Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:19 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:I like it a lot, especially the colors. It's a very vibrant film which is a breath of fresh air in this era of dusty looking movies.

These are just BTS pics. We don't know what the final cinematography or color-timing will be like. These colors could all wind up very muted.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby mrbluehair » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:34 pm

This looks great! Not a huge JP fan as a person, but enjoy his acting. I’ve actually liked all incarnations of the film Joker for different reasons. Even SS Joker though under used.

This version strikes me as a Romero/Ledger/Nicholson hybrid just from the look. Not wrapped in the various comics and cartoons.

To me:
Romero, comedic/cartooney villain with a hint of true evil...
Nicholson, more anger masked by humor
Ledger, complete lack of empathy for humanity, his look juxtaposed his intent
Leto, The psycho gangster who took true pleasure in others pain.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby mr.negativity » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:56 am

IndieWire:
From One Joker to the Next: Mark Hamill Gives Joaquin Phoenix His Blessing
Last edited by mr.negativity on Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby O.Supreme » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:22 pm

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Never thought Aquaman & Joker would have the same first name name :wink:
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby canofhumdingers » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:00 pm

:? I just don’t know. I’m not a big fan of knowing the Joker’s origins. I kinda prefer how the Nolan trilogy handled it (“Nothing. No matches on prints, DNA, dental. Clothing is custom, no labels. Nothing in his pockets but knives and lint. No name, no other alias.”).

And (as we touched upon when discussing Thanos in Infinity War) I’m not a big fan of making the most heinous and evil super villains into sympathetic characters. I don’t want the Joker to become the Joker because he was mistreated and abused by society who just didn’t coddle him enough. I dislike the idea of the filmmakers trying to get us to feel sorry for him.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Dai » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:43 pm

It looks stylish, and it's trying to be a straight drama, but there's just something...empty about it. I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt and say it might be a trailer problem, since they used an action movie trailer style for something that's clearly not an action movie. Also this is a teaser, so the narrative is bound to feel disjointed at this point.

O.Supreme wrote:Never thought Aquaman & Joker would have the same first name name :wink:


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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:06 am

Nope! Not for me.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am

It's intriguing. Moreso than I thought it would be.

Psycho with a dash of Taxi Driver applied to the Joker. Could be interesting.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby lhb412 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:15 am

Movie might be good, but more excited about prospect of out-of-continuity one-offs.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby canofhumdingers » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:14 pm

lhb412 wrote:Movie might be good, but more excited about prospect of out-of-continuity one-offs.


I’ll agree with that. I enjoy the continuity and (as I’ve mentioned) I really love the casting DC has managed, even when the films haven’t always been the best. But I’m also all for the options and unbridled creativity that unrelated one-offs afford the material. Personally, I hope they do more of both!
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby lhb412 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:19 pm

^They could do something like a Batman movie set in the '40s or an All-Star Superman or New Frontier movie!
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Gargantuan Gargantua » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:14 am

The movie looks interesting because it actually looks like an indi movie without too much studio oversight. Lets hope it stays that way.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby O.Supreme » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:17 pm

You know, for as much Batman media as I've consumed, this one seems to be a bit different. I mean I know there has been several different plausible origins for the Joker. I've always been partial to The Red Hood/vat of Toxic Chemicals, because it was the first attempt. But at least in some versions, they gave him the first name "Jack" , while "Jack Napier" was a contrivance of the Tim Burton film, also used in Batman TAS, It just seems like *Arthur* comes out of nowhere... Jack seems like a more generic name for a guy who really would want to have a *variable* memory of his own life.

