TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

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Postby Destroysall » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:58 am

jellydonut25 wrote:V....C....R????
I still watch my VHS copy of Sea Monster. Can't stand the International dub.
uhh...
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Postby Rodanex » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:28 am

jellydonut25 wrote:V....C....R????


I know...I'm old school. I should have bought the DVD when I had the chance.
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Postby Gman2887 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:10 am

Rodanex wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:V....C....R????


I know...I'm old school. I should have bought the DVD when I had the chance.


And for almost $4,000 you can buy yourself a brand new copy on Amazon:

Click here for the ball breaker.
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Postby lhb412 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:38 am

I'm hopin' we'll get a lot of the Godzilla catalog re-released next year.
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Postby briizilla » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:44 am

lhb412 wrote:I'm hopin' we'll get a lot of the Godzilla catalog re-released next year.


I've been giving serious consideration to having all my VHS movies transferred to DVD to keep the original dubs. Especially this one and Smog Monster.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:39 am

Destroysall wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:V....C....R????
I still watch my VHS copy of Sea Monster. Can't stand the International dub.
mine is on a dvd...
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Postby Goji 84 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:08 pm

"The others are quite forgettable"? I don't know about all that.

Even if I can never remember any of their names, I thought the other characters were a lot of fun (vague as that may be, I don't feel like I need to elaborate on that to those that are familiar with the movie). It just wouldn't have been the same if it was just Takarada, Mizuno, and that one guy looking for his brother.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby VeryMacabre » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:51 pm

I'll admit, vs The Sea Monster is one of my favorite films period. Most of that is Nostalgia Goggles, but I still feel like it holds up to scrutiny if only because once it gets going it is just so fun.

It helps that it was my first exposure to the big G, and that I still have the VHS my grandmother gave me for my birthday when I was young. It just means a lot to me, and I'm always up for watching it.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby briizilla » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:05 pm

VeryMacabre wrote:I'll admit, vs The Sea Monster is one of my favorite films period. Most of that is Nostalgia Goggles, but I still feel like it holds up to scrutiny if only because once it gets going it is just so fun.

It helps that it was my first exposure to the big G, and that I still have the VHS my grandmother gave me for my birthday when I was young. It just means a lot to me, and I'm always up for watching it.



Its a favorite of mine too. I love the MST3K version.

It always bugged me that once the ship is sailing everyone seems powerless to stop the kid and make him turn around. Its 3 on one, I'm sure they could have gotten him to see things differently one way or the other, instead they let him kidnap them basically. :lol:
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:23 pm

briizilla wrote:
VeryMacabre wrote:I'll admit, vs The Sea Monster is one of my favorite films period. Most of that is Nostalgia Goggles, but I still feel like it holds up to scrutiny if only because once it gets going it is just so fun.

It helps that it was my first exposure to the big G, and that I still have the VHS my grandmother gave me for my birthday when I was young. It just means a lot to me, and I'm always up for watching it.



Its a favorite of mine too. I love the MST3K version.

It always bugged me that once the ship is sailing everyone seems powerless to stop the kid and make him turn around. Its 3 on one, I'm sure they could have gotten him to see things differently one way or the other, instead they let him kidnap them basically. :lol:


I feel like the criminal is just sort of like "Whatevs, I needed to get gone anyhow" and the other two guys are just really confused/lazy/stupid.

When I was a kid and hadn't really seen the beginning I think I justified it by saying the other two were Ryota's friends. Even though it's clear that they only just meet. I think I just couldn't understand why they'd drive him to look at boats when they'd just met.
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Re:

Postby DannyBeane » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:09 pm

Gman2887 wrote:
Rodanex wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:V....C....R????


I know...I'm old school. I should have bought the DVD when I had the chance.


And for almost $4,000 you can buy yourself a brand new copy on Amazon:

Click here for the ball breaker.

Hell I'll part with my copy for $3000. Its a steal.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby VeryMacabre » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:03 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
briizilla wrote:
VeryMacabre wrote:I'll admit, vs The Sea Monster is one of my favorite films period. Most of that is Nostalgia Goggles, but I still feel like it holds up to scrutiny if only because once it gets going it is just so fun.

It helps that it was my first exposure to the big G, and that I still have the VHS my grandmother gave me for my birthday when I was young. It just means a lot to me, and I'm always up for watching it.



Its a favorite of mine too. I love the MST3K version.

It always bugged me that once the ship is sailing everyone seems powerless to stop the kid and make him turn around. Its 3 on one, I'm sure they could have gotten him to see things differently one way or the other, instead they let him kidnap them basically. :lol:


I feel like the criminal is just sort of like "Whatevs, I needed to get gone anyhow" and the other two guys are just really confused/lazy/stupid.

