TALKBACK#18: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah

[MekaGojira3k]

I just get hung up on how awful it all kind of looks :/ I'm not saying that to offend, but the Heisei series has such a bland and hazy look about it, weak characters that do very little to engage with me. I think that's what keeps it from rising up through the ranks. Although, In my bottom 10 it is near the top. Because I actually love the Lagos Island stuff. I mean, I'm sure we would've been fine without an origin, but at the same I think it's really cool to see it happen.

I also think my problem with these thematic elements is that it never feels like it ties up nicely in the finished film. That's just me, though. (I need to marathon all of these again actually).

[Hybrid Gojira]

Agreed. There is some pretty thematically rich stuff present there. I feel like a lot of people get hung up on the nonsensical time travel stuff, but if you overlook that, or just have fun with it and turn your brain off, it's a really fun movie. Arguably my favorite of the Heisei era and in my top 5 overall.

The problem lies in the fact that the Time Travel idea dominates the film and doesn't do it very well. I actually like GvsKG. I like the new KG design (his roar is ok, but nothing tops the original Showa KG roar). I also love the Godzilla design and the fact that he is so flippin powerful in the film.

[jellydonut25]

I just get hung up on how awful it all kind of looks :/

Dude, I completely agree with this. I don't even get THAT hung up on the time travel stuff, because honestly, its stupidity is kinda part of the fun of this movie for me (though the first half of the film IS entirely too long).

I get hung up on how much of a MASSIVE step-down it LOOKS in comparison to the immediately preceding films. This is EASILY my favorite of the 90s films, but I'll never forget when I first finally saw it, the feeling of disappointment...thinking how cool this movie had to look, given how cool the movies from 85 and 89 looked.

"We're now another couple years down the road and just think what improvements could have been made and my goodness just THINK of...oh wait, the UFO flying around in the beginning looks like crap, and the holograms are terrible, and M11...JEEBUS what happened during those two years?!?!?!"

[MekaGojira3k]

I think the sort of stupidity of it all becomes almost a "so bad it's good" kind of ride, and it probably is the fact that it is such a step down. I can't shake what could or should have been.

I think I may watch this tonight and see if I view it any more favorably than I have in the past.

[Hybrid Gojira]

^ My last viewing of it kinda bumped it down a few pegs. Despite some really good moments there are some really awful ideas mixed in.

[jellydonut25]

Terisawa (that's our main character right?) should vomit himself inside out when he finds out the woman he's been flirting with for days and ignoring his girlfriend for is his great granddaughter.

[MekaGojira3k]

Terisawa (that's our main character right?) should vomit himself inside out when he finds out the woman he's been flirting with for days and ignoring his girlfriend for is his great granddaughter.

Or he should look directly into the camera with a shocked look on his face while silly music plays. Freeze frame, cut to black.
Perfect ending.

[Hybrid Gojira]

Terisawa (that's our main character right?) should vomit himself inside out when he finds out the woman he's been flirting with for days and ignoring his girlfriend for is his great granddaughter.

Or he should look directly into the camera with a shocked look on his face while silly music plays. Freeze frame, cut to black.
Perfect ending.

The whole thing is just creepy.

[klen7]

Terisawa (that's our main character right?) should vomit himself inside out when he finds out the woman he's been flirting with for days and ignoring his girlfriend for is his great granddaughter.

Or he should look directly into the camera with a shocked look on his face while silly music plays. Freeze frame, cut to black.
Perfect ending.

That might bump the movie up my rankings a few points. what a bizarre subplot

[Legion]

I just get hung up on how awful it all kind of looks

I'm with you on that. I actually like a lot of the monster stuff - not ALL of it but a LOT of it. This is probably THE Heisei Godzilla, and the one that Toho SHOULD be focusing on now instead of the 1994 version. Mechaghdorah looks great as well, and like Biollante has that "Holy crap, look at that thing!" quality to it. And with the great Ifukube returning, how can you not like the music? And like I always say, the ideas are great. Maybe they're not carried out too well, but you have to give them credit for exploring Godzilla's origins and playing around with the time travel idea.

But there's a lot of negatives here in the visual department. How is it that Tsuburaya perfected a flying King Ghidorah in 1964/65, but here we have mid air fighter plane battle using a Ghidorah prop that's as stiff as the one in Godzilla vs Gigan? I like the Godzillasaurus design, but that entire sequence is laughable in how incompetent it is. But some of the worst effects (some of the absolutely worst crap in any Godzilla film) goes to the stuff supporting the human drama. Stuff that would be bad even for a made-for-TV movie: awful jet pack effects, hilariously weak matting of the Mother ship and Kids, the hologram stuff, M-11 running with a goofy Sheldon Cooper smirk on his face, those idiotic Dorats...

This doesn't stop the movie from being entertaining, but it definitely stops it from being taken seriously like G84 or Biollante.

[Russzilla]

A couple of quick questions. Can anyone provide some background on the American actors that played the Futurians, Chuck Wilson and Richard Berger? The Heisei movies had some lousy American acting, but these two provided the best of the series. And did Toho have to request permission to use Gamera's roar for when Godzillasaurus was being attacked by the US Navy on Lagos Island, or did it just not matter back then?

[Russzilla]

I just get hung up on how awful it all kind of looks

I'm with you on that. I actually like a lot of the monster stuff - not ALL of it but a LOT of it. This is probably THE Heisei Godzilla, and the one that Toho SHOULD be focusing on now instead of the 1994 version. Mechaghdorah looks great as well, and like Biollante has that "Holy crap, look at that thing!" quality to it. And with the great Ifukube returning, how can you not like the music? And like I always say, the ideas are great. Maybe they're not carried out too well, but you have to give them credit for exploring Godzilla's origins and playing around with the time travel idea.

