Godzilla KOTM... from the Criterion Collection!?!?!

[lhb412]

Svengoolie aired the UPA version of Gargantuas the other night, meaning that version is still available for licensing! Makes me hopeful about the future.

[Kailem]

I'm surprised Criterion/Janus haven't snatched it up yet, given that they've had the rights to the Japanese version for over five years now. I'm still holding out hope that we might one day get that Ishiro Honda box set from them, and it'd certainly be nice to have both versions of WotG in it if we ever did.

[lhb412]

^ I believe both Gargantuas and Godzilla KOTM (which aired a few weeks ago) are distributed to US television by Janus, and that must be where Svengoolie is acquiring these now?

[Benjamin Haines]

It's great that the US version of War of the Gargantuas aired on television recently, although I'm not sure if that indicates anything with regard to what version Toho might authorize to be included on a future home media release. For the past few years, Shout Factory TV and HBO Max have had the Showa Godzilla films (sans KKvsG) available to stream with all of the same transfers, subtitles and English audio options as what's available on Criterion's box set, plus the Japanese version of Rodan and the international dubbed version of Gargantuas, all opening with the Janus Films logo. However, since at least 2021, the streaming service Tubi has had the English-dubbed US versions of the original Godzilla, Godzilla Raids Again, Rodan, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster and Terror of Mechagodzilla. All of them are the same transfers that Classic Media released on DVD from 2006 to 2008, all without the Janus Films logo and all ending with the Classic Media logo.

https://tubitv.com/movies/287497/godzilla-king-of-the-monsters?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/287498/godzilla-raids-again?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/287501/rodan?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/287458/ghidorah-the-three-headed-monster?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/288674/terror-of-mechagodzilla?start=true


At the same time, Tubi has had the same versions as Shout Factory TV and HBO Max for Mothra vs. Godzilla, Gargantuas, Ebirah, Son of Godzilla, Destroy All Monsters and All Monsters Attack, all of the same Criterion transfers and subtitles, all opening with the Janus Films logo, with Gargantuas likewise being the international dubbed version.

https://tubitv.com/movies/620068/mothra-vs-godzilla?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/620071/the-war-of-the-gargantuas?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/620065/ebirah-horror-of-the-deep?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/620070/son-of-godzilla?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/620067/destroy-all-monsters?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/620061/all-monsters-attack?start=true


No matter what any of this means, here's hoping that War of the Gargantuas can get a blu-ray disc release one day with all three versions included.

[lhb412]

^ I had no idea different versions were out there streaming!

[Benjamin Haines]

^ Not for Gargantuas, though! The only version on any streaming service right now is the international dubbed version. Even the subtitled Japanese cut isn't available to stream anywhere, unlike Rodan and the Showa Godzilla films. The US cut of Gargantuas airing on Svengoolie this year is a new development.

Considering how the US versions of those four Godzilla movies and Rodan that are streaming on Tubi are all identical to what Classic Media released on DVD, I wonder if that's just a matter of Tubi already having those old digital files in their repertoire and putting them up to stream without any real consideration or oversight.

[Kailem]

Speaking of streaming, Criterion announced a few days ago that the first four Heisei-era films would be joining the Criterion Channel line-up next month:

https://x.com/criterionchannl/status/1800949881428902188

Sony still has the rights for MechaGodzilla, Space Godzilla and Destoroyah until next year right? Either way, potentially not a bad sign that Criterion might indeed have those much hoped-for plans for a Heisei box set at some point in the future if and when they can get the rights to the back half as well!

[lhb412]

I hope Criterion waits until better transfers of all these films are available before they do their physical release!

I know Criterion/Janus are doing a theatrical re-release of Seven Samurai (a new 4K restoration), so I'm hoping this bodes well for Criterion and Toho being in-sync, you know? There's been rumors they've been out of sync these past few years, with the lack of new Toho Criterion releases being the only real evidence to my knowledge (rather circumstantial!).

