TALKBACK: Godzilla (2014) - (OBVIOUS SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!]

[DannyBeane]

[Hybrid Gojira]

I'm not sure you can really fault Godzilla 14 for being "unlike" Godzilla. When you look at the series as a whole, G14 doesn't do obnoxious things like forcing Godzilla to fly, making Godzilla "talk", or tail gliding into another monster. I LOVE Gigan, but let's not pretend giant cockroaches taking over Earth was Godzilla's finest moment. This Godzilla stays quite balanced, if you ask me.

The quips about the origin don't really hold water to me, since the origin here is basically what Yamane said in the first movie.

Would anyone really complain if a Toho film revamped his origin and used the one from this film?

No, because I'm afraid people make a very large distinction between Godzilla from 'Merica(!) and Godzilla from Japan for some reason when this movie gets that part right.

Toho goes back in time to screw with Godzilla and Ghidorah's origin and everyone accepts it. Godzilla 2014 is awakened by a sub and suddenly that's a kaiju apostasy? Really?

Some of these arguments don't make a lick of sense.

This isn't the best Godzilla movie and it has faults, but the above ones really aren't valid to me.

[KingKaiju]

[HannibalBarca]

[MouthForWar]

Considering how popular GvsKG and ESPECIALLY GMK are I think it's safe to say the majority of fans have been ok with Toho's tinkering of the origins (for both Godzilla and KG)

[Benjamin Haines]

[Jorzilla]

I seriously cannot believe you guys are now defending this movie's faults by claiming that it was honest about the picture it was going to be. This is frankly baffling to me.

[Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!]

[walshiam]

Benjamin Haines and MouthForWar have the most thoughtful and compelling views which all ring true. Those who find fault in Edward's take on Godzilla seem to have very little weight in their arguments considering the liberties taken with Godzilla by Toho. The public's and fan's perceptions in assuming the type of film they would get fall's on them, not Edwards. The same can be said for those whose EXPECTATIONS fall short of preferences.

[Gman2887]

[HannibalBarca]

[walshiam]

^^You fail to separate Godzilla '54 from the rest of the series. Those were two separate creatures. Also, you tend to disregard Godzilla's evolution by disregarding the stories and issues that defined his character. The issue in the first film was nuclear bombs and the misuse of that power. If that was the story of every Godzilla film after that, the series would not have lasted.

[HannibalBarca]

I honestly am not sure what you just said and I'm past the point of caring. I have my opinions, you all have yours.

[ebirahsmeg1]

In a nutshell, this was a good, fun G film, but it also had major problems that cannot be overlooked that knocked it down a few pegs.

Let’s start with the good points:

- I enjoyed the Mutos better than I anticipated (albeit they're a little vanilla in terms of special abilities/powers). I had never been impressed with them from the figures and stills I saw, but they came off much better on screen.

- Dan Cranston was solid as usual. I wish his character would have been the main focus of the film. Likewise, Ken Watanabe’s Serizawa was intriguing and brought life to character that might otherwise have been boring in the hands of a less capable actor. Likewise, I feel that David Strathairn is an underrated character actor and likewise breathed some life into a character that otherwise could have easily been forgettable.

- The fight scene (when they “finally” decided to actually show it) was a lot of fun, and the manner in which Godzilla finished off the female Muto was great stuff. I loved the when the female Muto first encounters Godzilla as his silhouette is seen through the smoke and mist….awesome stuff and one of the better Godzilla "entrances" seen in the entire series.


Now onto the negatives:

- The score…sorry, but this score just doesn’t feel like it belongs in a G flick….at all. And this was one of the main things my Japanese GF complained about...” Ifukube we doko desu ka?” (Where is Ifukube’s music?). It would have been nice to work in the classic G theme in there somewhere. Next to Hattori’s GvsSG/G2000, this is one of my least favorite scores. The music itself isn't all the bad...it's just bland and doesn't feel like a good fit/match for this film.

