FORTEAN DEBATE CLUB 1: BIGFOOT!

[SparkieGojira]

Please post your brief argument for or against the exsistance of Bigfoot and keep it civil!:) The poll will close in a month.

[Lord Hastur]

I firmly believe, with all my heart that this creature exists.
I personally have never run into one, but that does NOT mean that the thousands of people who have are not telling the truth. There is just too much evidence suggesting that a man-like animal is alive and well out there, deep within the forests and high atop the mountains of our world. What could it really be? An unknown species of ape? Gigantopithecus? Surviving Neanderthals or similar primitive "men"? Paranormal manifestations? Alien hybrid experiments let loose to lurk around the globe? I've heard so many different theories on what these creatures could be, and I guess any one of these is possible, but personally I'm getting more mixed up in my own theories every time I learn more on the subject. There is definitely more than one type of these beings/creatures out there. Some are more animal than man, and some more man than animal. There are the small dwarfish types, The 8 to 12 footers, to the true giant types. The aggressive, fanged red-eyed bestial ones to the shy, bearded "Wild man" variety. Black furred, red haired, White colored, and brown and fuzzy. Quite a variety. Let's not forget the spooky, foul-smelling Abominable swamp Slob breed either. I of course don't know the true answer to what these creatures may be, but I lean towards the idea of most of them being animals, albeit a very rare type of animal that has always been around, but keeps itself mostly hidden from civilization either by being in a remote envronment to begin with, or becoming cunning and aware enough to know that mankind is trouble/dangerous. This animal is man-like, but not human like we are. A different species altogether. A primitive man? Well, not really. More of a true animal, but I suppose some of these beings could possibly be more "Man". Then there are some which I believe are more situated in the realm of the Occult or Paranormal. These are the scarier ones which behave alot differently than the animal guys. But, that's a difficult subject to get a handle on and explain. So, between all the sightings, eye-witness testimony, legends, footprints, photographs, etc., after such along period of time, I have personally concluded that yes, they're out there. All over the world. I just hope that we'll get PROOF one day.

[Destroyer D]

There's just not enough data really. No bodies. I'm tilting to "no"
but who knows. Need body!

[Pkmatrix]

While I do believe in the Yeti and Orang Pendak, I do NOT believe in Bigfoot. The idea that there could be a large primate living in the United States, of all places, is a bit TOO fanciful to me. Of course, I'm still open minded...I am willing to change my mind once evidence on par with that presented for the Yeti and Orang Pendak has been presented. Until then...no.

[CyHunter]

I'm one of those people who doesn't like to make up his mind in any matter until he has some conclusive reason to. In my mind, while it is more likely that the "Bigfoot" is a legend spun around pranks, mistaken sightings, and tall tales, I'm not God and I'm not all-seeing and all-knowing, regardless of how much I might like to be. Is it possible there is a species out there that, much like the Godzillasaurus on Lagos Island, has existed in secrecy and remains under the radar? I don't see why not.

Therefore, I remain undecided.

[Kajiu Fan]

I believe that Bigfoot, without a doubt, does exist and that there is a breeding population of them in the United States and Canada. To quote myself from another thread:

Actually, if anything, Bigfoot is one of the more possible creatures, IMO. The Pacific Northwest where the creatures primarily are supposed to dwell is an immense area, covering Washington, California, Oregon, and parts of Canada. This area has a huge amount of forests and wilderness in which the creatures (since there would have to be a small breeding population, without the shadow of a doubt) could dwell, and if they were fairly intelligent they could easily evade people. Physical evidence has also been discovered in the way of footprints, hair samples, feces samples, "nests" where the creatures are supposed to live, and other such things. The countless number of eyewitness accounts and few good photo/video evidence (the Patterson Film is the best and most well-known example of this) also help to confirm the possible existance of the Sasquatch. Plus, the Native Americans living in North America at that time had numerous sightings and stories themselves of the creature, and it wasn't long before the white settlers soon began to see Bigfoot as well. Finally, the numerous other "apemen" sightings across the world (the Yeti in the Himayalas, the Almas in Mongolia, the Yowie in Australia, the Skunk Ape in Florida, the Mono Grande in South America etc.), in my opinon, help coroborate that there could be an unknown species of ape living out there, or perhaps a surviving population of Giganthopocus(hope I spelled that right).