[Benjamin Haines]

If Criterion waits until 4K restorations are available for all of the Heisei and Millennium movies, I'm afraid we'll end up waiting until 2030 or later for their next Godzilla box set. Toho is moving at a snail's pace restoring the Godzilla films and releasing them on 4K disc in Japan. They released one movie in 2021, then seven more last year, and the only post-Showa flick among all of those was Biollante. Toho also aired 4K restorations of Megalon and G'84 on Japanese TV last year but those two still don't have Japanese disc release dates. No matter how much the working relationship improves between Toho and Criterion, I still can't imagine that Toho would let any company release cheaper 4K editions of any of their Godzilla movies anywhere else in the world before they've released them on disc in Japan.

Restored or not, I think the most important thing is getting the out-of-print Godzilla movies back on the market as soon as possible. There are new Godzilla fans every year who are just starting to build their physical media collections and they didn't have a chance to get the Kraken G'84 disc, the Echo Bridge or Lionsgate Biollante discs or the Sony GvsKG/GvsMothra set when they were still in print and reasonably priced. After Sony's rights to their last Godzilla titles expire next year, it would be great if Criterion could release a Heisei/Millennium box set using whatever transfers are available from Toho, which would hopefully include the 4K restorations of G'84 and Biollante and anything else that Toho has released on Japanese 4K disc by then. If it takes until the 2030s for Toho to let Criterion release 4K restorations of everything, I'll gladly buy re-releases of Criterion's Showa and Heisei/Millennium sets at that point but I don't want the Heisei and Millennium flicks to remain out of print in North America until then.

[Kailem]

Yeah it's weird seeing comments recently from people saying Biollante is impossible to get hold of now. I remember it *was* impossible to get hold of, but then we got that Echo Bridge (thankfully region-free, like Kraken's G'84) Blu-ray and all was right with the world! But now I guess it's just been so long since even *that* came out that the newer fans now find themselves in the same situation we were in all those years ago.

And damn, did that disc really come out *ten years* ago?! Time flies and I don't like it!

But yeah, if Toho have been moving this slowly with their 4K releases - especially of the post-Showa films - then I also can't imagine them allowing a foreign distributor to put out higher-quality Blu-rays than are available in their domestic market either. Isn't that basically why we almost never get any of the special features on our western releases, even when the Japanese ones are often stacked? Because they don't want to create a situation where their premium-paying Japanese customer base just goes and imports the American Blu-rays if they see they're identical or superior a/v and features-wise but were way, way cheaper?

Still, here's hoping they do start moving ahead with a Heisei set next year if and when they scoop up the rights to the remaining films. A Millennium set I could see still being a while off though, since don't Sony have the rights to Godzilla 2000 for quite a while yet compared to the others? I can't imagine Criterion would want to release a series set with its first film missing, even if they got the rights to the rest before that one.

[Benjamin Haines]

^ Echo Bridge released Biollante on DVD and BRD in December 2012, even more than a decade ago! It was one of the last Godzilla movies to get an English-subtitled disc release. After Echo Bridge's licensing deal with Miramax expired in early 2014, Lionsgate licensed the Miramax titles previously held by Echo Bridge and they re-released Biollante on DVD and BRD in October 2014. The contents of the Lionsgate discs were completely identical to the previous edition, even retaining the onscreen Echo Bridge logo. I got the Echo Bridge DVD when it was released and I got the Lionsgate BRD in fall of 2016, and then the Lionsgate discs were out of print by January 2017. For all of the newer fans who have gotten into Godzilla since then, Biollante has been MIA on home media just like it was in the 2000s. Still, it's just used copies of the BRDs that go for hundreds of dollars these days, with third-party listings for the DVDs currently $20 to $25 on Amazon and eBay (assuming those aren't bootlegs).

This is what Keith Aiken posted about Sony's licensing rights back in 2013 here on MZ: https://www.scifijapan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=19575&p=421209#p421209


(quote)
"I was able to check Sony's film and home video records for the Toho films they currently own... the info even included when the rights would be up for renewal. They have all rights (theatrical, home video, streaming, television) in North America and assorted other territories for the following titles...

