TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:50 am

Dr Kain wrote:I think it one of the best Godzilla movies of all time.

:?:
I mean, I can get behind thinking it is over-hated, even if I don't agree...but this movie has NO characters. It has human-sized props.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby kiryugoji04 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:51 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I kind of agree with Jared, but I'd mention the score as a highlight as well.


Oh. Right. What you said.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby Dr Kain » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:04 am

jellydonut25 wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:I think it one of the best Godzilla movies of all time.

:?:
I mean, I can get behind thinking it is over-hated, even if I don't agree...but this movie has NO characters. It has human-sized props.


It has Chujo, it has the best Mothra since the original, it has Kiryu, it has one of the best incarnations of Godzilla ever, it has an amazing soundtrack, it has some of the best melee fights in the entire franchise and they don't get to the ridiculous wrestling matches of the 70s, the main character is not a soldier, a scientist, or a reporter, it has Gao Red's actor in it, and it has a conclusion.

Mothra, Kiryu, and Godzilla are just as much characters as the humans in this thing.

There are things I agree with you on. I think they made dumb decisions by just writing out Akane and Hayama, and it was stupid to not have Yuhara in it, but the movie already did so much building of what it needed to do in the first one that that does not matter much. This finishes off the trilogy, as it were. It is the final battle. Everything that was needed to be developed and set has been set.

I guess the thing is, I do not look at this movie as a stand alone movie. It's like Quantum of Solace in the Craig Bond movies. It is a great installment, but it needs to be watched not too long after Casino Royale. The same is true for this. Toky SOS is a great installment, but it needs to be watched not too long after GxMG. As a stand alone movie, it does falter.

Let me ask you this, what do you think is better, SOS or the Heisei movies?
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby goji4ever » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:12 pm

Tokyo SOS does benefit from being watched directly after its prequel... specially given how it feels like a significant step up..
All that being said its a solid well put together movie but its best bits are mostly the regurgitated ideas from previous goji x mothra films..
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby Jared » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:37 am

The two Kiryu films make for a fun double feature, and I would say they're about on-par with each other in quality. GODZILLA AGAINST MECHAGODZILLA has slightly better characters and story, and GODZILLA: TOKYO S.O.S. has slightly better effects and action. I would have preferred a single film with strong elements all-around (as well as better writing in general, of course), but they're still a lot of fun; and the music, while fairly generic, is very well-suited.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:27 pm

It's certainly the most consistently polished Millennium film visually, and Tezuka's most consistent film overall.

While I put down his three films quite a bit, seeing his wonderful Sci-Fi Japan interview made me appreciate just how few resources he was given. Yes, he was a company 'yes man' given the task of producing some very cheap Godzilla films on schedule, but he's also an enormous fan and listening to it from his perspective you can tell he knows his films aren't the greatest, but he still relished the small victories he accomplished in his struggle to make them and is pleased as punch to be a part of Godzilla history.

What I mean to say is; I feel that by Tokyo SOS he'd developed more of the muscles necessary to make something from nothing, and that's why it's better.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Mon May 16, 2016 8:28 pm

^ and in contrast to my last post: I just rewatched Tokyo SOS, and by my math that must be the fifth or sixth time I've watched it and I just can't put my finger on this thing! It's maybe the most forgettable Godzilla movie ever. Sure; it has the most consistent visuals of all of Tezuka's films, maybe of the entire Millennium series (GMK has much better work, but interspersed with some pretty bad work), but aside from the nicest Mothra since the '60s (the highlight of the film) and a decent score the entire thing is just so bland. Bland, and slight - the hour and a half breeze by without leaving much impression.

There's an attempt to create a more interesting cast of characters, but it's like they only did the beginnings of the work to make that happen; often just telling the audience directly what the character motivations are and moving on. When the characters resolve whatever conflict or arc they had I just shrugged. Life should be lived in the time allowed/I'm afraid my kid might die in battle/I love machines, but fairies have told my it's wrong to make a Mechagodzilla - all of these things could have potentially been interesting had they been better developed.

