TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Dr Kain » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:09 pm

Battle Royale was not Kitamura.

And Kitamura does not suck. I would rather watch Azumi, Versus, Skyhigh, and Aragami over pretty much any action movie Japan has given us in the last 10 years sans The Returner. The man knows how to do style. He is the Robert Rodriguez of Japan.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby DannyBeane » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:49 pm

Dr Kain wrote:Battle Royale was not Kitamura.

And Kitamura does not suck. I would rather watch Azumi, Versus, Skyhigh, and Aragami over pretty much any action movie Japan has given us in the last 10 years sans The Returner. The man knows how to do style. He is the Robert Rodriguez of Japan.

My mistake I was thinking Versus. I definitely enjoyed Versus. Also Midnight Meat Train was pretty fun.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:17 am

DannyBeane wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:Battle Royale was not Kitamura.

And Kitamura does not suck. I would rather watch Azumi, Versus, Skyhigh, and Aragami over pretty much any action movie Japan has given us in the last 10 years sans The Returner. The man knows how to do style. He is the Robert Rodriguez of Japan.

My mistake I was thinking Versus. I definitely enjoyed Versus. Also Midnight Meat Train was pretty fun.


Yeah, I like Meat Train, but I was talking about his action movies. Meat Train was something different.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Inui Takumi » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:16 am

Dr Kain wrote:Battle Royale was not Kitamura.

And Kitamura does not suck. I would rather watch Azumi, Versus, Skyhigh, and Aragami over pretty much any action movie Japan has given us in the last 10 years sans The Returner. The man knows how to do style. He is the Robert Rodriguez of Japan.


As much as I liked Versus the last time I saw it, I'd take the Rurouni Kenshin movies over that any day. The action in that is so well done and it has more weight to them.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:32 am

Dr Kain wrote:It isn't The Raid's style (still don't get what the hype is about those movies).

The first one is just a simple, straightforward ass-kickin' movie. If you like Dredd, you should like The Raid.

The second is more dense, expands the universe, and adds depth to the characters. It coulda been quite a bit shorter, but it's still got great fight scenes and action.



Dr Kain wrote:
DannyBeane wrote:Battle Royale was not Kitamura.

And Kitamura does not suck. I would rather watch Azumi, Versus, Skyhigh, and Aragami over pretty much any action movie Japan has given us in the last 10 years sans The Returner. The man knows how to do style. He is the Robert Rodriguez of Japan.

My mistake I was thinking Versus. I definitely enjoyed Versus. Also Midnight Meat Train was pretty fun.
Yeah, Kitamura isn't a bad director. Even if I hated GFW the way so many people do, I'd be able to see that. One bad movie doesn't invalidate a resume of good to great films.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Fri May 22, 2015 2:48 am

Just watched this film for the first time in a long time.

It sucks.

My wife saw a few brief moments of it and used the word "Matrix" as a way of comparison.

Exactly.

That's why this movie is so bad - even insulting - because it was supposed to be an Anniversary film. Instead, we got loads of unnecessary (over the top) fighting, motorcycles, and one of the worst soundtracks for a Godzilla film. No amount of Don Frye's impeccable mustache can redeem this film, and it also has the absolute WORST "Ghidorah" of all time. Actually, most of the monster designs suck or are poorly realized (not all - Mothra is amazingly well done).

Now...there are some good ideas in this film. Paying homage to previous Toho movies and amalgamating some of their ideas works to a point, but there's too much going on to be a cohesive movie.

Oh...and the SPFX are wildly inconsistent. The wirework sucks, the props are lifeless, and the CGI is atrocious. GFW simply lacks the soul and charm that most Godzilla movies have because it's barely a Godzilla film to begin with, and it's sad that THIS pile of garbage is what Toho had as a send off for their prize character.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Dr Kain » Tue May 26, 2015 6:18 pm

Yeah, definitely have to disagree with you on most of those. Over the top fighting is Kitamura's style. That is who he is.

The Godzilla battle music is awesome.

The wirework is awesome as are the camera angles.

The CGI is awful in every Godzilla movie Toho has done, so this shouldn't truly count against it because this is standard.

The thing that makes this movie better than say SpaceGodzilla is that it is a fun movie. I can sit down and watch it at any given time. I can show it to friends who aren't Godzilla fans and they will find something in it to enjoy. It's just that it makes a better action movie than a Godzilla movie.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Jorzilla » Tue May 26, 2015 7:02 pm

Non-fans who like Final Wars enjoy it because it validates what they know about Godzilla. Bad special effects, pointless action, and a stupid story without redeeming qualities. It's a film that you laugh at. It's why I refuse to show it to my friends.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue May 26, 2015 9:49 pm

Dr Kain wrote:Over the top fighting is Kitamura's style. That is who he is.


You're right - that is who Kitamura is...but definitely NOT what Godzilla ever was. And that's why it was the wrong choice from the start.

The Godzilla battle music is awesome.


No accounting for taste - I liked some of the music - but it wasn't befitting a Godzilla film. Of course, since this is barely a Godzilla movie, maybe that works. :shrug:

Most of the music, for me anyway, is horrible.

The wirework is awesome as are the camera angles.


The wirework is, at best, uneven. Mothra looks great in her 5 seconds of real wirework, but Kamacuras never comes across as anything more than a puppet. Kumonga is equally uneven - cool in one shot and lifeless in the next. The wirework in Son of G is 10 times better, as is anything from GTTHM or MZ.

The CGI is awful in every Godzilla movie Toho has done, so this shouldn't truly count against it because this is standard.


