Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Dr Kain]

Doens't matter what they say, in WB's eyes it was a success.

[mr.negativity]

[mr.negativity]

[O.Supreme]

Well the wait is finally over. I finally for to see this thing at the bargain theater in m area and well....I just don't know... I could defend Man of Steel against its critics because I do genuinely like it but this is just... I'm still shaking my head, not really sure what to think.

From the beginning, the thing that bothered me was... during the scenes from MoS from Bruce Wayne's point of view... When the Alien Death machine starts destroying Downtown Metropolis, and has been there presumably for several minuets, if not hours, do you really have to wait for Bruce Wayne to show up to tell you "Evacuate the Building". I think that would have been done as the Alien Death machine was first spotted. I cant imagine these guys having a board meeting whilst people, cars, buildings etc.. are hurled up & down to their deaths in the background until it got "too close"

The way supposedly Lex manipulated Batman & Superman to fight was laughably bad. But I see much has been said on the matter I don't need to get into.

Lastly, just an observation more than a complaint... During Batman's dream of the Apocalyptic future, sure the Omega sign is supposed to be a reference to Darkseid. I get that. But all the flying creatures look more like The Reach http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Beetle, rather than Parademons . Did anyone else get that sense? Just curious.

Up until now I have seen every MCU film, *most* non Disney Marvel films, and all DC films in the theater. Moving forward however, because of this film, I now have chosen to be selective even when it comes to big budget Superhero films. They will no longer be a guaranteed theater watch for me. That makes me kind of sad.

[mr.negativity]

Jon Stewart makes an appearance!*

[O.Supreme]

So this is available now digitally, however you have to wait until 7/19 to get it on DVD/Blu Ray. From what I've seen the "R" rating seems pointless. I mean basically because of one "F" bomb dropped by Bruce Wayne, a shot of Affleck's butt, and a little more blood in some of the fights, this gets an "R"? I mean, why? I totally understand why Deadpool got an "R", it was the nature of the material, and audiences responded well, but for the amount of plot that was cut from BvS theatrical release, you would think you could add all that back in, and still keep it PG-13 for a "directors cut" which is not uncommon. BvS doesn't need to be "R", I guess the new direction being taken in the DCU hopefully will make thigns better, but the more I hear, the more messy and convoluted thigns keep getting, constantly changing filming schedules, and release dates...this is just one big cluster. As a fan of DC comics in the past (basically all I follow now are the animated films) , I hope this sorts itself out...but as of not it does not look good.

[mr.negativity]

[Dai]

Watching the Ultimate Edition cut of BvS was a curious experience. Going through it, I found I couldn't really pick out which were the new scenes (I only saw the theatrical cut at the cinema once, which is probably part of it). Eventually I realised that, rather than providing overt game-changers, distracting asides or pointless scene extensions, the additional footage just slotted seamlessly into the story, quietly fixing sub-plots and character beats that were broken at the cinema. In other words, the extended 3 hour version is Batman v Superman as it was always intended. Does that make it a Civil War beater now? No, it's still a flawed movie, and its not going to change your fundamental opinion of it, but it is a significantly less flawed movie in this form.

At the cinema, Clark's civilian scenes felt disjointed and perfunctory. Now they're built into a more rounded and interesting investigation. Likewise, Lois's seemingly pointless investigation into the bullet is now handled better, and feels more relevant. Lex... well, there's no fixing how miscast he was, but we do gain a greater sense of just how wide and deep his manipulation of events runs, and the long game he's been playing; he casts more of a looming shadow. Then there are numerous smaller fixes, like dialogue that explains why Superman is so quick to give up on trying to reason with Batman.

The only new issue with this cut is that the already sparse action scenes are now spread even thinner. Aside from the rush of fight scenes in the third act, the Ultimate Edition feels more like a political drama than an action movie.

[Benjamin Haines]

I finally saw this last night. I didn't catch Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice when it was in theaters. I rented the three-hour, R-rated "Ultimate Edition" and (aside from the blood) I have no idea of what footage was left out of the widely-panned theatrical cut.

I thought the movie was decently entertaining, certainly not one of the worst superhero movies I've ever seen, but it is definitely a colossal mess.