I've heard a lot of fans saying that *Society* in general, and his extreme abuse are the new Toxicity of his makeup (as opposed to actual toxic chemicals). I'm not going to say they are wrong, it definitely is a different take. I probably wont see this film in theaters, not so much because it looks bad or anything, but to be quite honest, I'm one of those few who really does prefer heroes to villains.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Dai » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:07 am

Having watched the trailer a couple more times and mulled it over, I'm starting to feel more optimistic about how this could turn out. I have a suspicion about the key event that will push him over the edge:

Spoiler Below:
The teaser points to Arthur's key relationship being with his mother. It has an almost Forrest Gump vibe to it. I think the movie will present him with a tragedy that mirrors the one that created Batman: the murder of his parent. If so, it will probably be framed in a way that seems like a sick joke to him. Perhaps the violence and abuse he suffers causes him to buy her a gun to protect herself, but a mugger or burglar ends up killing her with it.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Rodanex » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:21 am

This looks so dumb.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby The Shadow » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:11 am

Dai wrote:Having watched the trailer a couple more times and mulled it over, I'm starting to feel more optimistic about how this could turn out. I have a suspicion about the key event that will push him over the edge:

Spoiler Below:
The teaser points to Arthur's key relationship being with his mother. It has an almost Forrest Gump vibe to it. I think the movie will present him with a tragedy that mirrors the one that created Batman: the murder of his parent. If so, it will probably be framed in a way that seems like a sick joke to him. Perhaps the violence and abuse he suffers causes him to buy her a gun to protect herself, but a mugger or burglar ends up killing her with it.



Spoiler Below:
The scenes with Joker/Arthur and his mother seemed to have a Norman Bates vibe to me.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby mr.negativity » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm

CBM:
JOKER's Plot May Have LEAKED Online And It Sounds Like A Seriously Weird DC Movie - SPOILERS

YouTube:
Spoiler Below:
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby mr.negativity » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:38 pm

canofhumdingers wrote:TIME review: Joker Wants to Be a Movie About the Emptiness of Our Culture. Instead, It’s a Prime Example of It

I don’t normally pay much attention to reviews other than to get a very general idea about the possible quality of a film. But man, this sounds like it is EXACTLY the film I was hoping against hope that it would NOT be. The trailers didn’t do anything to placate my concerns, but this review confirms all my worst fears. It sounds like the people in charge of this film could not possibly misunderstand the Joker character any more.

I know some of us have had disagreements about 2019’s GKOTM being tone-deaf. But if this review is accurate, I cannot think of a more appropriate description than completely and utterly tone-deaf.

I think one of the reasons Heath Ledger in TDK is still so highly regarded is, despite some pretty drastic departures from tradition with his appearance, at the core the filmmakers absolutely understood who the joker is and what makes him so fearsome and such a compelling villain. He’s not misunderstood. He’s not a poor sap who society abandoned. He’s an evil person who knowingly and gladly chooses evil because he likes it. He likes the power it gives him over people. He likes the freedom from conscience that allows him to do utterly heinous things without a care. This new film could not be more opposite from that essential core element if it tried.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby canofhumdingers » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:17 pm

Whoops, forgot this movie had its own thread. Thanks.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby GFan » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:10 pm

mr.negativity wrote:
canofhumdingers wrote:TIME review: Joker Wants to Be a Movie About the Emptiness of Our Culture. Instead, It’s a Prime Example of It

I don’t normally pay much attention to reviews other than to get a very general idea about the possible quality of a film. But man, this sounds like it is EXACTLY the film I was hoping against hope that it would NOT be. The trailers didn’t do anything to placate my concerns, but this review confirms all my worst fears. It sounds like the people in charge of this film could not possibly misunderstand the Joker character any more.

I know some of us have had disagreements about 2019’s GKOTM being tone-deaf. But if this review is accurate, I cannot think of a more appropriate description than completely and utterly tone-deaf.

I think one of the reasons Heath Ledger in TDK is still so highly regarded is, despite some pretty drastic departures from tradition with his appearance, at the core the filmmakers absolutely understood who the joker is and what makes him so fearsome and such a compelling villain. He’s not misunderstood. He’s not a poor sap who society abandoned. He’s an evil person who knowingly and gladly chooses evil because he likes it. He likes the power it gives him over people. He likes the freedom from conscience that allows him to do utterly heinous things without a care. This new film could not be more opposite from that essential core element if it tried.


I agree with this 100%. It's exactly like when Rob Zombie made Michael Meyers a sympathetic character in his Halloween remake.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby mr.negativity » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:40 pm

canofhumdingers wrote:Whoops, forgot this movie had its own thread. Thanks.

