TALKBACK #26: Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla

[Mac]

[Dr Kain]

So I have a question out of curiosity. There is apparently some book that says the following Showa movies are part of the Kiryu universe:

Varan
The Mysterians
King Kong Escapes
Dogora
Gorath

How is this the case when there is nothing in either movie to show this? They never mentioned aliens having invaded Japan at all and isn't KKE not even part of the actual Toho canon universe even in the Showa era?

[kiryugoji04]

[Dr Kain]

[kiryugoji04]

Actually, I found it on the interwebs:



So yeah, looks like it's monsters and time periods, not literal movie events. Regardless, it paints a much more interesting picture of the universe than what was actually presented to us in the films. Sigh.

[Dr Kain]

I definitely think the universe they gave us in the movies was fantastic though.

What is that under 1987?

[MekaGojira3k]

A Kamoeba.

[kiryugoji04]

Like almost every Godzilla movie produced after 1989, it was an interesting element that was never really satisfactorily developed.

[jellydonut25]

Hm. I can't personally consider them all a part of the universe though. I mean, we're told Mothra and the Gargantuas and we see Kamoeba, so was can be pretty comfortable in assuming all those movies and anything really directly connected with them...but Rodan? Manda? Dogora? Varan? we're given no hints these creatures were part of this world.

[kiryugoji04]

Yeah, that's the thing. Nothing actively denies that timeline and it's a really cool notion but nothing in the movies really makes those connections so it doesn't really feel worthwhile at all. It's a shame they didn't do more with things like Kameba's cameo and such. It had potential to be one of the most interesting Godzilla continuities (Showa MONSTERS EVERYWHERE! + Heisei-style Anti-Monster Squad) but instead it's one of the most vanilla apart from a paltry handful of nifty ideas.

[Dr Kain]

Yeah, but you know what, the Kiryu movies are solid entires, so I'm okay with that. We know other monsters existed and have attacked Japan since the first Godzilla. It still would be cool to have more movies that take place in this universe be it another Godzilla movie or even just another Kaiju in general.

[jellydonut25]

I think the inclusion of some other kaiju is neat and then explains why there would (a) even BE an anti-kaiju task force in the first place and (b) why they'd be confident in that task force.

But adding more than what is mentioned in the movies doesn't add anything. And yeah, the kamoeba cameo in SOS is kinda worthless.

My biggest issue with SOS though is and has always been that the old cast jumped ship and the new cast is terrible and uninteresting with no character development.

[Dr Kain]

I can't argue you there, as I agree about them jumping ship on the old cast (not sure why they did that), but at least the main character was not another soldier or scientist. Not to mention he was related to the awesome Chujo from Mothra. Other highlights to SOS are its monster battles, Mothra costume (the best since the original IMO), the music, and effects. OMG, the miniatures are absolutely fantastic. Also, I'm glad Godzilla no longer just stands there lifelessly to get pummeled by missiles.

Sometimes I do think both Kiryu movies might have benefited had their run times been 15 minutes longer like their predecessors, especially SOS, but other times I think maybe being 88 and 91 minutes was perfect so that it didn't drag out pointless scenes. If there is one thing I have learned from watching Sentai over the years, is is how amazingly a four minute difference can make an episode. Half of my favorite Sentai series are those that run about 17 minutes when you take out the opening and ending credits (Dai, Kaku, Zyu, Jet, Car) as they feel fast paced and do not drag, while all of the series that are 21 minutes long without the credits at times can feel like they are dragging, even episodes from my favorite series.

[kiryugoji04]

I rewatched this and Tokyo SOS today. Ugh. It's sad, because I used to love this one so much when I first saw it back in high school and the few years after that but now I'm afraid I'm going to like it significantly less with each viewing. For every really cool thing it does, it does something, well, not so cool. And while I still like Akane's character and motivation in concept, the script gives Shaku NOTHING to work with. It just has her explain her situation like an emo high schooler on a live journal. Sara is also dead weight. The scientist dad guy is the one character in the film who's kind of entertaining to watch.

[DannyBeane]

[Dr Kain]

Oh yeah, those characters from Destroy All Monsters are such deep characters. We learn so much about who they are as people and see them all as best friends.

And then we have Yukio and Miki from Hedorah, who are just so great characters that they abandon a 10 year old child. Simply amazing.

Now if I were to compare the characters to those in Mothra vs and GTTHM, then I would agree. However, that is unfair because those characters were not only amazing, but they were written for the 60s.

The characters in the Heisei era are written for the 90s and the ones from the Millennium era are written for the 2000s. The world is a different place during each period. You can't compare them. That would be like comparing a 60s Batman to a 90s Batman to a 2015 Batman.

[klen7]

I like the characters in this movie.

[MekaGojira3k]

I like these characters well enough, too. (They're an improvement on the versions in X Megaguirus, that's for sure) I don't think the Millennium series characters are THAT inferior to Showa era stuff. (At least not as inferior than 90s Heisei)

I think S.O.S. would have benefited from something other than the Tezuka structure of "outsider deals with issues while facing Godzilla". The mechanic aspect is kind of cool but I would have loved that concept more if we were just seeing a group of mechanics dealing with Kiryu as he faces Godzilla and other monsters. I'm sure the Mothra element really kept things like that from happening, too.
...this is more of an SOS discussion...anyway..

[MouthForWar]

[jellydonut25]

[Dr Kain]

[MouthForWar]

[Dr Kain]

[kiryugoji04]

[lhb412]