*spoilers ahead*

So much of what's unnecessary and/or redundant in this film is rooted in the fact that it's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and not Batman & Superman: World's Finest. There are so many scenes that seem to exist solely to reiterate one of three points: 1) Alfred notices how Batman has grown jaded and brutal over time, 2) Superman feels uncertain about his role in the world, and 3) Batman and Superman will be fighting each other soon. The best part of the movie begins immediately after the titular heroes resolve their differences in the third act. From there we get to see Batman fight through a warehouse of bad guys to rescue Martha Kent as Superman and Wonder Woman take on the Kryptonian Orc. Even discounting the trailers that spelled out the character trajectories from beginning to end, there was never any mystery about Ms. Prince's identity or the fact that the heroes would end up joining forces. I hate to say it but if Warner Bros. insisted on making this a Batman-heavy precursor to Justice League just to placate shareholders who want them to compete with Marvel, they should have just adapted Joss Whedon's structural template for The Avengers and had the heroes get through all of their interpersonal conflict by the halfway point of the film. What's the point in positing them as adversaries for the vast majority of the movie's runtime? What's the point in having Superman die at the end of movie #2 in a would-be cinematic universe, especially when his inevitable resurrection is blatantly foreshadowed at his funeral in this movie, and ESPECIALLY when this movie just went so far out of its way to tease Justice League and other future DC films?

Good lord, the Justice League preview scenes were downright cringeworthy. The out-of-nowhere Flash cameo in the middle of the movie felt like the ultimate deus ex machina to lead Batman to Lois Lane. Putting it immediately after Batman's second nightmare sequence just made things feel even more muddled, and now the JL team has an unsubtle and unnecessary bit of Doctor Who-esque circular time-travel in its foundation. That's not the worst part, though. The worst part is when Batman literally emails Wonder Woman a photo from her upcoming prequel along with video teasers for The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg, which she helpfully plays one after another for us, the viewing audience, well before the present movie is even over. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Talk about undermining their own product in an effort to promote movies they haven't even made yet. And here I thought The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was egregious in this regard.

I think this movie's biggest problem is the same problem that plagued Man of Steel: the approach to adapting these characters is just misguided from the ground up. There are elements that work in context and plenty of impressive scenes of both drama and action, but to me it never feels like I'm watching Superman, Batman, Lex Luthor, etc. in live-action form. That inherent sense of wonder on display in the Marvel Studios films, Fox's X-Men series, the Dark Knight trilogy or Christopher Reeve's Superman movies just isn't there in either of the DC films that Zack Snyder has made so far. They feel more like alternate-reality variations on these iconic characters as opposed to actually BEING these iconic characters, you know? Between Henry Cavill's face and the desaturated costume colors, I don't really feel like I'm seeing Superman when he's on the screen. Jesse Eisenberg doesn't come across as Lex Luthor at all. They would have been better off just making him a new character altogether and calling LexCorp something else.

I thought Ben Affleck gave a terrific performance as Batman/Bruce Wayne and his costume looked great but the character as written was just very un-Batmanlike. Alfred basically points this out over and over again throughout the movie and he's right. To me it seems like the kind of approach that requires groundwork. They would have needed at least a couple of movies to establish and develop Affleck as Batman in order for this particular Batman v Superman take to not feel like a bizarre alt-reality version of Batman. For what amounts to a cinematic reboot of the character, it's such a wrongheaded approach that it's pretty much doomed to feel un-Batmanlike from the start.

To be fair, my perspective might be "spoiled" by the fact that we've already seen definitive big-screen incarnations of these characters, some very recently. Wonder Woman is the only character in either of these DC films whom I think carries that exciting sense of 'iconic character coming to life' screen presence, but I don't want to attribute that solely to her prior absence from cinema. Gal Gadot did a great job with her limited screentime. She fit the role much better than I was expecting and I really hope her solo movie next year turns out well.

[mr.negativity]

[O.Supreme]

I still like this one better:

[mr.negativity]

The Hollywood slugger with $2B in 2016 box office (including 'Batman v. Superman' and 'Suicide Squad') and the upcoming 'Wonder Woman,' shares what he's learned throughout his successful career where he witnessed Richard Pryor behave (very) badly in church and fired an actor for repeatedly shouting "cut" on a set: "Your goal is to make the movie better until the very last moment, until you're out of money."

[mr.negativity]

[mr.negativity]

[O.Supreme]

I think someone said it best...Deconstructing something is fine, but you have to build it first. The gritty dark takes we got in the 90's comics was fine after already having 30 years of lighter world building adventures. Coming out of the gate with MoS & BvS , especially after the Nolan Trilogy was just bad timing.

[Benjamin Haines]

[jellydonut25]

The "all superheroes are bad people" guy is the guy DC put in charge of building their superhero universe.

Snyder was well-suited for Watchmen...and that's about it.

[lhb412]

^ I'd argue he was ill-suited for Watchmen, as he took Alan Moore's criticism and satire for straightforward badassery.

[jellydonut25]

I always found the graphic novel overrated and the movie better. *shrug*

[lhb412]

I think Watchmen the comic is great, but I think many don't pick up on the fact it's an epic spoof.

[mr.negativity]

Zack Snyder Confirms Steppenwolf's BvS Design Was Never In Justice League