- Godzilla’s design….sorry, I know I’ve harped on this before, but this design just flat out sucks…whether it’s the GINO-Sequa dorsal fins, the long alligator arms, fat-ass neck, elephant feet, it just detracts from its presence on screen, and seeing it action didn’t change my mind about it (although it did move much more smoothly than I expected). It’s a real shame, because in terms of Godzilla’s character and personality, they did a good job in that area.

- The atomic breath was odd too…looked more like he was regurgitating water as opposed to breathing fire. But this is just minor complaint.

- You know, he’s received a lot of flack, but Aaron Johnson wasn’t as bad of an actor as I thought….he just had nothing to work with. With the material given to him, even Sir Laurence Olivier would have struggled. Same goes for Elizabeth Olson . Killing Cranston’s character off instead of making him the main focus of the film was a big mistake imo.

- At times, Godzilla seemed more like an afterthought compared to the Mutos...it should have been the other way around. Also, I thought Gareth got a little too cute with the artsy “let’s cut away before we fully reveal the fight” shenanigans...it was ok the first time during the Hawaii scene, but after that, it just got irritating and repetitive.

Overall, I enjoyed it and found it far better than most Hollywood schlock out there. It was slickly and efficiently made. However, it had some major issues that need to be corrected if this series continues. Where do I rank it among G films overall? I’d don’t know yet, and I’d have to view it again…I suppose somewhere in the middle. I had a similar feeling watching this film as I did with G2000 when it came out theaters….I was stoked to finally see a G film in a movie theatre, but afterwards, the spectacle wore off as I began to criticize some of the faults of the film.

As far as Japanese fans’ reaction…from what my gf and I overheard in the lobby while buying some G-goodies (during films, Japanese movie-goers are extremely quiet and will wait until the very end of the credits before leaving), it wasn’t very good.

The main complaints we heard from Japanese people in the lobby were about the score and the lack of Ifukube….and I agree, they should have at least included the famous Godzilla motif (that theme is to Godzilla what the Bond theme is to 007). Other comments I overheard was that Godzilla looked "ugly" and “too fat” (While I didn’t like this design at all, I thought this complaint was rather hypocritical considered how fat G was in the Ifukube series), how it was “too Hollywood” (my heisei made fun of the ending where Brody and his family were re-united, saying how all Hollywood films must have a “Happy Ending”), and that Godzilla’s roar was too loud, long, and unrecognizable (a legit, fair complaint, as I too felt the same at times). Again, these were just some things my gf and I over heard the most often in the lobby….I was too busy snatching up G goodies (found a couple of awesome books and a G54 Bottle cap : mrgreen: )

I haven’t really researched thoroughly in terms of written or verbal reviews in Japanese newspapers/news reports (again, 6-day, 70-80 hr work weeks don’t leave me a lot of free time for things like that), but if they react negatively, it won’t surprise me in the least……..in a nutshell,the whole “ware ware wa Nippon!” (we are Japanese!) mentality is still strong here as they feel that no foreigner could possibly understand any aspect of their special culture (yet ironically, they seem fairly confident in their abilities to analyze and critique other cultures outside of Japan...yeah, go figure ). It’s just something I’ve become used to, but as a foreigner residing here, it can still be quite grating at times.

Do I think this will lead to a “revival” in interest for Godzilla/mrgreen/etc.? Probably not, since this film isn’t made by “ware ware Nippon!” and they are critical to any take on their culture that's not done by them. However, I’m going to enjoy the short ride for now, as for the first time since I’ve been here, Godzilla-related books and souvenirs (sadly nothing significant in terms of vinyl figures) are everywhere at the moment….

[Hybrid Gojira]

[walshiam]

Thanks Ebirahsmag1! I was curious how Japanese audiences would take the new film. I expected that there would be some indifference because an American Godzilla could never measure up. Incidentally, I had reservations about Godzilla's redesign at first but grew quite fond of it later, especially after I got my Jakks Pacific figure.I do think we're all on the same page about the score though. Everyone here says the same thing. Desplat's efforts just don't measure up and ther should be something of Ifukube's score somewhere in the film.

[Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!]

