Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

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Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Dr Kain » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:01 am

Curious, was the Final Wars suit originally supposed to be the 2000 design? I ask because there are a ton of images and concept art that show Godzilla having the large spines.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby planetxleader » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:02 pm

I'm guessing it was just the default "official" representation of Godzilla circa the Millennium era, probably incorporated into all the art before a suit design was settled on. It's probably no more than that.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:37 pm

On November 7, 2004, Henshin!Online posted an interview with monster suitmaker Shinichi Wakasa about his work on Godzilla: Final Wars. He didn't mention that the 1999/2000 suits were ever intended to be used in the film. Here's a relevant excerpt from that interview:

H!O: When you are building one of the monster suits, Godzilla for example, how much freedom do you have to rework the design?

WAKASA: I don't change the designs because there are already approved concepts created by three artists for this film. First was Mr. [Katsuya] Terada; he worked on Monster X. Next is Mr. Yasushi Nirasawa; he designed Gigan and the Xilians. The other monsters were designed by Shinji Nishikawa.

But this year was very interesting because Mr. Terada and Mr. Nirasawa were both very busy. For Monster X, only three pieces were drawn. The first design was a very rough sketch, then another draft of the front of the monster was done. That one was done in both color and black-and-white, but it was the same thing.

H!O: So the design of Monster X was finalized very quickly.

WAKASA: Yes, because Mr. Terada is very busy... a very busy designer.

H!O: For the past few films Mr. Nishikawa was in charge of the monster designs. Were other designers like Mr. Terada and Mr. Nirasawa brought onboard to bring more variety to the look of the movie?

WAKASA: They were hired at Mr. Kitamura's request.

H!O: Was the new FINAL WARS Godzilla concept design created by Mr. Nishikawa?

WAKASA: No. There was no new design.

H!O: Really? So how did the changes like the thinner body come about?

WAKASA: That was my company's creation.

H!O: Working with ideas from Mr. Kitamura, I assume.

WAKASA: And Mr. [Eiichi] Asada, yeah.

H!O: How about Godzilla's face? Was it your decision to have the new Godzilla be a composite of several of the older designs?

WAKASA: Yeah, I thought the look of the face was very important. This movie is the 50th Anniversary of the series so I gave Godzilla's appearance a lot of thought. Godzilla has a lot of hardcore fans, and if you ask a hundred of them what they'd want Godzilla to look like you'll get a hundred different answers: "I love the Mosugoji", "I love the Giragoji", "I love the Heisei Goji", or "Battogoji" or every other suit.

My first Godzilla suit was for GODZILLA 2000. Some people said "I hate it because it looks like a frog" or "Whatever it is, I don't like it". I understand their feelings, but Godzilla 2000 was not my design. [Special effects director Kenji] Suzuki and other crewmembers said to make the head bigger and to have the mouth go back farther.

H!O: So the hinge of the jaw was set far back behind the eyes.

WAKASA: Yeah, exactly. It was a very difficult job on GODZILLA 2000. I had a lot of ideas, but there was no time on the movie; there was only about 40 days, you know.

H!O: To build the suit?

WAKASA: Yes. I had to make a cast of Mr. [Tsutomu] Kitagawa's body, then sculpt the new Godzilla, do the molding, everything; the whole job in 40 days. It was very difficult. I was much more relaxed on GODZILLA AGAINST MECHAGODZILLA. In that case, Mr. [Masaaki] Tezuka was the only person making decisions about the suit and I trust Mr. Tezuka very much. He requested the smaller face and that Godzilla's mouth not be so big.

But this year is the 50th Anniversary so I thought of the Heisei Godzilla, and Mosugoji, and the '54 Godzilla. I think the new suit is a very good mix of them all.

H!O: What specific features from the older suits did you use?

WAKASA: I can't remember anymore. [laughs] I'm sorry.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby lhb412 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:23 pm

This comes from them using Yuji Sakai's original maquette for the G2K design as the basis for the early promo material. Why did they do this? I guess because they didn't have anything yet and they wanted something that looked cool.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:57 pm

lhb412 wrote:This comes from them using Yuji Sakai's original maquette for the G2K design as the basis for the early promo material. Why did they do this? I guess because they didn't have anything yet and they wanted something that looked cool.


The Godzilla featured on the initial Final Wars poster always looked like an illustration of the Miregoji/Giragoji suit designs to me. Looking at it more closely now, yeah, I guess that is supposed to be Sakai's original design.

The Miregoji/Giragoji suit design was featured in the early concept art of Godzilla in Tokyo after destroying Monster X's meteor.

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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:49 am

Oh, hey I remember that image on the Final Wars site fairly early on. :D
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:04 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:
lhb412 wrote:This comes from them using Yuji Sakai's original maquette for the G2K design as the basis for the early promo material. Why did they do this? I guess because they didn't have anything yet and they wanted something that looked cool.


The Godzilla featured on the initial Final Wars poster always looked like an illustration of the Miregoji/Giragoji suit designs to me. Looking at it more closely now, yeah, I guess that is supposed to be Sakai's original design.

The Miregoji/Giragoji suit design was featured in the early concept art of Godzilla in Tokyo after destroying Monster X's meteor.

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Yeah, that was the image I was mainly referring to.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:28 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:Oh, hey I remember that image on the Final Wars site fairly early on. :D


It's crazy to think that it's been a full decade since Final Wars. It was such a fun experience leading up to that movie: the big news announcements on sites like Monster Zero, the revelation of the kaiju concept art and eventual suits, interviews with cast and crew members on Henshin!Online, the new 50th anniversary DVD releases from Sony and ADV, the trailers and TV spots, and the hype surrounding the world premiere of the film in Hollywood and Godzilla's accompanying star on the Walk of Fame.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby DannyBeane » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:05 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:Oh, hey I remember that image on the Final Wars site fairly early on. :D


It's crazy to think that it's been a full decade since Final Wars. It was such a fun experience leading up to that movie: the big news announcements on sites like Monster Zero, the revelation of the kaiju concept art and eventual suits, interviews with cast and crew members on Henshin!Online, the new 50th anniversary DVD releases from Sony and ADV, the trailers and TV spots, and the hype surrounding the world premiere of the film in Hollywood and Godzilla's accompanying star on the Walk of Fame.