The monster scenes may be more technically proficient, but it's also noticeable how flat and sparsely detailed the miniature environments are, and often they feel cramped in a way that belies just how little studio space they had to work within.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby Mac » Mon May 16, 2016 10:56 pm

Watching this one recently, I was struck by how this might actually be the last great practical effects showcase in film, let alone tokusatsu. Really wonderful work. Shame it's basically the creative nadir of the series. The story-telling is so inert and sterile, I can't blame TOHO for taking a hard left with GFW.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Mon May 16, 2016 11:06 pm

^ I dunno: there may be some wonky bits, but I find the effects in Gamera The Brave much more satisyfying and interesting.

... and then there's the work Taguchi's doing as the lead director of Ultraman.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby Gman2887 » Mon May 16, 2016 11:20 pm

lhb412 wrote:^ I dunno: there may be some wonky bits, but I find the effects in Gamera The Brave much more satisyfying and interesting.

... and then there's the work Taguchi's doing as the lead director of Ultraman.


I think I also appreciated Ultraman: The Next's effects more a year later. Plenty of practical work there, if not a lot of miniatures.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed May 25, 2016 3:09 pm

I'm just too in love with the Mothra prop. It is hands down the best non-suit Kaiju produced since....what?...Kamakiras/Kumonga in 67?
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby klen7 » Wed May 25, 2016 4:21 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I'm just too in love with the Mothra prop. It is hands down the best non-suit Kaiju produced since....what?...Kamakiras/Kumonga in 67?
Thats probably true. The legs are fantastic.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:51 pm

^The legs are the things they always get wrong with Mothra!

It was great to see Tokyo SOS nail that aspect of the design. I hope when Legendary creates their version it has similar legs.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:30 pm

Ran into another big Godzilla fan the other day and he turned out to be one of those folks for whom the '60s films are too silly and the Kiryu films are like the platonic ideal of Godzilla movies.

Man, I just don't get it.

(Liked Gamera the Brave, though, so we were on the same page there)
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:28 am

lhb412 wrote:(Liked Gamera the Brave, though, so we were on the same page there)

:shock:

If the 60s films are "too silly" but Gamera the Brave is good, then it's effects, plain and simple. I know we all around here personally think the 60s effects are SPECTACULAR, but they lack a modern-day polish. Gamera the Brave's relay race is every bit as "silly" as Minya playing jump rope with Godzilla's tail.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:48 pm

^He also talked highly of the '90s Mothra movies! Yeah, I suppose it's the newer stuff he likes. I tried to be respectful (nothing worse then just yelling "You're wrong!!!" at someone), but I also stood up for the '60s films by hitting a few highlights I think are pretty undeniable, like them being witty and creative (with so much of the '90s and '00s films consisting of redoing concepts they originated, after all) and having great casts.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:07 pm

From Kalat's "A Critical History and Filmography of Toho's Godzilla Series" :

Tokyo S.O.S. sold a paltry 1.1 million tickets. Thats as many people as suffer from shingles in the United States.


That's savage, right there.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby GFan » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:41 am

I have a hard time revisiting this one. It has a few highlights (Hiroshi Koizumi, the monster fights), but overall has that "been there, done that" feel but with completely unmemorable characters. I remember being so disappointed when this film was first announced ("Yah! ANOTHER Mechagodzilla movie... this time WITH MOTHRA... AGAIN). GFW might be full of cringe-worthy moments, but at least it's unique and so bat-sh*t crazy it stands out. TOKYO S.O.S. is just... kind of there.

Also.. I learned from this movie that Mothra larva can swim almost at the speed of light.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby Giganfan » Thu May 23, 2019 1:27 am

Dr Kain wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:I think it one of the best Godzilla movies of all time.

:?:
I mean, I can get behind thinking it is over-hated, even if I don't agree...but this movie has NO characters. It has human-sized props.


