Connecting the Millenium films

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

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Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Kaiju Nexus » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:40 pm

In thinking about the Millennium series, I started to realize that there's not much "alternate reality" going on at all in these films. In fact, with very minimal changes, they fit into a single cohesive timeline pretty easily...

For instance...


Godzilla 2000 - Hardly anything to change here. Maybe make mention of the fact that Godzilla isn't the only monster that's ever existed and this one could fit in with just about any timeline.

Godzilla vs. Megaguirus - Same as Godzilla 2000, and just remove the idea of Godzilla only having attacked Japan just a few times and this also fits into almost any timeline.

GMK - This one's not a tricky as you might think. Just mention that Godzilla (and other monsters) have been around for a long time, but Godzilla is now possessed and therefore stronger and more malevolent than before. Mothra is a deity, so her death isn't permanent. And as for Godzilla's death and possession, just mention that Ghidorah sacrificed itself to "cleanse" Godzilla, and either keep the beating heart to signify that Godzilla will regenerate, or just cut it altogether.

In fact, maybe the Godzilla in GMK is actually the resurrected original Godzilla and NOT the Godzilla from G2K or Megauirus, who simply doesn't show up here!

Godzilla x Mechagodzilla - Another easy one. Almost nothing has to be changed except for the idea that Godzilla hasn't been around much. In fact, a creative idea might be to say that the (resurrected original) Godzilla in GMK was harvested for its bones and used to create Kiryu...therefore the Godzilla we see in this film is the one from G2k and Megaguirus.

Godzilla: Tokyo SOS - Nothing needs to be changed, really. In fact, the whole "Mothra is here to take back the bones" plot-line works even better since she's basically finishing the job that she and the other ancient god monsters started in GMK.

Godzilla: Final Wars - The film already takes place in the future, so just say that Godzilla showed up again after Tokyo SOS and the Gotengo buried him in the arctic. Everything else can take place as it does without any problems...


Wow...that was even easier than I thought it would be. I might even just start thinking of the Millenium films as a cohesive series! :lol:

Anything I missed that might make this more difficult than I originally thought?
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Postby Jorzilla » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:14 pm

In Godzilla x Megaguirus Japan's capitol was moved to Osaka. In Tokyo SOS it's still Tokyo.
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Postby Irish Gfan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:58 pm

One idea I would have had for the 50th Anniversary would have been to have most of the Godzilla universes some how all come together in some kind of Godzilla Multi-verse scenario where they all have to team up against some gigantic threat to all existence or some wacky crap.

Lets say Showa-Godzilla, Godzilla Jr now an adult from the Heisei Series, Godzilla 2000 & Kiryu (which is essentially a Cyborg Ghost Godzilla), and tie them in with Anguiras, Rodan, Mothra, & maybe one or two other allies team up against some all powerful monster like Bagan, through some cross dimensional time traveling technobabbling brew-ha-ha is able to gain powers from Godzilla's past foes like King Ghidorah, Gigan, Hedorah, Destroyah, Biollante, and heck, even the extremely evil GMK Godzilla.

Yeah, it is totally fanfic material, and their would be inconsistencies (Heisei GZ is twice as tall as most incarnations and that would have to change) but it was just some wacky idea I had to close the Millennium films, and actually have some weird payoff to all the different continuities.

As for actually tying them together, it is almost impossible. MAYBE you could fit G2K and GXM together, and obviously Tokyo SOS follows GXMG, but other than that, tying them all together would be a fruitless effort as the mission statement of the series was to not have continuity at all, Tokyo SOS being the only exception.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:22 pm

Irish Gfan wrote:One idea I would have had for the 50th Anniversary would have been to have most of the Godzilla universes some how all come together in some kind of Godzilla Multi-verse scenario where they all have to team up against some gigantic threat to all existence or some wacky crap.


Jesus christ. That would have beeen aweeessommeeee.

IDW should do this as a comic.
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Postby Jorzilla » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:28 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:
Irish Gfan wrote:One idea I would have had for the 50th Anniversary would have been to have most of the Godzilla universes some how all come together in some kind of Godzilla Multi-verse scenario where they all have to team up against some gigantic threat to all existence or some wacky crap.


Jesus christ. That would have beeen aweeessommeeee.

IDW should do this as a comic.
Unfortunately IDW is prohibited to reference any movie when they create the comics, per requirement from Toho.
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Postby Legion » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:52 am

Jorzilla wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
Irish Gfan wrote:One idea I would have had for the 50th Anniversary would have been to have most of the Godzilla universes some how all come together in some kind of Godzilla Multi-verse scenario where they all have to team up against some gigantic threat to all existence or some wacky crap.


Jesus christ. That would have beeen aweeessommeeee.

IDW should do this as a comic.
Unfortunately IDW is prohibited to reference any movie when they create the comics, per requirement from Toho.


Is there any particular reason why?
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Postby Rodanex » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:33 am

Probably complicated legal reasons.