And this website actually had traffic, more traffic than the 2014 film.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby lhb412 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:27 pm

DannyBeane wrote:And this website actually had traffic, more traffic than the 2014 film.


That's really the evolution of the internet. People post on specialized forums less and less and simply discuss their interests everywhere. Ask a question about your favorite TV show on Twitter and someone involved in the show is likely to tweet back.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:50 pm

DannyBeane wrote:And this website actually had traffic, more traffic than the 2014 film.


Oh yeah, and once that first camrip digital file of GFW began circulating among the fandom in early 2005... Hoo doggie! Never before had a Godzilla movie so sharply divided this fandom and generated such a chaotic explosion of heated debates. This year's new American reboot may have garnered some mixed reactions from the fandom but any kerfluffle from that has been downright quaint compared to the initial reaction to Final Wars in 2005.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby jellydonut25 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:42 am

lhb412 wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:And this website actually had traffic, more traffic than the 2014 film.


That's really the evolution of the internet. People post on specialized forums less and less and simply discuss their interests everywhere. Ask a question about your favorite TV show on Twitter and someone involved in the show is likely to tweet back.

Yeah...it's hard to even find active forums for certain fandoms that you'd think would actually have them...ie, POTA. When Dawn was coming out I kinda went out looking for an Apes board out there and the best I could do was one where people would occasionally post images of Ape cosplays they'd done semi-recently.

Social media has kinda killed message boards (not KILLED, but certainly put a dent in membership and participation). Hell, many long-time MZers don't even post regularly anymore and just stick with FB.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby DannyBeane » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:21 am

With the exception of the Godzilla Collectors Group on facebook I hate 99% of the social network groups and don't feel like I make any connections with the people on them. The only reason I think I've had such a good time on the Godzilla Collectors Group is because a lot of the members are old Monster Zero/Club Tokyo posters. Twitter is awful. Monster Zero is the only place I really feel like I belong and this place feels like its slowly dying.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby walshiam » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:46 pm

It's not like it was in the mid '90's when Aaron was still around. The passion just isn't there anymore. As for Face book and Twitter, I have nor will I have no interest in them, even though many celebs frequent those to mingle with fans and each other. It just isn't the same anymore but I still feel like I belong here.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:43 pm

DannyBeane wrote:With the exception of the Godzilla Collectors Group on facebook I hate 99% of the social network groups and don't feel like I make any connections with the people on them. The only reason I think I've had such a good time on the Godzilla Collectors Group is because a lot of the members are old Monster Zero/Club Tokyo posters. Twitter is awful. Monster Zero is the only place I really feel like I belong and this place feels like its slowly dying.


I'm in a few Godzilla FB groups. Some revolve around collecting and others I rarely post in. Social Media groups are too often full of trolls, so I don't bother. I love MZ but the traffic has certainly slowed down - Kaijuphile (formerly Rodan's Roost) is basically dead now and I used to frequent there. We have what - 3+ years before the next G film? You'll see an increase of traffic then.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby Reaper G » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:48 am

I'm on 3-4 Facebook groups, and I'm still here. Best of both worlds.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby DannyBeane » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:05 pm

Hybrid Gojira wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:With the exception of the Godzilla Collectors Group on facebook I hate 99% of the social network groups and don't feel like I make any connections with the people on them. The only reason I think I've had such a good time on the Godzilla Collectors Group is because a lot of the members are old Monster Zero/Club Tokyo posters. Twitter is awful. Monster Zero is the only place I really feel like I belong and this place feels like its slowly dying.


I'm in a few Godzilla FB groups. Some revolve around collecting and others I rarely post in. Social Media groups are too often full of trolls, so I don't bother. I love MZ but the traffic has certainly slowed down - Kaijuphile (formerly Rodan's Roost) is basically dead now and I used to frequent there. We have what - 3+ years before the next G film? You'll see an increase of traffic then.

When I was new to the online fandom Rodan's Roost was where I spent most of my time. I visited that place for the first time in years a few weeks ago and that place is dead. Its a shame forums are dying off.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:57 pm

I didn't even mean FB groups...just that people here have made friends with each other on FB and now only just talk to each other on there.

Personally, I try to remain active on here, because I never would have made friends with some of the people I talk to on FB if not for these boards, and it doesn't make sense to then not come around here anymore...because what if I make friends with someone else? What if someone new comes around and we basically wind up being BFFs? What if klen7 suddenly stops being terrible? What if something else that I can't even conceive of at the moment? I don't wanna miss whatever that is!
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby klen7 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:28 pm

Hey... I resemble that remark!
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:45 am

I can't really stand the facebook groups. I don't mind stuff popping up on my dash, but any time I've entered into a discussion it just. Well, I'd rather just post about stuff here, plus I'm fairly fond of this place having spent WAY too many hours on here since what feels like forever.
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Re: Was the Final Wars suit supposed to be the 2000 design?

Postby lhb412 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:30 pm

Oh, another big thing replacing boards besides social media: comment sections have exploded! People select a favorite site and become a frequent commentator. Some sites have entirely puerile comments, but on others I find the comments essential, often more informative and entertaining than the articles.

Oddly, this is a throwback. Before the internet long-distance fan discussion was conducted via the letters sections of comics and magazines.
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