seriously, getting into the gills thing again is about as appealing to me right now as defending myself for my lack of unadultered love towards Guardians of the Galaxy. In other words, I'd rather be doing anything else.

[lhb412]