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Postby Jorzilla » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:20 am

Legion wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
Irish Gfan wrote:One idea I would have had for the 50th Anniversary would have been to have most of the Godzilla universes some how all come together in some kind of Godzilla Multi-verse scenario where they all have to team up against some gigantic threat to all existence or some wacky crap.


Jesus christ. That would have beeen aweeessommeeee.

IDW should do this as a comic.
Unfortunately IDW is prohibited to reference any movie when they create the comics, per requirement from Toho.


Is there any particular reason why?
Toho has creative control over Godzilla. All story lines must be pre-approved and that's one of their requirements. It's purely a decision by Toho, but IDW has to comply if they want to use the characters. Sorry I can give a more detailed answer on why.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Jim Ballard » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:55 am

Jorzilla wrote:Sorry I can give a more detailed answer on why.


"Because Toho" is probably the most likely answer.

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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:28 pm

The Heisei series: the only reason people feel a compulsive need to "connect" the Godzilla films.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:39 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:The Heisei series: the only reason people feel a compulsive need to "connect" the Godzilla films.


Eh, even before I had seen the Heisei series I was pretty obsessed with the continuity in the Showa era.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:21 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:The Heisei series: the only reason people feel a compulsive need to "connect" the Godzilla films.


Eh, even before I had seen the Heisei series I was pretty obsessed with the continuity in the Showa era.

Then I guess we should blame you for all of it.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby kpa » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:57 pm

I'm not a fan of trying to jam together films/stories that clearly don't connect (and were intentionally made by the studio/filmmakers not to). Particularly in the case of something like GMK, since Kaiju Nexus' alterations basically guts the story.

I'll take the movies as they are and enjoy them on their own merits.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Benjamin Haines » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:44 am

I really like the Showa style of continuity. It was there enough to give an impression of world-building but most of the films didn't hinge on it. Continuity was utilized to good effect in stories like Monster Zero while others just did their own thing and struck a new style without necessarily abandoning what came before, like Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster. The Showa approach also allowed for multiple original monster movies such as Rodan, Varan, and Mothra before interweaving them in gala crossover events like Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster and Destroy All Monsters. Sure, the Godzilla movies of the Heisei Series made an effort to actively connect to each other, but the Showa films actually feel like they take place in a vast, interconnected world.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:43 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:The Heisei series: the only reason people feel a compulsive need to "connect" the Godzilla films.


Eh, even before I had seen the Heisei series I was pretty obsessed with the continuity in the Showa era.

Then I guess we should blame you for all of it.


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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Pkmatrix » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:14 am

jellydonut25 wrote:The Heisei series: the only reason people feel a compulsive need to "connect" the Godzilla films.


Eh, the need to connect stories, establish continuities, and determine canon is very much a Western obsession. Look at the historical efforts to do the same with the King Arthur mythos or Robin Hood, just for example.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:30 am

I don't see why the Heisei movies should be blamed for a connected universe.

The problem with the Millennium movies is a few of the movies have such shallow backstories that it makes it hard to enjoy without it being connected to something. Take 2000, for example. We know next to nothing about this world. All we know is Godzilla is there. Is this the same Godzilla that attacked in 54? DId Godzilla even attack Japan in 54? Have there been more Godzillas since then? Have there been other monsters? Do any of the previous movies take place in this time line? When was GPN formed? WHat is their exact purpose? Is Godzilla new? Has he fought enemies before? There are just way too many questions and we don't know jack **** about this world. The only thing we have that keeps us engaged in it is a strong cast of a characters. However, move to Megaguirus, which gives us slightly more information, but still keeps too many things vague, and a set of uninteresting and unlikable characters, and you have a mess of a movie when it comes to continuity. Hell, this must be the exact Godzilla that attacked Japan in 54, right?

GMK, Kiryu, and FW set itself up in timelines that worked. In GMK, we were told that Godzilla attacked in 54 and was killd by the OD, and that other monsters appeared, including Zilla. The Kiryu movies clearly take place with 54, Mothra, Frankenstein, and War of the Gargans, etc, existing. Now FW does keep things a bit vague on who this Godzilla is, but we do know that there are other monsters out there and that mutants have surfaced.

In all honesty, I love GMK, but I do think the Kiryu movies built themselves the best world. It does seems odd though that Godzilla out appear in 1999 only to then just disappear for four years.

Oh yeah, and all of the Showa movies are connected. Except for DAM, everything goes in order. DAM just takes place at the end of the timeline. Well, either that, or all of the movies that followed the Godzilla was actually a grown up Minilla.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:41 am

I love G2K for specifically the reason you claim it's terrible and stupid. I don't NEED backstory in my Godzilla. Did Mothra vs. Godzilla waste our time with backstory? Ghidrah? Sea Monster? Mechagodzilla?
Nope. Godzilla and other kaiju existed and people had to deal with it.

G2K has the chutzpah to just drop us into its universe and let us roll with the punches. It doesn't need to condescend to spend 10 minutes telling us about the world. It's very Showa in that respect. It's just a Godzilla movie, just another Godzilla adventure. "It's a Godzilla movie" is about all the background story I need in a Godzilla movie.

