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Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:33 pm
by Mac
Dr Kain wrote: The GMK one has a beer gut.


I'm pretty sure this is intended though. Godzilla is supposed to be evil personified, so it's not a stretch that he'd have gluttonous attributes.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:56 am
by Dr Kain
So I have a question out of curiosity. There is apparently some book that says the following Showa movies are part of the Kiryu universe:

Varan
The Mysterians
King Kong Escapes
Dogora
Gorath

How is this the case when there is nothing in either movie to show this? They never mentioned aliens having invaded Japan at all and isn't KKE not even part of the actual Toho canon universe even in the Showa era?

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:34 am
by kiryugoji04
Dr Kain wrote:So I have a question out of curiosity. There is apparently some book that says the following Showa movies are part of the Kiryu universe:

Varan
The Mysterians
King Kong Escapes
Dogora
Gorath

How is this the case when there is nothing in either movie to show this? They never mentioned aliens having invaded Japan at all and isn't KKE not even part of the actual Toho canon universe even in the Showa era?


There's a timeline of sorts on the back cover, underneath the dust jacket of the Fantastic Collection Tokyo SOS book. I've seen scans before and I own the book myself but I don't have it handy to take a picture. It's weird. Also, I'm not sure each specific event from those movies is considered canon to Tokyo SOS, just the monster attacks? Something like that. If I think about it, I'll try and snap a picture when I'm back at my apartment.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:28 am
by Dr Kain
kiryugoji04 wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:So I have a question out of curiosity. There is apparently some book that says the following Showa movies are part of the Kiryu universe:

Varan
The Mysterians
King Kong Escapes
Dogora
Gorath

How is this the case when there is nothing in either movie to show this? They never mentioned aliens having invaded Japan at all and isn't KKE not even part of the actual Toho canon universe even in the Showa era?


There's a timeline of sorts on the back cover, underneath the dust jacket of the Fantastic Collection Tokyo SOS book. I've seen scans before and I own the book myself but I don't have it handy to take a picture. It's weird. Also, I'm not sure each specific event from those movies is considered canon to Tokyo SOS, just the monster attacks? Something like that. If I think about it, I'll try and snap a picture when I'm back at my apartment.


Thanks.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:37 pm
by kiryugoji04
Actually, I found it on the interwebs:

Image

So yeah, looks like it's monsters and time periods, not literal movie events. Regardless, it paints a much more interesting picture of the universe than what was actually presented to us in the films. Sigh.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:36 pm
by Dr Kain
I definitely think the universe they gave us in the movies was fantastic though.

What is that under 1987?

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:55 pm
by MekaGojira3k
A Kamoeba.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:15 pm
by kiryugoji04
Like almost every Godzilla movie produced after 1989, it was an interesting element that was never really satisfactorily developed.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:27 am
by jellydonut25
Hm. I can't personally consider them all a part of the universe though. I mean, we're told Mothra and the Gargantuas and we see Kamoeba, so was can be pretty comfortable in assuming all those movies and anything really directly connected with them...but Rodan? Manda? Dogora? Varan? we're given no hints these creatures were part of this world.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:35 am
by kiryugoji04
Yeah, that's the thing. Nothing actively denies that timeline and it's a really cool notion but nothing in the movies really makes those connections so it doesn't really feel worthwhile at all. It's a shame they didn't do more with things like Kameba's cameo and such. It had potential to be one of the most interesting Godzilla continuities (Showa MONSTERS EVERYWHERE! + Heisei-style Anti-Monster Squad) but instead it's one of the most vanilla apart from a paltry handful of nifty ideas.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:53 am
by Dr Kain
Yeah, but you know what, the Kiryu movies are solid entires, so I'm okay with that. We know other monsters existed and have attacked Japan since the first Godzilla. It still would be cool to have more movies that take place in this universe be it another Godzilla movie or even just another Kaiju in general.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:46 am
by jellydonut25
I think the inclusion of some other kaiju is neat and then explains why there would (a) even BE an anti-kaiju task force in the first place and (b) why they'd be confident in that task force.

But adding more than what is mentioned in the movies doesn't add anything. And yeah, the kamoeba cameo in SOS is kinda worthless.

My biggest issue with SOS though is and has always been that the old cast jumped ship and the new cast is terrible and uninteresting with no character development.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:13 am
by Dr Kain
I can't argue you there, as I agree about them jumping ship on the old cast (not sure why they did that), but at least the main character was not another soldier or scientist. Not to mention he was related to the awesome Chujo from Mothra. Other highlights to SOS are its monster battles, Mothra costume (the best since the original IMO), the music, and effects. OMG, the miniatures are absolutely fantastic. Also, I'm glad Godzilla no longer just stands there lifelessly to get pummeled by missiles.