GFW uses an absurd amount of CGI compared to most Godzilla films, yet it still looks bad. You typically have 1 or 2 scenes from these movies that last less than 15 seconds, but in GFW it is the opposite - Zilla is all (crappy) CGI. Kamacuras is partial CG. Much of Rodan is CG. I'm not being overly hard on the film for overusing bad CGI since most G movies have a fraction of CGI use.

The thing that makes this movie better than say SpaceGodzilla is that it is a fun movie. I can sit down and watch it at any given time. I can show it to friends who aren't Godzilla fans and they will find something in it to enjoy. It's just that it makes a better action movie than a Godzilla movie.


I can agree it's better than Space Godzilla, but then what isn't (besides GvsMothra92)?
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Dr Kain » Wed May 27, 2015 12:32 am

Oh, when you said wire work, I thought you mean the wire work between the fights of the human characters, not the monsters. For the monsters, I'll agree.

Zilla was done in all CG on purpose. That sad thing is, the CG for him here looks way better than it does in the 98 film.

You're right about Kitamura should not have been picked for this movie, and I agree. However, he was, so I look at this as a more of a Kitamura movie than a Godzilla movie.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby XvGojira » Wed May 27, 2015 2:50 am

Dr Kain wrote:Zilla was done in all CG on purpose. That sad thing is, the CG for him here looks way better than it does in the 98 film.


So you're saying that this and this look worse than this?

I know people love looking at this movie with crap smeared glasses, but seriously Dinocroc is more on par with Final Wars than G98. Japan has shown again and again that it can rarely output the same quality of CG work like the big US studios can.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Wed May 27, 2015 8:44 am

Dr Kain wrote:Oh, when you said wire work, I thought you mean the wire work between the fights of the human characters, not the monsters. For the monsters, I'll agree.


Ahhhh, gotcha.

Zilla was done in all CG on purpose. That sad thing is, the CG for him here looks way better than it does in the 98 film.


GINO's effects do not hold up particularly well, but the CG is better than what we get from GFW.

You're right about Kitamura should not have been picked for this movie, and I agree. However, he was, so I look at this as a more of a Kitamura movie than a Godzilla movie.


Yeah, I get that...Toho should be slapped for making the decision to begin with.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Legion » Wed May 27, 2015 2:38 pm

I hate this movie.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed May 27, 2015 11:04 pm

Legion wrote:I hate this movie.

Good for you.


I don't. I think it has its merits, and I'd argue it has more than quite a few Godzilla movies. I could take this movie, and with maybe like a few hours of reshoots and some time in the editing room, make it a movie that I personally would be 100% satisfied with and love to pieces.

I can't say the same for all the films in the franchise.

Kain has already pointed out a lot of good things about this movie, and I agree with most of them.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Jorzilla » Thu May 28, 2015 11:35 am

Final Wars biggest merit is setting the bar extremely low for the rest of the franchise.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby walshiam » Thu May 28, 2015 1:21 pm

That's the point. The film was deliberately intended to be a rip off of other popular sci-fi films. It was not intended to out do them.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu May 28, 2015 2:41 pm

I don't hate it, but I feel like I don't enjoy it as much as I used to. It and Destroy All Monsters are neck and neck in my list. It really depends on my mood on which I consider better. Both suffer from being somewhat sluggish at times. The weaknesses are definitely in the human scenes.

I feel like Final Wars would be something I love if it'd just be a bit more insane...like...just go Fury Road insane with it.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Dr Kain » Fri May 29, 2015 12:33 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:I don't hate it, but I feel like I don't enjoy it as much as I used to. It and Destroy All Monsters are neck and neck in my list. It really depends on my mood on which I consider better. Both suffer from being somewhat sluggish at times. The weaknesses are definitely in the human scenes.

I feel like Final Wars would be something I love if it'd just be a bit more insane...like...just go Fury Road insane with it.


I can definitely agree with you there. I think they are both in the middle of my film ranking as it were.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Jared » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:20 am

This film's boundless energy works both for and against it. On one hand, it's completely childish and obnoxious, but it also makes it a blast to watch if I'm in the right mood.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:22 pm

Jared wrote:This film's boundless energy works both for and against it. On one hand, it's completely childish and obnoxious, but it also makes it a blast to watch if I'm in the right mood.


I've never felt this way about GFW. Every time I've watched the film I've walked away with a sense of disappointment. The sad part is I actually like some of the story concepts and Don Frye. He's the "so bad, it's good" kinda thing about this movie I can get on board with. I really hate how the monsters are not quite the focus of the film. The mutants take too much time away from what could have been a fun ride. I don't mind Godzilla trouncing every monster, but most of the fights were so quick and boring that I lose interest.

And Keizer Ghidorah sucks. I wrote that earlier in the thread but it is absolutely true...what a terrible monster concept.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:21 pm

I remember this image popping up before the film came out:
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Or at least, something very similar, along with the promotional images that showed Monster X at the South Pole with Godzilla and Gigan, and all that made me think "Monster X is gonna slowly mutate into Ghidorah over the course of the film. That's actually a pretty cool concept."
And then that didn't happen. At all.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Specium Ray » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:43 pm

Kaiser Gidorah was actually my favorite part! Aside from Don Frye, of course.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:20 pm

I remember seeing that exact same image in summer 2004, jelly. There was another Photoshopped take on Anguirus (very Showa-esque) floating around before the suits were revealed.

Following the development of this movie was so much fun.
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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Psycho Soldier » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:24 pm

Benjamin Haines wrote:There was another Photoshopped take on Anguirus (very Showa-esque) floating around before the suits were revealed.


This bad boy right here?

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Re: TALKBACK #28: Godzilla Final Wars

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:45 pm

That's the one.
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