Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire

[lhb412]

We don't know what it's called, but we know Adam Wingard will be directing the next MonsterVerse film and it will feature both Kong and Godzilla.

Honestly, the last two films in the series have been, despite some fun bits, minor entries in the series overall... but still, whenever a new Godzilla movie is announced my feeling is always: "hope it's good!" I feel like the assemblage of Godzilla vs. Kong was quite chaotic, with a lot re-shot and otherwise changed during production. I think the best thing that can happen is if Adam Wingard has a steady hand on the overall story and can be consistent with it from production to completion. As for what new monsters Godzilla and Kong will no doubt face? I know everyone will plug in their favorite classic Toho monster, but I'd rather see an entirely unique original creature. The only thing better than an old favorite is a new favorite!

[Benjamin Haines]

Very exciting! Toho themselves confirmed on their official Godzilla website at the beginning of July that Godzilla will return in this new movie: https://godzilla.com/news/godzilla-vs-kong-sequel-announcement/

Toho Kingdom shared Legendary's August 25 press release about this new movie: https://www.tohokingdom.com/blog/godzilla-vs-kong-sequel-news-roundup/

In addition to newcomers Dan Stevens and Fala Chen, the returning cast from Godzilla vs. Kong includes Kaylee Hottle (Jia), Rebecca Hall (Dr. Ilene Andrews) and Bryan Tyree Henry (Bernie), and apparently no one else.

It also has the same director of photography (Ben Seresin), the same production designer (Tom Hammock), the same editor (Josh Schaeffer) and the same composer (Tom Holkenborg) as Godzilla vs. Kong.

And the official plot synopsis:

"This latest entry follows up the explosive showdown of Godzilla vs. Kong with an all-new cinematic adventure, pitting the almighty Kong and the fearsome Godzilla against a colossal undiscovered threat hidden within our world, challenging their very existence – and our own. The epic new film will delve further into the histories of these Titans, their origins and the mysteries of Skull Island and beyond, while uncovering the mythic battle that helped forge these extraordinary beings and tied them to humankind forever."

March 15, 2024 is the release date.


EDIT: Fixed the link to Toho's Godzilla website.

[lhb412]

Hmmmm... if the rumors about a new Toho film are true then we might be looking at 2 major feature films for Godzilla's 70th anniversary.

[Benjamin Haines]

^ That sure would be unprecedented, after their previous deals with Hollywood studios precluded Toho from producing their own Godzilla movies at the same time. If Takashi Yamazaki's new Toho film really is a Godzilla movie, then Toho must have pushed to get rid of that restriction when WB & Legendary re-licensed Godzilla for their next film.

I, too, hope that Wingard returning with GvsK already under his belt will make this new flick less of a simplified patchwork. I think the fact that it won't be forced through any knee-jerk course-correction in response to G:KotM will bode well in that regard. This time they're following up a movie that people generally liked. While I've enjoyed how each MonsterVerse entry has had a different director with a unique style, the return of Wingard and so many key cast & crew makes me think that I'll probably like this new film at least as much as GvsK, which is cool.

The plot synopsis promises a story that "will delve further into the histories of these Titans, their origins and the mysteries of Skull Island and beyond." I'm guessing that means our main cast of heroes will encounter a society of people living deep within the Hollow Earth ready to share their history. It would be cool if they found Jia's family and the rest of the Iwi people from Skull Island down there, having been separated from Jia when they were forced to flee underground to escape the island's endless storm.

[Dai]

Since the new movie retains the same director, DP and editor, we can probably expect the action to be on point. I can forgive a lot in the plot department if a movie offers up battling kaiju trashing cities in pornographic detail and we can actually see what's going on (ie. why I seem to be one of the few people who likes Pacific Rim Uprising).

Hopefully Tom Holkenborg will step it up a gear for the score this time. He's done some solid scores, but really seemed to be phoning it in for GvK, which was especially disappointing after Bear McCreary's labour of love for KotM.

[Benjamin Haines]

^ I agree about Godzilla vs. Kong's score. It's serviceable but wholly unremarkable, easily the weakest of the four MonsterVerse scores. When comparing Legendary's Godzilla vs. Kong to Toho's original King Kong vs. Godzilla, I find it's not a contest of which movie is better but an example of two complementary films from two different cultures made nearly 60 years apart with completely different styles, techniques and aesthetics that offer two wildly different takes on the same core premise. However, the music is the one area in which the modern film is just so drastically less effective than the original that it's a shame. I know it's an inevitably lopsided comparison when the original movie had one of Akira Ifukube's most iconic scores but Tom Holkenborg really invited the comparison with his Godzilla theme. The original King Kong vs. Godzilla brought the debut of Ifukube's classic Godzilla theme, which Bear McCreary had just adapted in Legendary's previous flick, only for Godzilla vs. Kong to offer a Godzilla theme that harks back to the classic theme for the first few notes before dissipating into generic and unmemorable background music, which unfortunately describes most of the score.