Sometimes I do think both Kiryu movies might have benefited had their run times been 15 minutes longer like their predecessors, especially SOS, but other times I think maybe being 88 and 91 minutes was perfect so that it didn't drag out pointless scenes. If there is one thing I have learned from watching Sentai over the years, is is how amazingly a four minute difference can make an episode. Half of my favorite Sentai series are those that run about 17 minutes when you take out the opening and ending credits (Dai, Kaku, Zyu, Jet, Car) as they feel fast paced and do not drag, while all of the series that are 21 minutes long without the credits at times can feel like they are dragging, even episodes from my favorite series.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:22 am
by kiryugoji04
I rewatched this and Tokyo SOS today. Ugh. It's sad, because I used to love this one so much when I first saw it back in high school and the few years after that but now I'm afraid I'm going to like it significantly less with each viewing. For every really cool thing it does, it does something, well, not so cool. And while I still like Akane's character and motivation in concept, the script gives Shaku NOTHING to work with. It just has her explain her situation like an emo high schooler on a live journal. Sara is also dead weight. The scientist dad guy is the one character in the film who's kind of entertaining to watch.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:44 pm
by DannyBeane
kiryugoji04 wrote:I rewatched this and Tokyo SOS today. Ugh. It's sad, because I used to love this one so much when I first saw it back in high school and the few years after that but now I'm afraid I'm going to like it significantly less with each viewing. For every really cool thing it does, it does something, well, not so cool. And while I still like Akane's character and motivation in concept, the script gives Shaku NOTHING to work with. It just has her explain her situation like an emo high schooler on a live journal. Sara is also dead weight. The scientist dad guy is the one character in the film who's kind of entertaining to watch.

Agreed, while the action scenes and spfx are pretty cool for both GXMG and TokyoSOS, I feel like the characters have really taken a nose dive.
*Puts on rose colored glasses*
One of the things I love about the 60s, 70s and even 80s films is that they had a lot of fun characters that were relatable and also stood out. The 90s and Millenium films seemed to have some of the most bland poorly fleshed out characters. I liked a few of the characters from G2k, and GMK also had some quality characters, and even GFW (a film I generally loathe) had some fun cartoony characters, but most of the later films just had cardboard characters that stood around watching monitors while providing exposition.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:47 am
by Dr Kain
Oh yeah, those characters from Destroy All Monsters are such deep characters. We learn so much about who they are as people and see them all as best friends.

And then we have Yukio and Miki from Hedorah, who are just so great characters that they abandon a 10 year old child. Simply amazing.

Now if I were to compare the characters to those in Mothra vs and GTTHM, then I would agree. However, that is unfair because those characters were not only amazing, but they were written for the 60s.

The characters in the Heisei era are written for the 90s and the ones from the Millennium era are written for the 2000s. The world is a different place during each period. You can't compare them. That would be like comparing a 60s Batman to a 90s Batman to a 2015 Batman.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:11 am
by klen7
I like the characters in this movie.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:23 pm
by MekaGojira3k
I like these characters well enough, too. (They're an improvement on the versions in X Megaguirus, that's for sure) I don't think the Millennium series characters are THAT inferior to Showa era stuff. (At least not as inferior than 90s Heisei)

I think S.O.S. would have benefited from something other than the Tezuka structure of "outsider deals with issues while facing Godzilla". The mechanic aspect is kind of cool but I would have loved that concept more if we were just seeing a group of mechanics dealing with Kiryu as he faces Godzilla and other monsters. I'm sure the Mothra element really kept things like that from happening, too.
...this is more of an SOS discussion...anyway..

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:15 pm
by MouthForWar
jellydonut25 wrote:Hm. I can't personally consider them all a part of the universe though. I mean, we're told Mothra and the Gargantuas and we see Kamoeba, so was can be pretty comfortable in assuming all those movies and anything really directly connected with them...but Rodan? Manda? Dogora? Varan? we're given no hints these creatures were part of this world.


I believe their names are labelled on the DNA drawers in the post credits scene of SOS

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:52 pm
by jellydonut25
MouthForWar wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:Hm. I can't personally consider them all a part of the universe though. I mean, we're told Mothra and the Gargantuas and we see Kamoeba, so was can be pretty comfortable in assuming all those movies and anything really directly connected with them...but Rodan? Manda? Dogora? Varan? we're given no hints these creatures were part of this world.


I believe their names are labelled on the DNA drawers in the post credits scene of SOS

Image

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:50 am
by Dr Kain
MouthForWar wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:Hm. I can't personally consider them all a part of the universe though. I mean, we're told Mothra and the Gargantuas and we see Kamoeba, so was can be pretty comfortable in assuming all those movies and anything really directly connected with them...but Rodan? Manda? Dogora? Varan? we're given no hints these creatures were part of this world.


I believe their names are labelled on the DNA drawers in the post credits scene of SOS


Are you sure? I thought all of containers at the end read that they were from the Godzilla in 1954 and extracted in Nov of 1999.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:37 pm
by MouthForWar
Dr Kain wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:Hm. I can't personally consider them all a part of the universe though. I mean, we're told Mothra and the Gargantuas and we see Kamoeba, so was can be pretty comfortable in assuming all those movies and anything really directly connected with them...but Rodan? Manda? Dogora? Varan? we're given no hints these creatures were part of this world.


I believe their names are labelled on the DNA drawers in the post credits scene of SOS


Are you sure? I thought all of containers at the end read that they were from the Godzilla in 1954 and extracted in Nov of 1999.



Nope, there's a bunch of different monsters.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:14 pm
by Dr Kain
MouthForWar wrote:Nope, there's a bunch of different monsters.


Cool. I'll have to keep my eyes out on that scene the next time I watch the movie.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:15 pm
by kiryugoji04
MouthForWar wrote:Nope, there's a bunch of different monsters.


You can't really see them in the scene itself. I know they're there – I've seen a picture of them all together – but the camera doesn't really catch them in that shot.

Re: TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:19 pm
by lhb412
kiryugoji04 wrote:Actually, I found it on the interwebs:

Image

So yeah, looks like it's monsters and time periods, not literal movie events. Regardless, it paints a much more interesting picture of the universe than what was actually presented to us in the films. Sigh.


Ah, so we were this close to seeing the Giant Sea Serpent again, eh?