And I like the characters of G2K. Well, a few of them: Shinoda, Katagiri and Yuki. Katagari is a great Godzilla villain. He's cold and obstinate and thinks he's such a BAMF. Shinoda and Yuki are great together, with the chemistry slowly building and the relationship forming. I like it.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:37 pm

*high fives*
That opening rampage does EVERYTHING it needs to. It's great. I mean, I think it's why I really love G2k, especially the U.S. cut, it's a fun one-off adventure that hits all of the staples of the series. So, regardless of flaws, I think it's honestly a better movie of the 6 to just drop someone into if they've never seen a Godzilla movie before.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:23 am

I didn't say I hated 2000. In fact, I love it. It's just that it does not have any sense of placement because it has no history, so you can't fault people for not liking it for that. Sure, the movie has other issues, but a proper timeline should have been established as that is what ultimately causes issues with the Millennium films. There is no continuity and having every movie be a new timeline is not only lazy, but a headache to the viewer. Say what you want about the Heisei series, but at least they knew how to keep up with continuity.

And I don't get how you can say the Showa movies did not need a timeline, everything was established. Mothra vs Godzilla clearly takes place after KKvsG, so they didn't need to do anything else. Godzilla disappeared in the ocean, a tremor occurs, he rises out of the ground after borrowing himself to heal for a while.

And yes, the Showa movie does start to crap out when they can't even keep the movies connected properly. It is one of the reasons why the movies after Astro Monster all range in their quality from average to mediocre to down right terrible. However, Ebirah is easily the island Godzilla went to after he and Rodan defeated Ghidorah. He goes to Selgill Island after Ebirah to meet with Minilla. The movies after are him clearly coming from Monster Island, but because of DAM, they completely ****ed up the timeline, which hurts the movies.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:19 am

Dr Kain wrote: it has no history, so you can't fault people for not liking it for that.

I can, will, and do.

Dr Kain wrote:And I don't get how you can say the Showa movies did not need a timeline, everything was established. Mothra vs Godzilla clearly takes place after KKvsG, so they didn't need to do anything else. Godzilla disappeared in the ocean, a tremor occurs, he rises out of the ground after borrowing himself to heal for a while.

And yes, the Showa movie does start to crap out when they can't even keep the movies connected properly. It is one of the reasons why the movies after Astro Monster all range in their quality from average to mediocre to down right terrible. However, Ebirah is easily the island Godzilla went to after he and Rodan defeated Ghidorah. He goes to Selgill Island after Ebirah to meet with Minilla. The movies after are him clearly coming from Monster Island, but because of DAM, they completely ****ed up the timeline, which hurts the movies.

I disagree so wholeheartedly I'm scared my heart may jump out of my chest and run out to Colorado, where it will hunt you down with its unique set of skills and suffocate you with a pillow. (obviously kidding)

I doubt most of us saw these movies in order as kids. I never felt like any piece of the puzzle was missing in watching Mothra vs. Godzilla seeing it out of order. Same with Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla, and I think that's one of the best, most obvious examples in the series especially since it's generally a well-liked movie. There's nothing in that movie that fits it into any particular timeline at all. Godzilla just appears. This doesn't take away from the movie in the slightest.

The Showa films post-Raids Again vary in their attempts at continuity from "minor callbacks" to "none whatsoever" and that has NO bearing on their quality at all. Just like the Heisei series: Godzilla vs Space Godzilla is one of the more continuity-dependent entries in the series. It sucks. Godzilla vs. Mothra is one of the least continuity dependent entries in the Heisei series. It also sucks. Continuity has no bearing AT ALL on quality.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby DannyBeane » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:17 pm

I'm gonna have to agree with Jelly on this, for a series that I've only watched in order only maybe 2-3 times. Continuity isn't really that important.
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Re: Connecting the Millenium films

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:36 pm

Meh, I disagree, but I guess I understand where you are coming from.

I honestly always found the movies connecting to each other as a kid. Of course, the only ones I never saw were Raids Again and DAM when I was a kid, so I had no idea DAM jumped to 1999. As such, I always figured the movies were in chronological order, the only thing that I never understood was why Godzilla was in an iceberg in KKvsG until I finally saw RA in 2002. After that, it made sense. Oh, but growing up, I didn't like 1985 because it was out of place. It did not fit in the continuity with the other movies at all. It was not until I got to see Biollante in 98 and learned that 84/85 was meant to be a restart of the franchise that I started to enjoy it. The point is, even when I was a kid, I valued continuity.

Nevertheless, I do enjoy 2000. I do have to take back part of what I said above because yes, it not half-assing its continuity compared to Megaguirus does make it a better movie. I enjoy it immensely. However, the Kiryu movies and GMK gave us stronger continuities to their universes to the point that I wish Toho would have just picked one for the entire Millennium series. It's the reason I hope their next movie takes place in one of those universes. If not, then I just hope they have the writing to back it up.

BTW, 90% of the time, I do watch the movies in order. It is the only way to get me to watch the movies I do not like.
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