H-MAN (In Perpetuity)
BATTLE IN OUTER SPACE (In Perpetuity)
MOTHRA (In Perpetuity)
GODZILLA VS KING GHIDORAH (Renewal Date: 2019)
GODZILLA AND MOTHRA (Renewal Date: 2019)
GODZILLA VS MECHAGODZILLA II (Renewal Date: 2023)
GODZILLA VS SPACE GODZILLA (Renewal Date: 2023)
GODZILLA VS DESTOROYAH (Renewal Date: 2023)
REBIRTH OF MOTHRA (Renewal Date: 2023)
REBIRTH OF MOTHRA II (Renewal Date: 2023)
REBIRTH OF MOTHRA III (Renewal Date: 2025)
GODZILLA 1998 (In Perpetuity)
GODZILLA 2000 (Renewal Date: 2025)
GODZILLA VS MEGAGUIRUS (Renewal Date: 2023)
GMK (Renewal Date: 2023)

Sony also has all rights except theatrical for...

GODZILLA AGAINST MECHAGODZILLA
GODZILLA: TOKYO SOS
GODZILLA: FINAL WARS"
(end quote)


Keith mentioned that Sony's rights to Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah and Godzilla vs. Mothra would be the first up for renewal in 2019, and sure enough, that double-feature BRD set has been out of print since 2020. Sony's Rebirth of Mothra triple-feature BRD set went out of print last year. Sony's GvsMG/GvsSG, GvsD/GxM and GMK/GxMG sets, despite including titles that were up for renewal last year, are still available at standard prices from Amazon and other online stores to this day (including Toho's online Godzilla store), as are Sony's DVD editions, but that's probably just a matter of time before each individual outlet sells out of its existing stock.

Based on all of those renewal dates, it seems like Sony's licensing deals for GvsKG and GvsM back in 1998 lasted about 20 years, while their deals for the rest of the Heisei films, the RoM movies and Godzilla 2000 lasted about 25 years. Sony released the first two RoM flicks on VHS in August 1999 and then as a double-sided DVD in February 2000 but they never released the third movie back then. Given that G2K and RoM3 were the only ones listed with 2025 renewal dates, and considering that Toho didn't even release the movie in Japan until December 1998, my guess is that Sony didn't actually license RoM3 from Toho until the year 2000 around the same time that they licensed G2K, with 25-year deals for both of them. Sony licensed GxM and GMK from Toho in 2003, and judging by their 2023 renewal dates, it looks like Sony switched back to making 20-year deals at that point. Even though Keith didn't list the renewal dates for the last three Millennium entries, Sony probably made 20-year deals for them as well, which would put GxMG up for renewal this year, GMMG this year or next year, and GFW next year.

Although the GvsKG/GvsM BRD set has been out of print since 2020, Sony's television and/or streaming rights to those two films apparently lasted longer than their home video rights, all the way through 2023. When those two movies were available on Pluto TV last year, they included the Sony Pictures Television logo at the very end just like the later Heisei and Millennium flicks. Both GvsKG and GvsM disappeared from Pluto TV on the first day of this year, indicating that Sony's rights to those two movies are now completely expired, and paving the way for Criterion to license them from Toho and start streaming them exactly six months later on July 1.

I imagine that Criterion would opt to release all of the Heisei Series and the Millennium Series together as one 13-film box set, as a bookend to their 15-film Showa set, rather than separate Heisei and Millennium sets. If they have to wait until after 2025 for G2K and GFW, I could see Criterion working on the rest of the set's contents throughout next year and having it out by the end of 2026. Biollante will have been out of print for ten years by that point.

[Kailem]

Damn, it's been *over* ten years since the Biollante Blu-ray came out?! It really is crazy how time flies!

I often procrastinate quite a bit when it comes to picking up movies, figures, books etc., but with that and the Kraken G'84 Blu-ray I made sure to nab those asap. After waiting for so long to finally have official releases with English subs I was NOT going to miss the opportunity to get them!