That reminds me of one broad reservation I do have about this upcoming sequel. As a lifelong fan, I'm obviously psyched about seeing Godzilla and Kong together again onscreen in another new movie, but I can't help but feel that this is going to make the very concept of Godzilla and Kong sharing the screen into something less special, and that it will retroactively make 2021's Godzilla vs. Kong a less special movie. Right now, across nearly 90 years of Kong and nearly 70 years of Godzilla, these two monstrous icons of cinema have only encountered each other in two movies, one in 1962 and the other in 2021. With the films being so different from each other in every way, each of them stands out by encapsulating the filmmaking approaches of its respective era and culture. However, that's only going to be the case for about another year and a half, because soon there are going to be three movies in which Kong and Godzilla share the screen together. One of them will be from 1962 while both of the other two will have been released in short succession from 2021 to 2024. One of them will be a classic Japanese film while both of the other two will be modern Hollywood productions. One of the Kong/Godzilla movies will present the monster action through suitmation, miniatures and many other forms of practical SFX while both of the other two Kong/Godzilla movies will present the monster action entirely through computer-generated VFX. All of the qualities that currently set Legendary's Godzilla vs. Kong apart from the original will soon become qualities that it shares with its sequel. Again, I'm looking forward to this upcoming sequel and I expect to enjoy it but I do think it's going to make Godzilla vs. Kong a less special movie in the long run, and it's also going to make the very concept of bringing Kong and Godzilla together onscreen into something less rare and less unique.

[Dai]

^ That's definitely a concern. GvK was tentatively the climax of the Monsterverse until unprecedented circumstances led to it dominating the box office by being the only game in town. With the Godzilla licence seemingly renewed, we can probably think of the next movie and the Apple series as the start of Monsterverse Phase 2. While it's early days to be guessing at the scope of the movie, the synopsis does seem to be billing back-story revelation over spectacle, making it sound very much like the intensity is being dialed back down for the start of another multi-movie build-up, and yet Godzilla and Kong are already sharing the screen again for it. I have to wonder if they'll be going full Lethal Weapon buddy kaiju for all future Monsterverse entries.

[Benjamin Haines]

^ The MonsterVerse is an odd duck of a cinematic universe. It all started with a standalone Godzilla reboot which didn't even end with any sequel tease or a post-credits scene, and Legendary & WB had been planning that reboot since late 2009 with an original release target of 2012.

The MonsterVerse isn't really analogous to the Marvel Cinematic Universe or even WB's DC Extended Universe. In terms of production, the first phase of the MonsterVerse was really just all of the years that it took to make that initial Godzilla reboot, and then the second phase was the three-picture plan that Legendary & WB hashed out in 2015 for a Kong reboot, a Godzilla sequel and a Godzilla/Kong mashup. Now they've moved on to a third phase with this new Kong/Godzilla film, the upcoming Godzilla/Monarch/Titans streaming series on AppleTV+ and the upcoming Skull Island anime series on Netflix.

While us fans tend to view every cinematic universe as a whole film franchise unto itself, they're really conglomerate franchises made up of multiple different film series. After Marvel brought together four different film series in The Avengers, they proceeded to make sequels to the Iron Man, Thor and Captain America movies along with more franchise-starters in Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man. Conversely, the MonsterVerse consists of just a Godzilla film series and a Kong film series, and it's going straight from the first big Godzilla/Kong crossover film to the second big Godzilla/Kong crossover film. It would be like if Marvel's very next movie after The Avengers had been Avengers: Age of Ultron. It seems unlikely that Legendary & WB will produce another Godzilla movie without Kong after this or even another Kong movie without Godzilla. Streaming service spinoffs aside, they seem to be taking an old-fashioned sequel approach by not treating the MonsterVerse as a cinematic universe and instead just taking it one movie at a time. It's like they really have merged their Godzilla franchise and their Kong franchise into one single shared film series going forward, and it will just be how well this next Godzilla/Kong movie performs that will determine whether they make another one after it.