No problem.

FOX NEWS:
'Joker’ star Joaquin Phoenix leaves interview after being asked if movie will ‘inspire’ violence

THR, 9/24/2019:
Aurora Shooting Victims Voice Fears Over 'Joker' in Letter to Warner Bros.
Ryan Parker wrote:Todd Phillips' dark take on the Batman villain will not play at the theater where a massacre took place during a 2012 screening of 'The Dark Knight Rises' as family members of those killed ask the studio to donate to gun-victim charities.

Family members of those killed in the July 20, 2012, mass shooting at a screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, Colorado, have signed a letter to Warner Bros. sharing concerns about the upcoming Joker film and asking the studio to donate to groups that aid victims of gun violence.

"We are calling on you to be a part of the growing chorus of corporate leaders who understand that they have a social responsibility to keep us all safe," reads the letter, a copy of which was shared with The Hollywood Reporter.

Seven years have passed since James Holmes, clad in full body armor and armed with multiple guns including an assault rifle, terrorized the Aurora Cinemark theater, murdering 12 people and injuring 70 during a screening of Christopher Nolan’s Batman film.

Now, as Warner Bros. gears up for the Oct. 4 release of Todd Phillips' R-rated Joker, which is attracting attention for its gritty, realistic violence as well as for its artistry and the performance of star Joaquin Phoenix, some survivors and relatives of the victims are expressing fears about the film.

"I don’t need to see a picture of [Holmes]; I just need to see a Joker promo and I see a picture of the killer," says Sandy Phillips, whose 24-year-old daughter, Jessica Ghawi, was among the slain.

Sandy Phillips (no relation to the film's director), who with her husband Lonnie created the nonprofit group Survivors Empowered, worked with Igor Volsky of the gun control advocacy group Guns Down America to craft the letter to Warner Bros., which was signed by five family members of victims and sent Tuesday morning.
In an interview, Sandy Phillips says that Joker, which centers on the isolated and mentally ill antihero who becomes Batman’s eventual arch-nemesis, is "like a slap in the face." She adds that she's concerned about audiences connecting to and even emulating the film’s protagonist in a cultural climate where mass shootings have become commonplace.

"My worry is that one person who may be out there — and who knows if it is just one — who is on the edge, who is wanting to be a mass shooter, may be encouraged by this movie. And that terrifies me," she says.

One theater that apparently will not be showing Joker: Century Aurora and XD, the remodeled venue where the shooting took place.

The theater chain did not respond to a request for comment. But as of Monday night, no showtimes were listed online for Joker at the Aurora multiplex, and a theater employee told THR that advance ticket purchases were not available because the film will not be shown at the venue.

The letter, addressed to new Warner Bros. CEO Ann Sarnoff, does not seek to halt the release of the film nor to rally gun critics to boycott it. Rather, it asks the studio to "end political contributions to candidates who take money from the NRA and vote against gun reform" and "use your political clout and leverage in Congress to actively lobby for gun reform. Keeping everyone safe should be a top corporate priority for Warner Brothers."

The letter states that the shooting was "perpetrated by a socially isolated individual who felt 'wronged' by society" and acted. "As a result, we have committed ourselves to ensuring that no other family ever has to go through the absolute hell we have experienced and the pain we continue to live with. Trust us, it does not go away."

A Warner Bros. spokesperson says the studio has not yet received the letter. “We cannot comment on a letter we have not seen,” the rep adds.

Those who signed the letter are Sandy and Lonnie Phillips; Heather Dearman, whose cousin Ashley Moser was severely wounded and lost her unborn child due to her injuries, and whose 6-year-old daughter Veronica Moser Sullivan was killed; Theresa Hoover, whose 18-year-old son Alexander J. Boik was killed; and Tiina Coon, whose son witnessed the shooting.

Holmes, convicted of 24 counts of first-degree murder and now serving life in prison with no possibility of parole, will be forever linked to the Batman film. In the days following the massacre, Holmes was compared to the Joker character because he sported bright dyed hair and, according to a now-debunked report at the time, called himself "the Joker" as he was being arrested. Daniel Oates, Aurora’s chief of police at the time, maintains "there is no evidence" Holmes ever said that.