I wonder if Sony might still have streaming rights to MechaGodzilla, Space Godzilla and Destoroyah then too, since you'd imagine if they'd expired at the start of this year Criterion would have picked them up and included them in this upcoming streaming line-up as well? I assume this isn't some variation of "fiscal year 2023" or anything, where they don't count the end of 2023 as being until like halfway through 2024 or something like that. Either way I'd imagine there must be something holding Criterion up from getting full access to those three just yet, going by that list and what you said about the streaming situation with King Ghidorah and Mothra.

I guess I could see them doing a Heisei/Millennium combo box set, given that'd bring the number of films close to the amount in the Showa one. Though judging by that list and not having G2K or Final Wars be available until 2026, I think I'd prefer it if they just released smaller sets for each era so we could get the Heisei films sooner. But if they did combine them, it'd make sense to do it the way you mentioned, with working on everything they've got up until that point and then saving G2K and Final Wars for last.

Also, seeing that list makes me wonder what the international rights situation is with Mothra, The H-Man and Battle in Outer Space and if Sony owns those as well, because as far as I'm aware, those are the only non-Godzilla classic Toho sci-fi movies that have gotten Blu-ray releases here in the UK in recent years (and rather good ones, too!) via Eureka under their Masters of Cinema label. I'd imagine they probably do and that made for some situation where they were easy to license as a result. It's a shame those are the exception rather than the rule and others like Matango and Space Amoeba etc. have never gotten any sort of releases over here, but that's always been pretty much par for the course (though at least things are a little better on that front now than they were back in the day).

[Benjamin Haines]

^ The last three Heisei Godzilla movies, all three Rebirth of Mothra flicks and the Millennium Godzilla films (sans G2000) are all still on Pluto TV with the Sony Pictures Television logo at the end of each of them. They're still part of the Pluto TV Godzilla Channel's 24/7 rotation and they're still available to stream on demand.

Apparently the renewal dates that Keith Aiken obtained for Sony's Godzilla movies didn't apply to the different types of rights all at the same time. GvsKG and GvsMothra were listed with 2019 renewal dates, then the BRD set containing those two movies went out of print in 2020, but they were both still part of the Pluto TV package last year, all the way through December 31, each with the Sony Pictures Television logo at the very end. It's possible that the listed renewal dates pertained to the home video rights and that Sony will continue to hold the TV and/or streaming rights for several more years to all of the movies on that list with 2023 renewal dates. If that's the case, Criterion probably decided to just get the TV/streaming rights to the first four Heisei Godzilla movies ASAP instead of waiting years to debut them all on the Criterion Channel together. They might actually release a Heisei or Heisei/Millennium BRD box set long before they get the TV/streaming rights to the rest of them.

Only the US cut of G2000 had been available on Pluto TV when the Godzilla Channel launched last year, then it was removed back in October leading up to the Fathom Events theatrical screening of the Japanese cut of G2000 on November 1, and then they just never bothered to add the movie back to Pluto TV since then. I think that's just an oversight that has nothing to do with Sony's rights to the movie.

[Benjamin Haines]

Criterion will re-release G'54 on November 5 as a two-disc 4K UHD + blu-ray set!

https://www.criterion.com/films/27755-godzilla
https://www.scifijapan.com/godzilla-toho/godzilla-1954-4k-from-criterion-in-november

The "new 4K digital restoration" is undoubtedly the same transfer that Toho has released in Japan on both 4K UHD and regular blu-ray disc. The big question, which neither the Criterion product page nor the Criterion press release on SciFi Japan answers, is whether the presentation of G'54 on the blu-ray disc in this set will be identical to the 2012 release and the 2019 box set with the same transfer that Criterion previously released or if it will be a 1080p transfer of the new 4K digital restoration. I really hope it's the latter.

[lhb412]

You know, Godzilla has essentially been the herald of me updating home video formats. With this release and Minus One I suppose I'll get a 4K player by the end of the year!

[Dai]

I suppose it makes commercial sense for them to go for the original movie again, but out of all the Godzilla movies that Criterion have released, it's probably the one least in need of a better edition. I would be very interested in a set of the 64/65 movies that don't have the awful splice marks from the current blu-rays.

