TALKBACK #27: Godzilla Tokyo SOS

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

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Postby Cookie » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:51 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:Crisis averted.

That's interesting...though I mean...Godzilla Legends Issue 1 specifically has flashbacks to what looks like Godzilla vs. Gigan, and some other Showa films. Though that's in the art and probably not in the script itself.


That IDW story was actually pretty decent. Anyway, I guess those aren't DIRECT since the story didn't actually evolve around those Showa films. I thought that was a best part of that story too. That page was awesome!
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:54 am

Yeah, I love that comic, it's probably my favorite issue of any of their Godzilla comics.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:48 pm

You know what I just remembered?

Tezuka originally wanted Angilas to be the dead monster that washes up, not Kameba.

I would have HATED that.

Tezuka... wtf, bro?! :x
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:17 pm

MouthForWar wrote:You know what I just remembered?

Tezuka originally wanted Angilas to be the dead monster that washes up, not Kameba.

I would have HATED that.

Tezuka... wtf, bro?! :x
Really? I wouldn't have cared about that...
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:22 pm

I would have. He's a beloved, iconic character in the series, not a washed up carcass cameo. HEY YOU KNOW THAT CHARACTER YOU LOVED AND HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE THE 70'S? HERE'S HIS BODY!

It would be like if Batman found the Riddler's body in the sewer in the Dark Knight Rises. Someone obscure like Kameba is much better suited (just as for Batman it would be someone like Film Freak or something)

F*ck that. Toho were in the right by making him change it.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:26 pm

MouthForWar wrote:It would be like if Batman found the Riddler's body in the sewer in the Dark Knight Rises.
oh you mean like the line about the mutant alligator in the sewers?


please. personally, i think it would have been a nice nod from Tezuka to have it be Anguirus. It shows he was paying attention to the GMK production that wanted to use Anguirus AND since he didn't have a really good idea for how to use the monster, it shows that he wouldn't have tried to shoe-horn an Anguirus storyline into the film. It would have been a nice cameo.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:30 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:It would be like if Batman found the Riddler's body in the sewer in the Dark Knight Rises.
oh you mean like the line about the mutant alligator in the sewers?


What? What does a joke about the myth of "alligators in the sewers" in TDKR have to do with... anything?


jellydonut25 wrote:please. personally, i think it would have been a nice nod from Tezuka to have it be Anguirus. It shows he was paying attention to the GMK production that wanted to use Anguirus AND since he didn't have a really good idea for how to use the monster, it shows that he wouldn't have tried to shoe-horn an Anguirus storyline into the film. It would have been a nice cameo.


I don't think Tezuka's desire to use Angilas has anything to do with GMK.

And I guess we'll have to disagree, but I don't think showing up as a dead body is a nice cameo for one of the popular monsters in the series.

Again, Kameba is a waaaay better fit.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:38 pm

MouthForWar wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:It would be like if Batman found the Riddler's body in the sewer in the Dark Knight Rises.
oh you mean like the line about the mutant alligator in the sewers?


What? What does a joke about the myth of "alligators in the sewers" in TDKR have to do with... anything?
Killer Croc.




and as much as I hate to slight Anguirus...I'd argue that Ghidorah, Mechagodzilla, Rodan, Mothra, and Gigan are all more popular...which puts Anguius kinda sorta a little further down the list.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:39 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:It would be like if Batman found the Riddler's body in the sewer in the Dark Knight Rises.
oh you mean like the line about the mutant alligator in the sewers?


What? What does a joke about the myth of "alligators in the sewers" in TDKR have to do with... anything?
Killer Croc.


I really hope you aren't buying into the fanboy wish that its a reference to Killer Croc. It was nothing more than Blake referring to the ineptness of the police force and how they actually think they are dumb for not believing him. It was Blake saying the GPD aren't taking him seriously and laughing him off and saying his statement is just as stupid as the myth of alligators in sewers. The GPD are making fun of Blake. Hence why its gotten laughs at every screening I've been to.

I chuckled when I saw that people thought that was a Croc reference just like I chuckled when I thought people saying "Mister Reese" in TDK was a Riddler reference. There's nothing in either movie to suggest either (and boy, talk about fan conjecture :wink:)
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:42 pm

eh, whatever...i wouldn't have cared then if Batman stumbled across Riddler's bloody beaten body in the sewers and there had been something about someone that had wanted to rise up and challenge Batman but Bane just killed him.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:44 pm

See, I think that's lame. Some characters should get a little more respect.

I mean, if it was Zasz or something, that's one thing, but not these fan favorites. Especially one like Angilas that people love and haven't seen in decades... just like I'd rather see a REAL Nolan take on the Riddler than a battered body. Someone more obscure is a way better choice.

As far as Angilas' popularity, I think its waned over the last few years (Gigan didn't seem too popular until the video games got big- Gigan seems to be huge with younger children). But I'd say he's one of the more popular monsters outside of the big 5 of Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan, MG, and KG.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Actually, my understanding is that Anguirus' popularity in Japan isn't much to speak of at all. As in Baragon - of all monsters - is a ton more popular. Anguirus' popularity is much more of a Western phenomenon.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:27 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:Actually, my understanding is that Anguirus' popularity in Japan isn't much to speak of at all. As in Baragon - of all monsters - is a ton more popular. Anguirus' popularity is much more of a Western phenomenon.