Nevertheless, says Oates, "Every time there is a mass shooting or, in the collective media culture, a portrayal of a mass shooting or an evil character who engages in the wanton, random, senseless killing of innocents, we are all traumatized again." Sandy Phillips expands on that: "For me, it's the gratuitous violence that this film glorifies and elevates with the Joker character."

The letter from Aurora victims comes at a sensitive time for Warner Bros., which is marketing the hard R-rated crime drama differently from typical all-audience superhero pictures. While early tracking suggests the $75 million film will open to more than $80 million domestically, Phoenix briefly excused himself from a recent interview to consult with Warners' PR when he was asked if he felt the performance might inspire actual acts of violence.

In a piece published Monday, Phoenix told IGN, "Well, I think that, for most of us, you're able to tell the difference between right and wrong. So I don't think it's the responsibility of a filmmaker to teach the audience morality or the difference between right or wrong. I mean, to me, I think that that's obvious.”

And Todd Phillips told IGN, "The movie makes statements about a lack of love, childhood trauma, lack of compassion in the world. I think people can handle that message,” Phillips said. “It's so, to me, bizarre when people say, ‘Oh, well I could handle it. But imagine if you can't.’ It's making judgments for other people and I don't even want to bring up the movies in the past that they've said this about because it's shocking and embarrassing when you go, oh my God, Do the Right Thing, they said that about [that movie, too].”

Phoenix's complex portrayal of Arthur Fleck, who eventually becomes the Joker, is very different from the cartoonish supporting character played by Jared Leto in the 2016 PG-13 Suicide Squad. Todd Phillips’ hyper-realistic Joker roots the villain’s origin story in a dark, grounded tale, and the violence, at times with a gun, is brutal and jarring.

The film won raves at its Venice Film Festival premiere this year, taking the top prize and generating Oscar buzz for Phoenix (THR critic David Rooney called the actor’s portrayal "riveting … both unsettling and weirdly affecting.")

Oates, who retired in June after nearly 39 years in law enforcement, says he believes the timing of Joker is poor, noting three mass shootings in the past three months: at the Gilroy Garlic Festival in Gilroy, California, where three people were killed on July 28; the massacre in El Paso, Texas, where 22 people were killed on Aug. 3; and then the following day the shootings in Dayton, Ohio, where nine people were killed.

Fears of being re-traumatized by Joker are legitimate, explains Dr. Debra Kaysen, a professor in Stanford University’s department of psychiatry and behavioral sciences.

"During a trauma, there are so many cues that are happening around the trauma itself. It could be your heart racing. It could be the sounds or the smell or what’s happening in the space," says Kaysen, who specializes in PTSD. "So, that certainly happens when people go through truly horrifying events, like the Aurora shooting, both for the people who were there, but also the people who lost loved ones."

Joker could "trigger" victims’ PTSD for multiple reasons, she says. "It’s topically related. It’s in the same comic book universe. [The trauma] is also movie-associated. And it is a violence storyline. So, you have a compounding of those networks, or those cues."

Aurora survivor Pierce O'Farrill, who was shot multiple times and still has a bullet lodged in his arm, says he suffered his first panic attack since the massacre about eight months ago. It occurred in a movie theater.

"It had nothing to do with the movie," O'Farrill explains. "I just — I don’t know what it was, but I had a PTSD attack and all those memories came flooding back, and I had to get myself out of the theater. You just never know what can trigger it, and I sympathize with those folks who are concerned about this film."

But not all family members of Aurora victims are against the film. Tom Sullivan, whose 27-year-old son Alex was killed in the massacre, says he does not believe Joker will "jumpstart somebody” to commit acts of violence.

"I don’t think that seeing something is the catalyst to, ‘OK, that is what I am going to start to do,'" says Sullivan, now a Democratic state representative in Colorado. He also says that he still enjoys Batman films, but the Joker character is his least favorite, so he has no interested in the Phoenix movie.