While the plot synopsis of this next movie does promise some historical backstory revelations, I imagine any flashback scenes of an ancient war between Kong and Godzilla's species would be similar to the mid-film flashback in Alien vs. Predator, just a brief sequence with a character narrating over several trailer-friendly shots of dozens of Kongs and Godzillas battling onscreen at once. I do hope that they go full buddy kaiju in this new movie, with the characters following Kong and Godzilla as they trek around and into the world together. It would be the most ridiculous thing ever but it would tread new ground and it would help set this movie apart from Godzilla vs. Kong.

[lhb412]

Crew hats and shirts feature the the title "Godzilla and Kong," but it's all but confirmed to just be a placeholder. It does make it sound like a buddy movie or a romantic comedy, which might be a fun change of pace!

[Kailem]

Yeah I'm fully expecting them to actually team up in this one, just like Godzilla did with Rodan and Anguirus at various points in the Showa era.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get something along the lines of Kong encountering some big new monster in the Hollow Earth and having to come up to the surface to enlist Godzilla's help to fight it. Or the reserve where a new monster rises up and fights Godzilla, and he heads down there and teams up with Kong that way.

Regardless, I'm definitely not expecting the two of them to be at odds this time, which could help make this particular pairing of Godzilla and Kong on-screen still feel special even though we literally just saw them together in the last Monsterverse movie. This'll be the first time we've ever (potentially) seen them on the same page together throughout the course of the film, and that could certainly be pretty awesome to see them working as the ultimate giant monster tag-team!

[Dai]

The title is confirmed as Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire.

Title reveal teaser: https://youtu.be/1QLQCfw5lAM

Let the debate over the official pronunciation of that x begin.

[Kailem]

And only now do I realise I've been posting those updates in the wrong thread all this time!

[lhb412]

Updated the thread title!

I imagine more Hollow Earth shenanigans are on the way. Shinichi Sekizawa, himself into weirdo fridge beliefs like this, would probably approve.

We didn't see any, but I hope there are regular dinosaurs down there. Would be fun to see Godzilla looking down on 'em like chihuahuas.

[Benjamin Haines]

^ I second seeing Godzilla towering over normal-sized dinosaurs!


The "x" in the title seems meant to be pronounced as "and," although I like to think that it's also an homage to the various Millennium Series films that used "x" instead of "VS" or "対" in their Japanese titles. I think English-speaking western audiences are more likely to read this movie's title as "Godzilla and Kong," "Godzilla plus Kong," "Godzilla times Kong," or even "Godzilla ecks Kong" than they are to read "x" as "versus."

Still, with the movie being called Godzilla x Kong and coming after a movie called Godzilla vs. Kong, people might be inclined to read the "x" as "versus" just by associating it with the prior flick. Putting an "&" or the word "and" in the title would have been much simpler, but we can't have that!


SciFi Japan posted more info about this movie from the Warner Bros. Pictures press release:
https://www.scifijapan.com/godzilla-toho/godzilla-x-kong-the-new-empire-official-monsterverse-movie-title-announced-by-warner-bros-pictures-and-legendary-pictures

"GODZILLA X KONG: THE NEW EMPIRE is the thrilling fifth film in the Monsterverse series and sees the legendary Titans Godzilla and Kong team up to face a world-ending threat so terrifying that neither could survive alone."

"GODZILLA X KONG: THE NEW EMPIRE will transport audiences into the unexplored depths of a brave new world of spectacular new monsters, heroic adventurers, and awe-inspiring set pieces on a scale unlike anything ever seen before. This promises to be a true cinematic spectacle that demands to be seen on the biggest screens possible."


In the other thread, Kailem wrote:
"Personally I'm not expecting any more classic Toho monsters to show up in this (though I'd be happy to be surprised), but I definitely don't think this new ape enemy is going to be the only one Godzilla and Kong will be facing. One enemy alone isn't going to be strong enough for them to have to team up (MechaGodzilla was a case of extenuating circumstances), so I'm totally expecting a Godzilla vs Gigan/Megalon-style tag team match here, with another more Godzilla-esque enemy being the second big bad along with Lanky Kong."

Yeah, there probably won't be any other Toho monsters but the press release mentions "spectacular new monsters" so surely there will be multiple enemies for Godzilla and Kong to fight.