It is flat out impossible for the Bigfoot phenomenon to be solely the work of pranksters and hoaxers because then, not only would all of the credible eyewitness reports have to be thrown out (who must be really dumb to not be able to tell the difference between a bear or an ape suit and a real Sasquatch sometimes at point-blank range), but that also means that there would have to be a nation-wide group of conspirators running around in ape suits at all hours of the day and night and leaving footprints in remote areas where most people would never even think of going. They would also have to be incredibly brave or incredibly stupid considering how many people with guns are out in the woods nowadays, and they would have to have an impressive knowledge of hominid anatomy to be able to make footprints that are so realistic as to fool experts who have studying anthroplogy their whole lives. This just doesn't seem plausible to me, and I will never accept that as an explanation for why the reports of Bigfoot continue to come in.

EDIT: Oh, and I hope that doesn't look like I'm attacking Cy's opinon or anything. This is just something I'm really interested in, so I really get into it when I talk about it

[SparkieGojira]

I've extrended the poll's life. And don't forget, for every vote cast fore or against Bill Gates will pay a dollar towards buying littlle Timmy Jinkins a body transplant so he won't just be a head on a burlap sack anymore.

[buddah11674]

Yeah, I do believe in Bigfoot. Way too much evidence. The photos, the movies, the footprints, the audio tapes, and even hair analysis on strands left behind by Sasquatch. I've never seen one, but would I give the left parts my of various anatomical structures to glimpse a Bigfoot.

[Brendosaurus]

I tend to think it does not exist.

[MrZilla69]

I don't know if bigfoot exists or not. But all anyone really has to show for it is a couple of supposed hoaxes on video tape. You would think by now there would be some hardcore evidence. New species are discovered in other countries all the time and we still can't crack this one that is supposedly living right under our noses in the good ol' US.

[Gekido Jin]

R. Stark
Skeptic Correspondent


So where are all the monsters?

Are you sure you want to know? Even better – are you sure you want to consider everything that this reality would entail?

We here in the Skeptics Corner wonder – we wonder if you want to know. Wonder if the truth is really what you are pursuing. Wonder why it is that you insist on placing your skewed template of reality over common happenings, chance encounters and poor perceptions rather than simply accept what is there.

We are not the ones with the problem. We are not the ones with anything to prove. We are the ones with the science – not the belief, not the hope, not the suspicion – the science. We are the ones that have the facts and can easily downgrade the fiction. We are the ones that you must answer to.

So where are all the monsters?

You tell me.

Give us a bit more than poorly developed photos of some half-submerged, aquatic anomaly, or the ever-present shaky camera shot of some guy in a monkey suit. Give us more than an eyewitness who feels compelled to swear that he was sober and not given to hallucinations. Give us the science – the evidence. Give us the facts. Give us raw data... Give us something.

But what do we get?

More of the same.

We get more computer trickery. We get more denounced hoaxes. We get, if you can remember back the three sentences, more of the same.

You offer theories. You offer possibilities. You offer gut feelings.

Guess what? This is the 21st Century – theories and gut feelings aren’t enough. Unless there is some sort of worldwide spiritual reappraisal going on that I am unaware of – your ‘feelings’ on the matter mean nothing. Intuition is for theologians, if you want to be taken seriously present the proof.

Cryptozoology is not a science – stop trying to fool yourself.

Cryptozoology is a belief system that falls somewhere in the murky grey area between zoology and myth. Even when new animals are discovered it’s not by so-called “cryptozoologistsâ€

[King three head]

well i never saw it but it seems its real

[CousinOfGodzilla]

There certainly is plenty of hoaxed info, as there is with every myth or legend. However one thing stands out in my mind. As unlikely as it would seem on paper that some huge bipedal primate lives within the woods surrounding us, undiscovered for so long. I find it equally ridiculous to suggest that with all the reports, and sightings, likely numbering within the thousands over the course of the last 100 years, that ALL of these should just so casually be dismissed as Mr.Stark says in his above article. What are we to believe? That EVERY single person who reported seeing something was drunk? That all of them were lying because they wanted notoreity and fame? Perhaps that all of them were simply mistaken in what they saw? Do some incidents fall within those ranges? Sure. But I simply find that to dismiss all of it in the way that is to be more than a little silly. I have a little more trust in people than to write ALL of these eyewitness reports off as hogwash. And as much as some people stretch to try to believe in such things as Bigfoot, Nessie, and Aliens, blanket dismissals from skeptics strike me as just as reaching in some instances.

[Stadawim]

Who is to say what is out there? By the same token, everyone has experienced a jokesters' prank either by a friend or stranger.