When I was a kid and hadn't really seen the beginning I think I justified it by saying the other two were Ryota's friends. Even though it's clear that they only just meet. I think I just couldn't understand why they'd drive him to look at boats when they'd just met.


I always figured they were just cool cats, you know? Every once in a while you meet people like that, people who barely know you but they treat you like family. I mean, it could be lazy writing, or it could be a powerful scene that speaks volumes about the characters in question. We could argue that the scene shows an innate selflessness and willingness to give that provides a human foil against the backdrop of Red Bamboo's criminality.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Arislan » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:17 pm

My daughter told me the other morning that she had a nightmare where she was being chased by the Red Bamboo.

So I guess the movie worked. ;-)
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby briizilla » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:56 pm

We could argue that the scene shows an innate selflessness and willingness to give that provides a human foil against the backdrop of Red Bamboo's criminality.


This made me chuckle.

I never got the vibe that the 3 teens had just met, it seems like they are all good friends to me.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby VeryMacabre » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:03 pm

briizilla wrote:
We could argue that the scene shows an innate selflessness and willingness to give that provides a human foil against the backdrop of Red Bamboo's criminality.


This made me chuckle.



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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Dr Kain » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:26 pm

After the success that was “King Kong vs. Godzilla,” Toho planned to do additional movies that feature King Kong, one of them being on an island with a terrorist group and a giant lobster for a villain. Unfortunately, this did not happen as King Kong was replaced with Godzilla, which in turn gives us one of the most disjointed movies in the entire Showa era that just does not seem to fit well with the timeline regardless of how you slice it.

The plot of the movie is very basic with a guy goes looking for his brother, they crash onto an island that is run by terrorists and protected by a giant lobster. They wake up Godzilla and he fights them, things blow up, and Mothra saves the day. There are some really good ideas here, but as a Godzilla movie, this plotline just does not work. The Red Bamboo are some of the dumbest villains imaginable and it makes me wonder how they even succeeded in being a terrorist group. They make the cartoon version of Cobra look intelligent. Then there is Godzilla, who is completely out of character here. Yes, the plot was originally written to be King Kong, but they never bothered to change it around so that it actually fits Godzilla’s persona instead. The whole staring at Dayo, going to sleep, and standing around like a monkey is not the very concept of Godzilla. As such, this movie just insults his characterization over the previous ten years’ worth of movies. He may have been a little dumbed down in the previous movie, but this is just insulting. As previously mentioned, this movie just does not seem to fit in with any of the other movies. Mothra is for some reason sleeping and needs to be woken up to save people. That makes no sense. Nor does the fact that when did Mothra become an adult? Is this the same Mothra from “Ghidorah The Three Headed Monster” or a different one? If it is, then is the larva from “Destroy All Monsters” a different one? In the end, Godzilla flees the island as he chases after “Honey Nut Cheerios” bee and the day is saved.

The characters are generic and boring outside of the thief, who is the only character that has any sort of personality. One of them is just obsessed with finding his brother, which is understandable, but it makes him one dimensional. The same goes for his brother’s one track mind (nor does he even resemble Ryota). The other two knuckle heads did not even need to exist as they contributed very little to the movie. Outside of one scene, the movie could have done without them. And then there are the members of the Red Bamboo, which have wasted the talents of the actors who portray their leaders.

Finally, just like everything else, the monsters in this movie are no better. Godzilla is an utter joke here. His costume looks worn out and his personality completely out of character. It does not help that he is still written to be King Kong, which is where the majority of the problems lie. That may not have any issue with some people, but it completely throws me out of the immersion of the movie. Mothra looks cheaply made as if they took what spare pipe cleaners they had and put them together. Her wings are small and everything just looks off about her. Then there is that giant bird condor, which surprisingly looks good for the whole two minutes it is on screen. Finally, Ebirah looks good, but seriously, he is a giant lobster. How terrifying can you really get with a giant lobster? There is a reason he is defeated by humans in “Final Wars.” He is a giant lobster, nothing that is at all worth getting excited over.

Overall, this movie is pretty subpar, but it does have some good moments in it. I do enjoy the moments when Ryota and the boys sneak around inside of the Red Bamboo base. The fight between Godzilla and Ebirah is pretty good overall despite the poor costume on Godzilla’s part. It is too bad that this movie looks and feels like it was made for less than 1,000 yen as there were some good ideas marred by terrible pacing, poor effects that appear done by a two year old, and one of the most degrading incarnations of Godzilla, even more so than those found in the Hedorah and Megalon movies. This is not the worst Godzilla movie ever, but if they had actually tried to make a good movie, and give it good effects, it could have been something really unique. Instead, it is just a forgettable piece of B grade quality. I give “Ebirah, Horror of the Deep” a 4/10.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Legion » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:56 am

If you say so, Kain...
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Dr Kain » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:57 am

Legion wrote:If you say so, Kain...