I've heard that as well and its utterly baffling to me considering how much more prominent Anguirus is in the series.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:30 pm

The Japanese have a thing for cuteness, which Baragon has infinitely more over Anguirus. Plus, Anguirus' appearances in the series after DAM had less to do with him being a fan favorite and more to do with the fact that his suit wasn't in as terrible condition as the old Baragon suit.

I too prefer Kameba being the washed-up carcass but I can't say Anguirus would've offended me much. I'd see it as an homage to Raids Again more than anything else.
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Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:15 pm

It would have been cool if Tokyo SOS had an opening credits sequence interspersed with silent, music-only shots of Godzilla and Anguirus battling on a remote island without showing the outcome. Then Anguirus' carcass washes onto Japanese shore later in the film.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:04 pm

kiryugoji04 wrote:The Japanese have a thing for cuteness, which Baragon has infinitely more over Anguirus. Plus, Anguirus' appearances in the series after DAM had less to do with him being a fan favorite and more to do with the fact that his suit wasn't in as terrible condition as the old Baragon suit.


I thought the DAM Angilas was a new suit.
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Postby MouthForWar » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:20 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:The Japanese have a thing for cuteness, which Baragon has infinitely more over Anguirus. Plus, Anguirus' appearances in the series after DAM had less to do with him being a fan favorite and more to do with the fact that his suit wasn't in as terrible condition as the old Baragon suit.


I thought the DAM Angilas was a new suit.


It was.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:51 pm

MouthForWar wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:The Japanese have a thing for cuteness, which Baragon has infinitely more over Anguirus. Plus, Anguirus' appearances in the series after DAM had less to do with him being a fan favorite and more to do with the fact that his suit wasn't in as terrible condition as the old Baragon suit.


I thought the DAM Angilas was a new suit.


It was.


Ah, I just misread that or something. I thought Jared was implying that the Angilas suit wasn't in the same terrible condition as Baragon.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:36 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I thought Jared was implying that the Angilas suit wasn't in the same terrible condition as Baragon.
that it was he was implying...

ie, the reason Anguirus was included in Gigan and Mechagodzilla is that the suit was in decent shape and the Baragon suit was a trainwreck.
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Postby The Real McCoy » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:40 pm

It's just weird to think that Baragon was even considered for those two movies.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:47 pm

The Real McCoy wrote:It's just weird to think that Baragon was even considered for those two movies.
I guess to us it is, but (and it's difficult to speak to this accurately because I can't think of things that are popular here that i know for a fact aren't popular in other countries) it'd be kind of like if Clint Eastwood did a cameo all dressed up in his Man with No Name getup in some new Western or something...or was CONSIDERED for it, and then later decided he couldn't do it so they did Lee Van Cleef.

It's hard to draw a good comparison, because like I said, I don't know, but Baragon may have seemed like the most natural choice for the Japanese...
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:47 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:I thought Jared was implying that the Angilas suit wasn't in the same terrible condition as Baragon.
that it was he was implying...

ie, the reason Anguirus was included in Gigan and Mechagodzilla is that the suit was in decent shape and the Baragon suit was a trainwreck.


Okay..I thought we were talking about DAM, for some weird ass reason. :lol: I think I just saw "DAM" and not the "after"
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Postby The Real McCoy » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:52 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:It's hard to draw a good comparison, because like I said, I don't know, but Baragon may have seemed like the most natural choice for the Japanese...


I have heard some say that Baragon is more popular over there than Anguirus. So yeah, if you think about it that way it does make some sense.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:08 am

Every time I watch this movie I want to like it more than I do...

it's the follow-up to what is perhaps my favorite Millenium film and possibly one of my ten favorite films of the entire series (i'll have to ruminate on that a little bit more), it returns the same WONDERFUL composer from the previous film, and the effects are improved...


...but the cast of characters pretty much SUCKS. I mean, Chujo is basically the only character in the entire thing that is a character with a character arc, and his character doesn't change or evolve much at all throughout the course of the film. I also don't like the idea of this being a DIRECT sequel and not really returning any of the major characters except in quick cameos.

yeah the monster action is top-notch, but it's so interspliced with scenes of these bland, underdeveloped characters interacting that it isn't compelling. the editing of the action sequences also leaves a lot to be desired, as i've stated before.

also, the resolution to the monster action has never sat well with me and always feels a bit anticlimactic. in GxMG, one of the planes had to dive-bomb Godzilla's mouth to give Kiryu a chance to fire off the absolute zero cannon, but the main character doesn't want to kill her newfound colleague so she decides she's going to try to dispatch Godzilla AND save her friend...it's tense and well-done.
in this movie, Godzilla gets drilled for a little bit, then he just stands still while he's coccooned.
this monster, that has been presented as the monster of monsters in both films, that has stood up to maser attacks, and missiles, and bombs, and guns, and lasers, and poison dust clouds, and a freaking gun that fires a -273 degree energy burst is taken out by a drill to the midsection? argh.

also, the mothra concept is TOTALLY wasted here.
"Mothra will help you if you do not use Kiryu"
'Kiryu, join the fight!'
And mothra still helps...and nobody is concerned for a second that she/they won't.

so, while this movie improves in the effects department, it falters in just about every other aspect.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:29 am

But doesn't Mothra get summoned to Tokyo and ends up encountering Godzilla already before Kiryu is used?
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