I think this organgutan-based giant ape lurking down in the Hollow Earth has the potential to be a truly memorable monster character. The MonsterVerse has excelled so far with its original creatures between the MUTOs and the Skullcrawlers. I do love the idea of Godzilla and Kong in a tag-team battle against two opponents, Gigan/Megalon-style. The teaser gives the impression that this mysterious ape monster has killed many others of both Godzilla's species and Kong's species in the distant past, so I wonder if he might actually tower over both of them when he's standing up. Orangutans aren't jumpers and a 200-meter ape wouldn't need to do any jumping in combat, as it would be able to drag Godzilla and Kong around like rag dolls.

[Kailem]

I don't believe it's been posted anywhere on here since it happened last year before everyone figured out you could still post on the boards, but during last year's Call of Duty Godzilla vs Kong event me and my buddies found this cave painting in a secret cave on Caldera that showed Godzilla fighting an unknown monster whose image was noticeably brighter than the rest of the artwork there:

https://preview.redd.it/s0miu4bfmdw81.jpg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=4c11ea425b2ed52a6a7145cc9461d45b99a6449f

They had cave paintings of literally ever other monster in the movie in another cave (except Mechagodzilla), even Doug! But this one is still, as far as I'm aware, unidentified.

Given that this was an official, Legendary-licenced event, and that we've had previous upcoming monsters teased with cave paintings before (namely Ghidorah, Rodan and Mothra in the Kong: Skull Island post-credits scene), I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was actually our first look at the other big bad of the upcoming film.

[lhb412]

Looks a bit like several Pacific Rim kaiju mixed together!

[Benjamin Haines]

Nice find, Kailem!


The first test screening of Godzilla x Kong recently took place. Shortly thereafter, someone posted a video on YouTube describing plot details, which Legendary inadvertently confirmed as accurate by having the video struck from YouTube on copyright grounds.

I won't post any of the leaked details here but if anyone is interested, here's a convenient summary posted on the Toho Kingdom forums: https://www.tohokingdom.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1928953#p1928953

If anyone here is on the fence about reading it, most of that summary is stuff that's likely to be glimpsed or even stated in the movie's first trailer. That summary doesn't go into how it ends or any character fates. It doesn't say much about the human characters at all but it does describe the red ape monster seen in the teaser. The story it describes sounds like it will be a wild viewing experience but it's not really anything more surprising or innovative than Legendary's other Godzilla movies. Basically it's the premise of X-Men: Apocalypse but with giant monsters instead of mutant people. I think this new film is shaping up to be a blast and I don't think that summary gives away too much. Put another way, if the plot turns of Godzilla vs. Kong were things that genuinely surprised you the first time you watched it, then you'll probably want to avoid reading this summary of Godzilla x Kong, otherwise you can go ahead and read it.

[Kailem]

So Legendary's SDCC panel has been cancelled due to the actor's strike in Hollywood, which would have apparently featured the first real look at Godzilla x Kong (though who knows if it would have been made public).

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/comic-con-schedule-panels-san-diego-1235662842/

Still, we got that teaser not too long ago and the movie is still a fair way off, so it's not *that* crushing of an announcement.

[lhb412]

Since Toho is throwing exact dates to the wind by releasing their 70th anniversary Godzilla movie two months early I'm gonna choose to believe GxK is a combined Godzilla 70th and Kong 90th anniversary celebration.

[Kailem]

Welp, as a result of the ongoing strikes Dune Part 2 just got delayed into Godzilla x Kong's March 15th 2024 slot, and GxK has been pushed to April 12th. I think Godzilla being delayed by a month isn't as bad as the fact that it's (at least for now) coming out so soon after Dune hits cinemas. That's surely going to have an impact on its box office if something doesn't change there.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/warners-delays-dune-part-two-to-2024/

[Dai]

The Decade of Delays strikes again. Shifting it a month isn't too bad, compared to the two-year delay for the first Legendary Godzilla or the year for GvK.

Plenty of time for more delays before next April though...

[lhb412]

I don't mind. We've got an entire Toho movie before then and... April 12? That's my birthday! How nice for me specifically.

I do think this is bad for Dune. That movie was positioned to be the big holiday blockbuster. Better for WB to shift (dump?) Aquaman and Wonka to early spring instead. But it's important to remember that the people running these studios are incredibly stupid.

[Benjamin Haines]

Dune 2 is a very star-driven film in terms of how it will be promoted. Timothee Chalamet, Zendaya and the rest of the cast are unable to do any publicity to promote the movie until the SAG-AFTRA strike is over.