Really, that's it? I go through all of that to explain why this movie does not work for me and that is all you give me?
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:37 pm

Dr Kain wrote:
Legion wrote:If you say so, Kain...


Really, that's it? I go through all of that to explain why this movie does not work for me and that is all you give me?

For me there are SOME things I can't dispute: Godzilla is rather non-Godzilla-y at times, and the Red Bamboo comes across as about as threatening as the villain of a child's cartoon show...

but your complaints as to Mothra's character attributes of being asleep and needing to be persuaded to fight not making sense don't ring true AT ALL. In Mothra vs. Godzilla, Mothra's just sitting around doing nothing and is persuaded by the Shobijn to fight, and the egg is basically inert until everyone starts singing to their Mothra totem pole which causes the larvae to hatch.
Also, while I honestly can't say I know all the character's names, I don't think that makes them boring or worthless. The thief is good, Kumi Mizuno's character is mostly interesting, and I like the bit of comic relief from the one guy (the guy who ends up thrown in prison with the natives). Also, I wouldn't say Akihiko Hirata's talents are wasted at all.

I think Ebirah looks fantastic and I don't really think it's supposed to be a huge threat, just an obstacle, and imposition. I wouldn't say the monsters are a joke here, just for Ebirah alone...but I also don't come down as hard on Godzilla as you do. There were a lot of obstacles associated with a Godzilla film which has a LOT of water scenes and I think the effects team performed admirably. Also, the jet sequence is imho the VERY BEST jets-vs-Godzilla sequence in the entire series.

End of the day, it's one of the most kid-friendly Godzilla films, emphasized and underscored by its origins as a jumping off (or jumping in from, not sure which) point for the King Kong cartoon. It's a kids movie, and it's a fun one whose effects overall are nowhere near as bad as you keep insinuating, and whose characters are fun and colorful.

It's not the best Godzilla movie, but it's fun as all getout
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Dr Kain » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:44 pm

You are right about the water effects, those are very well done.

Now Mothra is confusing because you say they needed to convince Mothra to help, but Mothra is sleeping in this movie, not just sitting there needing to be convinced in order to help. Anyway, I'm more on wanting to know why Mothra is an adult here and then a larva in one of the next movies. Is it the same one?

As for Godzilla, see, I want my Godzilla to be a monster, which is what he is supposed to be. He is not the friend of children, which is how he is portrayed here despite there being no kids.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:15 am

Dude, imposing continuity on any of the films post-Monster Zero (at the absolute LATEST) is a fool's errand. Mothra is an adult here, a larva in DAM...why? Because. That's why.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:45 am

I understand all the criticisms of how Godzilla is portrayed, at least when it comes to his Kongish behavior. Still, I like this movie. Godzilla's fight with Ebirah is well-staged and I happen to enjoy the characters quite a bit. It's really not a bad outing at all.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:02 pm

Hybrid Gojira wrote:I understand all the criticisms of how Godzilla is portrayed, at least when it comes to his Kongish behavior. Still, I like this movie. Godzilla's fight with Ebirah is well-staged and I happen to enjoy the characters quite a bit. It's really not a bad outing at all.


It isn't a bad outing, but it just isn't a very good one either. Okay, taking for what Ebirah is, he is done well.

jellydonut25 wrote:Dude, imposing continuity on any of the films post-Monster Zero (at the absolute LATEST) is a fool's errand. Mothra is an adult here, a larva in DAM...why? Because. That's why.


Whether or not there is any continuity is irrelevant to me. If something does not work for me then I'm going to bring it up and take points away from it.
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:34 pm

You asked. I answered. Also, if you want to rationalize it:
This adult mothra is the larva from Ghidrah now an adult, it sleeps rather than sits around like the one from Mothra vs Godzilla because it behaves differently than its mother and hell maybe it's even a meditation technique to extend its life. At some point that we the viewers never see, an egg is laid and by the time Destroy All Monsters rklls around (which is a movie set 30 years after the events of this film) the adult mothra from this film is dead and a new larva exists.

On this last point I barely even feel like I'm doing much fan conjecture at all. We've seen that mothra has a life cycle, it's more than reasonable to assume that at some far-flung future date, adult mothra would be dead and a new larva exists
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Re: TALKBACK #7: Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:41 pm

No no, I don't need you to answer. I was just being rhetorical.
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