I like to think that there is enough unexplored area in the Northwest to envelope a creature like a Bigfoot. But then, if certain persons held a strong enough belief that this creature really could be a link from ape to man you'd think there would be more persistant searching and researching on the creature. Even so far as to run some kind of reconnaissance/surveillance with something like a satellite in IR to track any unknown beings in the region. But nothing; and no one seems THAT interested in furthering the search.

Again, i say i like to believe in it. But there REALLY needs to be a body found.

[Gfan54]

OK, well, I didn't get a chance to vote on this poll, but my answer would've been "undecided". Yeah, I know that to actually say that Bigfoot exists may sound like quite a stretch of the imagination, but you never know. New species of living organisms are always being discovered, and I really don't think any conclusive proof as to whether or not Bigfoot exists has ever really come forward, so, who knows? All I know is that the classic '68 home video footage is still enough to spook the crap out of me!!!

[kidnicky]

Well,I couldn't say it's definately not real. But I'd have to see a dead body. (and not on the cover of Weekly World News!)

[ultrazilla2000]

Where is info regarding all these supposed "thousands" of sightings??? More than one person on here said the word "thousands"...yet I sure haven't been graced with those kinds of statistics, and I've lived in the Pacific Northwest my entire life! I have numerous friends and family members who hike, hunt, fish, camp, and even work in the forestry service...and NONE of them (nor myself) have ever seen a bigfoot, nor know of anyone who has. Bears yes. Bigfoot, no.

I'm not saying it's impossible for this species to exist, but there really isn't as much evidence nor eye witnesses as people here are claiming.

[Bagoth]

It could be possible that Bigfoot isn't a natural species that hasn't been discovered yet. It could be something supernatural, possibly some sort of spirit like what the Indians have described him as.

[Destroyer]

i think bigfoot is not from earth i think he is extra terrestrial i mean it is weird that all of these years have gone by and not one captured.

or they may also come from underground from hiden caves.

[Foxtrot X-Ray]

I appear to be too late on the Poll, but I'll add my two cents..

First, I'll have to discount Any & all Supernatural explanations.
No offense to those who are supernaturally minded.. I just don't believe in the stuff.. I don't look down upon folks with different beliefs.

Okay..

Is there Room for a Breeding Population of 7 foot tall Homonids in the Paciffic Northwest, Swamps of the Southeast and whatever other territory the Sasquatch, Yeti, Skunk Ape, etc.. have been sighted?

Yes, I think So.

Is it POSSIBLE that a 7 foot tall, Intelligent & Skilled Homonid could avoid detection by Humans if He/she detected them FIRST?
(Is is possible that a 7-foot homonid could detect a human First, by sound, smell, etc..?)

Entirely so.


That said, I have to remain on the fence on the whole "Yes/No" Issue and say "maybe" simply because Films & Footprints can be faked (And are faked very frequently.. Ever read the story of the Boy who Cried Wolf?)

The Best Film evidence in existance is the Patterson Film, and sorry, it's just not convincing either way..
It's a damned good suit.. or it's a Big, Ugly Furry Girl.
Both sit equal in Plausibility to me..

[lhb412]

Perhaps, someday, this will be considered a legitimate field of inquiry (Liberal Arts schools need to fill up their curriculum somehow),

Ouch

That made me chuckle, but being an artistic guy who believes wholeheartedly in science and wouldn't mind going to a liberal arts school...

Ouch

[walshbeme]

As a native of Houston, Texas now living in Wichita, Kansas, I believe they do exist. Both states have had their share of sightings (family members included in east Texas) and some of the stories given are far too detailed to be disgarded. Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana are also hotspots These are not made up spook stories, people. Where ever there's some dense areas of trees, particularly in rural areas, with a creek or a swamp nearby, all I have to say is 'keep your eyes and ears open'. There's no tellin' what you might find (or what might find you).

[Dai]

http://www.cryptozoology.com/articles/plainsight.php

I lean towards bigfoot existing, but I'm not convinced totally. I find the article I've linked above a compelling experiment in how these creatures could have remained undetected. Expanding upon it is that humanity as a species becomes more blinkered and arrogant as it becomes further entrenched in its self-made cocoon of architecture, science and technology. Many of us go through our lives without ever developing the instincts or skills we would need to survive in the wild. If bigfoot exists and is a species of comparable or even greater intelligence than man, the average 21st century human would look like a bumbling child to them, and be easily evaded. An intelligent species need not destroy its environment and remake it to its liking, leaving behind obvious artifacts of their presence. That's extelligence, an entirely different concept. A small population of experienced nomadic hunters could run circles around us and we'd never know they were there.