Pretty run of the mill assessment I'd have to say. Outside the Godzilla design (something a lot of people liked), the negatives you pointed out are something brought up a lot.

I really do think calling Godzilla fat is pretty damn hypocritical, especially how chunky he was during the Heisei era. I'm not a fan of the score either, but I don't think Akira Ifukube's score would fit either. Maybe something like Reijiro Kuruko's score from The Return Of Godzilla or Michiru Oshima's scores would have fit better.

I'm glad you liked the Mutos. They were a real surprise for a lot of people going in. I think they stole the show, but I'm okay with that really. They were really well done, and look a lot closer to current Japanese creature aesthetics than they do Hollywood creatures (they had faces and personalities!).

I still am not a huge fan of the current roar, but eh... It'll grow on me. Nothing tops the 84-91 Roar in terms of fierceness and power and I feel they should have gone with that.

As for われわれは日本！、 I sort of expected that. Saying the ending was "Too Hollywood" is also kind of hypocritical. A BUNCH of Godzilla movies ended on a happy note.

As for what Japanese critics and media thought? Well earlier in the thread they were saying Hollywood washed over the nuclear themes (the same way a movie like Terror Of Mechagodzilla did?), or how the US military was the focus on stopping the monsters (the same way Godzilla vs Biollante, Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 93, and Destroy All Monsters did?), and even going as far as saying the US military was capable of fighting the monsters (lol).

It's like they act like the US Military of beat Godzilla.

[Hybrid Gojira]

[Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!]

I think the only memorable part of the score I can think of is the music playing as Godzilla came out to sea at the end.

Btw, what did audiences think of Godzilla being the hero this time?

[lhb412]

Personally, I think the Japanese kaiju genre in general has been too militaristic for the past few decades.* Godzilla '14 does better, in my opinion, by glorifying individual acts of heroism on the part of some characters who are soldiers rather than the big scenes of military folk saluting each other while heroic music plays, which is certainly not something you'd find in a Showa film but becomes common in Godzilla films later on.

The military fails to stop any of the creatures, brings a nuclear bomb into the situation making the problem exponentially worse, and the military even fires directly at hundreds of people only for them to be saved (accidentally) by Godzilla. Now, the soldiers in the HALO jump do something very heroic, but only Ford takes the initiative to kill the MUTO eggs, which no one else noticed or cared about. Serizawa and his views were at every point portrayed as superior to the military folk. All seemed pretty much out of the Showa playbook to me.

[ebirahsmeg1]

[Hybrid Gojira]

Ebirahsmeg, You said "it would have been nice" if his music was included. That directly implies you wanted to hear his score, does it not? Regardless, Your gf wanted to hear Ikfukube's score...I don't find that to be a valid criticism of this movie. And for the record, that's not an attack on either of you personally since I've heard plenty of people say the same thing. I just find the expectation to be misguided since there was at best a slim chance we'd get one of his themes as a little homage or something.

Put it this way - if I went to a basketball game expecting hockey...I'm walking in with the wrong idea.

I'm also NOT saying that Desplat's score sounded anything like Ikfukube's stuff (it doesn't). What I meant is that very few scores in general are as good as Ikfukube's...especially when it comes to Godzilla. But I actually prefer his stuff to many blockbuster scores from Hollywood.

[KingKaiju]

I just want this movie to come out to DVD now. I keep watching scenes from the film, specifically where he fires his atomic breath. "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" AWESOME!!!! Single handily my BEST film experience all summer. When his spines lit up, you know what was coming. That "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" was EPIC!!!!! And every time he roared, I thought I was going to go DEAF!!!! Trading in my hearing for Godzilla? F YEEEEEEAH!!!!!!

[ebirahsmeg1]

Hybrid Gojira, let me just re-word this in a way so there is no misunderstanding....I thought the music score for this film, on its own merits, . Clear enough for you? No ifs, ands, or buts. Whether or not you want to clang onto the "You expected Ifukube, so this critique isn't valid!" angle is up to you...you're not convincing me otherwise, so take it or leave it...end of discussion.