Sullivan introduced presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke at a town hall last week in Aurora, where the Democratic politician again called for rounding up high-powered assault weapons amid his platform of stronger gun control.

Sullivan says he would support Warner Bros. adding "a blurb at the end or beginning of the movie about directing people to organizations for mental health."

O’Farrill says he supports the idea of Warner Bros. donating to relevant causes. Still, the self-described "comic book nerd" says he thinks Joker looks entertaining.

“I do want to see it,” he says. “I think it looks interesting. I don’t know that I’ll see it in the theater, but I’ll definitely see the film.”

He continues, "If people were trying to shut down the film, I would have a strong opinion against that because I am kind of an old-school constitutionalist. I think Warner Bros. has the right to make any kind of film they want."
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Henry88 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:55 am

‘Joker’ Makes Record $13.3 Million at Thursday Box Office
https://www.thewrap.com/joker-thursday-box-office/
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Outkaster » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:17 am

Great movie. A statement of mental health and it's treatment really in the 70's and 80's. It will leave you a little unsettled.
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:51 am

What makes a Joker? While some (myself included) would probably argue that one of the things that makes the Joker great is actually his lack of a backstory, it’s no less interesting a question to contemplate. Is it nature? Is it nurture? Is it timing? Is it fate? Is it choice? Todd Phillips’ Joker is one of the few movies I’ve seen that attempts to wrestle with this, while providing the answer that it’s all of those things, that actually seems to do a mostly really good job of SHOWING that it’s all of those things and not undercutting one or another in favor of leaning more towards a certain direction. The Joker isn’t born of pure happenstance, nor is he just a homicidal lunatic that should have been locked up as a child. He's not entirely in control of himself, but he's definitely to blame for that and freely chooses to abandon the laws of morality as we understand them. He’s the perfect storm.

While it misses the mark on being a “perfect” movie, some of that is because it’s not a perfect JOKER movie…it’s not a perfect COMIC BOOK movie, and that’s something that needs to be wrestled with on kind of each person’s individual level. This isn’t THE Joker, this is A Joker. It’s not the birth of the version of the Joker we all know, it’s just a possible background for how a person like the Joker can come into existence. The extent to which that bothers you will color your opinion of most of the movie, I think. For me, that holds it back from being a perfect 5/5, but its many strengths more than make up for that shortcoming, and its other faults border on nitpicks. As a character piece about a man becoming a monster, a transformation from a person into a creature (just not with the special effects associate with a thing like The Fly or something), Joker is spectacular.
4.5/5


PS: I guess you can't really review or talk about Joker without addressing the "glorification of violence" supposedly found therein....it's plainly and simply bullshit. Is the movie dark? Yes. Disturbing? Absolutely? Uncomfortable? You know it. Is Arthur a grimy sleezy protagonist? Yep. Does the movie have our protagonist ultimately become a sinister monster, a complete sociopath and a villain? SURE DOES. Does it condone, or even worse, applaud that violence, that sleeze, that darkness, and that sociopathic villain? What the hell movie were people watching? While some of Arthur's early moments seem at least somewhat justified by the circumstances in which he finds himself, by the end, when he's fully formed as The Joker, there's no reasoning or rationale behind his actions. He tells horrible jokes that only he thinks are funny. He tells non-jokes about death and violence that he finds hilarious and everyone else finds sick. He murders with a casual flare that only a true monster could possess and he doesn't even see why it's a big deal. To argue that the movie is extolling any kind of virtue behind this behavior is to misunderstand it completely. I could see taking issue with making the Joker somewhat sympathetic, but I don't get any sort of applauding and inciting violence. He's the VILLAIN. This is the villain's origin. As for the Joker being sympathetic, I think he's made more pitiful...which again, might not be everyone's cup of tea when it comes to The Joker, but I think there's a difference between "You should empathize with this person and their plight," and "Look at this piece of sh**. It's a real piece of sh**, isn't it? You should feel bad that it exists."
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Re: Joaquin Phoenix is The Joker

Postby Jinzo Ningen » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:33 pm

In some ways it reminded me of "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" - only with a tasteless outfit and clown makeup. :shock:
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