It has Chujo, it has the best Mothra since the original, it has Kiryu, it has one of the best incarnations of Godzilla ever, it has an amazing soundtrack, it has some of the best melee fights in the entire franchise and they don't get to the ridiculous wrestling matches of the 70s, the main character is not a soldier, a scientist, or a reporter, it has Gao Red's actor in it, and it has a conclusion.

Mothra, Kiryu, and Godzilla are just as much characters as the humans in this thing.

There are things I agree with you on. I think they made dumb decisions by just writing out Akane and Hayama, and it was stupid to not have Yuhara in it, but the movie already did so much building of what it needed to do in the first one that that does not matter much. This finishes off the trilogy, as it were. It is the final battle. Everything that was needed to be developed and set has been set.

I guess the thing is, I do not look at this movie as a stand alone movie. It's like Quantum of Solace in the Craig Bond movies. It is a great installment, but it needs to be watched not too long after Casino Royale. The same is true for this. Toky SOS is a great installment, but it needs to be watched not too long after GxMG. As a stand alone movie, it does falter.


I credit Masaaki Tezuka with finding a way to successfully mimic the the Mechagodzilla story, so to speak, as a two-parter. Honda and Fukuda, each got a crack at Teruyoshi Nakano's original Mechagodzilla, and they each created successful bookends to one another. That kind of stuff, I do not think, is lost on Tezuka. He knows his history, and it bleeds through. When you judge him on that unique curve that Godzilla movies have, Godzilla x Megaguirus, Godzilla x Mechagodzilla and Tokyo SOS are worthy additions to the Toho fantasy codex.

These days, I've done a complete one-eighty on Tokyo SOS, from what I thought the first time I saw it. My expectations were unrealistic, I guess. And time has definitely been kind to it, because to tell you the truth, it occupies the very same spot, twenty-nine years into the future, that Terror of Mechagodzilla has for the Showa era of the Godzilla series.

After Tokyo SOS, Godzilla movies were never "familiar" again.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby Giganfan » Thu May 23, 2019 1:30 am

Correction, maybe not so much Megaguirus, as the Kiryu Saga, but yeah, I am at least, gentle in my criticisms of even the worst of the Tezuka-helmed Godzilla movies.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:02 pm

The Shobijin's costumes, which have exposed midriffs, legs, and arms, just really draws my attention to the fact that these two actress's bodies look nothing alike. I'm playing a visual game the entire time they're on screen where I'm like, "her face is rounder" "oh, she has a longer torso" etc.

They are as visually distinct as too skinny, attractive Japanese actresses in their early 20s with the same haircut can possibly be. The 1992 costumes were at least so extravagant that the matching outfits drew the eye.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby goji4ever » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:21 pm

its interesting to see generational reaction to the film..
if youre a kid and your exposure to the series starts with the millenium series then it becomes easy to see why its many young peoples favorite film.. specially when viewed free of all the baggage someone like me carries from previous mothra/goji films.
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby UltramanGoji » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:44 pm

goji4ever wrote:its interesting to see generational reaction to the film..
if youre a kid and your exposure to the series starts with the millenium series then it becomes easy to see why its many young peoples favorite film.. specially when viewed free of all the baggage someone like me carries from previous mothra/goji films.


Funny enough, I'm a younger kid who essentially grew up with the Millenium films and I find this one to be one of my least favorites!
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Re: TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Postby lhb412 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:09 pm

It's kind of a redo of a Heisei series style continuity done in two movies.

There's the anti-Godzilla force and it's associated weapons and mechs, there's an interesting timeline using the original 1954 film and elements of other Toho monster movies, characters carry over from film to film and from Mothra 1961 to Tokyo SOS, and the addition of Mothra in the second movie means they cross the divide from harder science fiction in the first installment to fantasy in the second.

It's easier for me to see why these films are so popular with a certain group of fans. It has the world-building nerds seem to love without the repetitive and sometimes convoluted aspects of the Heisei series.
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