[Benjamin Haines]

I do wonder if Criterion would release standalone 4K-restored editions of any other Godzilla movies, or if the original is still the only one they'll release on disc outside of a box set.

[Benjamin Haines]

So, even though Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah and Godzilla vs. Mothra disappeared from Pluto TV as of the start of 2024, it actually didn't take years longer for the rest of the Heisei and Millennium films to stop running on Pluto TV as well. They're all gone as of this month.

Even Pluto TV's on-demand selection is now down to just the Criterion-licensed Showa Godzilla films (everything but KKvsG), Rodan, War of the Gargantuas and the Rebirth of Mothra trilogy.

https://pluto.tv/us/on-demand/64fbb046bd341e0008209128/64934343d2c47c000844c934

This could simply be a case of Pluto TV not renewing their license to stream those movies from Sony Pictures Television. Alternatively, this could mean that Sony no longer holds the streaming rights to those movies and they've reverted to Toho, in which case Criterion might actually be able to license them for the Criterion Channel subscription service in the near future.

[lhb412]

I think Shout Factory has some hand in this, too. That's another wrinkle in the negotiating of these titles for the Godzilla channel: three US studios plus Toho!

[Benjamin Haines]

^ Are you sure? Those 14 Showa Godzilla movies, Rodan and WotG are available to stream on Shout's website and TokuSHOUTsu channels but they're also available to stream on Tubi, Max and Pluto TV. I figured that Shout and those other streaming services all licensed non-exclusive streaming rights to those movies directly from Janus/Criterion. They all open with the Janus Films logo on every platform but none of them include a Shout or TokuSHOUTsu logo, not even on Shout's own platforms.

[lhb412]

Shout has some sort of streaming claim to some Showa movies which started before the Criterion release even happened. They also share some programming across their free channels, with Godzilla occasionally popping up on Tokushoutsu... and I think they may have even shown MST3K Gamera episodes on the Godzilla channel at some point.

[Benjamin Haines]

Hm, it's true that Shout acquired the TV/streaming rights to all of Classic Media's Godzilla titles back in 2014 when they acquired Westchester Films. THR reported on that: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/shout-factory-acquires-westchester-films-736617/

SciFi Japan previously reported in 2011 that Westchester Films had obtained the TV/streaming rights to those movies by sub-licensing them from Classic Media, which had led to those movies returning to air on TCM and AMC back then: http://www.scifijapan.com/articles/2011/11/18/godzilla-from-the-criterion-collection-2/

That same SciFi Japan article mentioned that Criterion had to work with Toho, Classic Media and Westchester when they first released G'54 back then but it didn't mention Shout, as that was years before they acquired Westchester. Classic Media was subsequently acquired by Dreamworks Animation in 2012 and rebranded as Dreamworks Classics, although they still re-released their two-disc DVD of G'54 with new cover art under the Classic Media label in May 2014 to capitalize on the release of the first Legendary film: https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Godzilla-King-of-the-Monsters-DVD/82807/

I'd have thought that Shout/Westchester's rights to those seven Godzilla movies would have ended when Classic Media's license expired sometime after 2014, since Westchester had sub-licensed those rights from Classic Media. When those seven movies (plus Son, DAM, Megalon and GvsMG) first showed up on the Starz streaming service with the Janus Films logo in 2017, they didn't include Shout or Classic Media logos. The book pages in Criterion's 2019 Godzilla box set likewise don't mention Classic Media or Dreamworks Classics, only Toho and Universal (for KKvsG).

Still, if Criterion's current TV/streaming rights to any of these movies had to go through Shout via Classic Media from the start, that would explain why Rodan and War of the Gargantuas have also been streaming with the Janus Films logo since 2017 on all of the same platforms as the Showa Godzilla films.

[lhb412]

And now RoG, Bio, and GvKG are on MAX. Old transfers, new subtitles, Janus or Criterion branding on all.

Watching King Ghidorah with mire accurate subs is throwing me for a loop!

[Kailem]

At least no matter how many subtitle changes we get over the years and how many different versions, "take that you dinosaur!" can never be taken away from us!