According to Deadline's coverage, WB isn't moving Wonka (also starring Chalamet), Aquaman 2 or The Color Purple from their December release dates despite the strike because "Warners has heard from exhibition loud and clear that it needs these movies like air after the 2020-21 Covid closure." It is nice that WB is now more committed to keeping theaters alive after previously putting all of their new theatrical releases on HBO Max at the same time in 2021.

https://deadline.com/2023/08/dune-2-delayed-march-2024-warner-bros-movies-1235527300/

Godzilla vs. Kong and the first Dune were both released in 2021. Dune made $108.3m in North American theaters and $254.2m internationally outside of China, where it did just $39.5m in theatrical admissions, for a worldwide total of $402m. GvsK made $100.9m in North America (lowest of the MonsterVerse) and $180.5m internationally outside of China, but thanks to its massive $188.7m Chinese haul (biggest of the MonsterVerse), GvsK ultimately topped Dune worldwide with a $470.1m total.

A monthlong head start should be plenty of time for Dune 2 to do the majority of its business in theaters without cannibalizing Godzilla x Kong. Movies in theaters became much more frontloaded in general throughout the 2010s decade and that trend has only been magnified in the wake of covid. It's not unusual for movies to do 90% of their total business during their first month of play. In North America, Godzilla vs. Kong and the first Dune each drew 50% of their eventual domestic totals in just their first seven days in theaters. Heck, that's been true of every Hollywood-produced Godzilla movie all the way back to 1998!

Godzilla x Kong should be fine. The biggest thing potentially working against it will be its production budget. Godzilla vs. Kong was profitable on a $165m budget with $470m worldwide (2.84x what it cost to produce) but this sequel is probably bound to draw fewer people around the world, with the novelty of Godzilla and Kong sharing the screen having been cashed last time. Whether it's just a bit fewer or a whole lot fewer, a decrease in audience of even just -1% in North America would make it the first Hollywood Godzilla film not to top $100m domestic. Maybe GxK will pull another miracle in China and become the new biggest draw of the MonsterVerse in that market, but given how most other Hollywood titles have struggled in China post-covid, it's possible that GvsK marked the peak of Chinese moviegoers' interest in the MonsterVerse.

If GxK's global total is 80% that of GvsK, it would end up with $376m worldwide, which would be the new lowest total of the MonsterVerse below G:KotM. That would be more than good enough on a budget of $120m (like Rampage) to $130m (like The Meg) but that wouldn't cut it on a $160m-$170m budget like the last three Legendary/WB Godzilla movies. I hope they're planning accordingly and not spending as much to produce this next flick. The first Dune could get a sequel despite not quite turning a profit in theaters on its $165m budget because it was such a prestige project (nominated for ten Oscars and winning six) that was popular among people within the industry. Godzilla x Kong won't have that luxury in the event that it's too expensive for its own good.

[Dai]

"I do think this is bad for Dune. That movie was positioned to be the big holiday blockbuster. Better for WB to shift (dump?) Aquaman and Wonka to early spring instead. But it's important to remember that the people running these studios are incredibly stupid."

Aquaman made almost triple Dune's box office internationally, so this looks like the right move financially for WB.

My best guess is that how well GxK performs overall will come down to how insane it is, or at least how insane it looks in the pre-release promos. Over-the-top spectacles play well in China; their money was a big chunk of what propelled Aquaman to over a billion dollars, and likewise for the mid-pandemic success of GvK.

[lhb412]

^ True, but there's some other variables: Aquaman has a lot of negative buzz, with rumors of disastrous test screenings and multiple rounds of reshoots. That's along with a general perception of superhero movies being in a slump, with underperforming Marvel flicks and outright bombing DC flicks in the last year. Also concerning; despite supposedly opening a couple of months from now there's been precisely zero promotion for Aquaman. Casual folks probably don't even know it exists.

Meanwhile, Dune was a modest hit in the middle of the pandemic. Buzz for the series has increased, increasing popularity of its young stars and big ensemble cast (which grows much larger in Part 2), a lot of critical praise... in short, it feels fresh. Acendent, while Aquaman, a part of the old slate, descendent.

... then again, there may be logic here. Burn off the two high cost vehicles which seemed sure things a few years ago but now seem on shaker ground (Aquaman and Wonka) during the higher volume of filmgoing in the holiday season and save the next installment in the potential big new franchise for the beginning of next year's blockbuster season when the buzzy cast can promote the hell out of it? Still, I feel that Dune II could have potentially performed like Avatar 2 this time last year: huge sci-fi blockbuster sequel that nevertheless feels stylistically fresher than the oversaturated superhero and Star Wars films that became the default of the previous decade.