But there's a lot of negatives here in the visual department. How is it that Tsuburaya perfected a flying King Ghidorah in 1964/65, but here we have mid air fighter plane battle using a Ghidorah prop that's as stiff as the one in Godzilla vs Gigan? I like the Godzillasaurus design, but that entire sequence is laughable in how incompetent it is. But some of the worst effects (some of the absolutely worst crap in any Godzilla film) goes to the stuff supporting the human drama. Stuff that would be bad even for a made-for-TV movie: awful jet pack effects, hilariously weak matting of the Mother ship and Kids, the hologram stuff, M-11 running with a goofy Sheldon Cooper smirk on his face, those idiotic Dorats...

This doesn't stop the movie from being entertaining, but it definitely stops it from being taken seriously like G84 or Biollante.

Which is why, despite it having my all-time favorite Godzilla suit, ranks third behind the above mentioned movies.

[king_ghidorah]

I'd rank it third or second for me. All three though are in my current top 10 because I'm crazy like that.

Probably my favorite Godzilla suit of all time as well (the 62 is right up there too).

And I get that this series looks cheap, but I find a kind of charm in that. I think the recent Blu Rays kind of help make the films look better and like there was a little more money spent on them.

[MekaGojira3k]

The Heisei suits are all fairly low on my list of designs and suits. I've just never cared for how big and fat it looked. I think the Burning variant is pretty striking, but the only designs I consider this one better than are the 67, 73, and 98.

[klen7]

The Heisei suits are all fairly low on my list of designs and suits. I've just never cared for how big and fat it looked. I think the Burning variant is pretty striking, but the only designs I consider this one better than are the 67, 73, and 98.

I think you have a typo here.. you accidently included the 73 suit with the 67 and 98.

[Dr Kain]

I am saddened to say that holy **** this movie is just not that good. It isn't terrible, and it has great moments, but for the most part, it blows.

[DannyBeane]

I am saddened to say that holy **** this movie is just not that good. It isn't terrible, and it has great moments, but for the most part, it blows.

Much like Godzilla vs Gigan, Erroneous on all counts!

[Dr Kain]

I am saddened to say that holy **** this movie is just not that good. It isn't terrible, and it has great moments, but for the most part, it blows.

Much like Godzilla vs Gigan, Erroneous on all counts!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

So now everyone suddenly loves this movie?

[klen7]

I don't understand it, but it seems like a lot of people forgive this film for all the things they criticize about other Heisei films because its "so over the top".

[MekaGojira3k]

I don't understand it, but it seems like a lot of people forgive this film for all the things they criticize about other Heisei films because its "so over the top".

I DO NOT! Although I do group this, vs. MechaGodzilla, and vs. Destroyah together as being the middle-tier Heisei films. They aren't good, but they aren't Godzilla vs. Mothra.

[klen7]

Although I do group this, vs. MechaGodzilla, and vs. Destroyah together as being the middle-tier Heisei films. They aren't good, but they aren't Godzilla vs. Mothra.

That's where i'd put it. (3 or 4 in my Heisei rankings).. I do like the Godzilla suit a lot. The Ghidorah fight has some really solid moments. Mechaghidorah is a fun idea. The time travel and the characters really drag it down though. I've kind of embraced M-11, but i think thats more based on meeting Robert Scott Field a few times at G-Fest.

[DannyBeane]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the zaniness of this film is so over the top that it compares well to the best of the showa films imo. Too me its just a very fun movie. From a technical or storytelling perspective I agree, this film is lacking, but I feel that is a critique people can throw at most Godzilla movies. This movie to me is a film I can watch sober, drunk, with friends or just put it on as background noise while I'm doing other things. Not every film has to be like Gojira or Godzilla vs the Thing for it to be enjoyable. So I will take my terrible gaijin actors, my ludicrous time travel plot, pokemon-esque dorats, cheesy terminator knock-off, and incredibly creepy great grandpa/great grand daughter incest subplot and keep pimping this film like the fun, satisfying trainwreck it is. Almost all the post KG films are so painfully by the numbers it almost hurts to watch them.

*edit* seriously though, G85, Biollante and KG are really the only Heisei films I consistently watch.

[jellydonut25]

This movie's sheer stupidity is its biggest saving grace.

[Gwangi]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the zaniness of this film is so over the top that it compares well to the best of the showa films imo. Too me its just a very fun movie. From a technical or storytelling perspective I agree, this film is lacking, but I feel that is a critique people can throw at most Godzilla movies.

Most Godzilla movies can be zany, over-the-top and even lacking. Unfortunately, this film contains none of those elements, as it is just a narrative mess, and because of that, it virtually destroys all what matters in the movie. Perhaps lacking can be a fit. The lack of a good screenwriter other than Kazuki ÅŒmori!

To me, this film will always be "The Phantom Menace" or "Attack of the Clones" of the Godzilla cycle.

[DannyBeane]

Most Godzilla movies can be zany, over-the-top and even lacking. Unfortunately, this film contains none of those elements, as it is just a narrative mess, and because of that, it virtually destroys all what matters in the movie. Perhaps lacking can be a fit. The lack of a good screenwriter other than Kazuki ÅŒmori!

To me, this film will always be "The Phantom Menace" or "Attack of the Clones" of the Godzilla cycle.

I don't think its a narrative mess. Evil men from the future is a nice refreshing change from the usual aliens. The main characters are also a change from the usual stock characters of soldier/scientist/reporter. The dorats are goofy and some of the WW2/godzillasaur scenes are bad and M-11's spfx are cheesy but other than that, I think this movie can't really be criticized when compared to the other Heisei films. I even feel the time travel plot gets more flack than it deserves. I don't see any plot holes as far as that is concerned.