TALKBACK #25: GMK

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

Moderator: Controllers

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:14 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:The crazy size differences are probably my favorite aspect of GMK. The genre needs to do that more often.

Yeah. I love how scrappy Baragon was. I also kind of dig a faster/smaller Mothra.

Agreed.

Size disparity is too rare in this genre. One of the things I love about Gamera 2 is just how much HUGER than Gamera Legion is.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18820
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Dr Kain » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:15 am

You know what, after reviewing the 74 MG movie I came to realize, why the hell was King Ceasar not in this movie? He should have been one of the guardian beasts as it would have fit what was established about him perfectly. He wasn't even considered before Toho forced Mothra and Ghidorah into the thing. WTF?
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:03 am

There's a very good reason for that; he's Okinawan.
Image

Ultraman. Is a Dick. A Big Dick.
User avatar
Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 3543
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:08 pm
Location: Bannana Republic

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Dr Kain » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:49 am

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:There's a very good reason for that; he's Okinawan.


So?
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:50 am

Dr Kain wrote:
Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:There's a very good reason for that; he's Okinawan.


So?


You really don't know?

Putting King Ceasar, who is based off a Shisa, an Okinawan deity in mainland Japan would make absolutely no sense from a narrative about creatures trying to defend the Japanese mainland.

There's a few reasons for that. Ryukan people and the Japanese don't get along and it goes back hundreds of years. When the mainland annexed Okinawa many Ryukan people were forced to live by the Japanese' rules and got treated pretty badly.

Nowadays its not that bad, but many Japanese believe that Okinawans are ethnically Japanese, glossing over many of the cultural differences in insensitive ways (Ryukan people are closer to the Chinese culturally).
Image

Ultraman. Is a Dick. A Big Dick.
User avatar
Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!!
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 3543
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:08 pm
Location: Bannana Republic

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby DannyBeane » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:17 am

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:
Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:There's a very good reason for that; he's Okinawan.


So?


You really don't know?

Putting King Ceasar, who is based off a Shisa, an Okinawan deity in mainland Japan would make absolutely no sense from a narrative about creatures trying to defend the Japanese mainland.

There's a few reasons for that. Ryukan people and the Japanese don't get along and it goes back hundreds of years. When the mainland annexed Okinawa many Ryukan people were forced to live by the Japanese' rules and got treated pretty badly.

Nowadays its not that bad, but many Japanese believe that Okinawans are ethnically Japanese, glossing over many of the cultural differences in insensitive ways (Ryukan people are closer to the Chinese culturally).


Which is also probably why the Shisa is more prevalent in Okinawan culture to begin with. Shiisaa are based on the Chinese Fu dogs. Having King Caesar protect Japan would be like having an Aztec God protect the United States. Wrong culture.
User avatar
DannyBeane
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 3010
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:13 pm
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Dr Kain » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:09 am

Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:
Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! wrote:There's a very good reason for that; he's Okinawan.


So?


You really don't know?

Putting King Ceasar, who is based off a Shisa, an Okinawan deity in mainland Japan would make absolutely no sense from a narrative about creatures trying to defend the Japanese mainland.

There's a few reasons for that. Ryukan people and the Japanese don't get along and it goes back hundreds of years. When the mainland annexed Okinawa many Ryukan people were forced to live by the Japanese' rules and got treated pretty badly.

Nowadays its not that bad, but many Japanese believe that Okinawans are ethnically Japanese, glossing over many of the cultural differences in insensitive ways (Ryukan people are closer to the Chinese culturally).


Honestly, no, I hadn't. Funny enough, for as much as I know about Japan's history, I did not know there was really anything about Okinawa that made it different from the rest of the country. I want to say that is dumb, but I think our own culture has highlighted stupidity at its finest.

Nevertheless, King Ceasar would still have made far more sense than either Ghidorah or Anguirus. They don't even have to keep him as an Okinawan diety.
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby H-Man » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:53 pm

I don't think Angilas or Varan would have necessarily improved this movie. Varan is only sort of a guardian monster in his original film and Angilas has never been more than a daikaijusaur. Mothra actually works well as a mythological protector of Japan. (Ghidorah does not.) The problem with having Mothra and Ghidorah in this film is that all of us fans were sick to death of them. I'd also argue that these are the worst incarnations of either character. In my opinion, the ideal guardian monsters would have been new creations, although I understand why Tomiyama wanted Ghidorah and Mothra.

It's funny that after nearly 15 years it's still the "Varan and Angilas would have been better" argument that drives criticism of this movie. To me, the identities of the guardian monsters is the least of GMK's problems. The first half is so good and as soon as Baragon is killed the movie falters. The pacing in the second half is awful. The reasonably-well-defined characters suddenly lose their purpose. The first half also shows us the monsters from a human perspective: a man watches Godzilla's rampage through his windshield, Baragon passes in front of a ski lift, the young woman watches Godzilla approach from her hospital room, etc. There are fewer shots like this in the monster-heavy second half. The best human-driven Godzilla movie since the 1960s turns into another rubber wrestling match.
User avatar
H-Man
Godzilla
 
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:55 am

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:21 am

I gotta be honest, as most of you know, I have praised this movie non stop these last ten years. However, the last two times I have watched it, there has been something that has bothered me about it and I'm not sure what it is. I've been trying to stay in denial over it, but as I've been doing my reviews, I'm starting realize I'm not in Egypt.

No, no, it just had to be that I wasn't in a good mood at the time I watched them. Especially since I watched it both times last year, which was the worst year I have lived through since 1998. Yeah, that has to be it.
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Gentleman » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:01 am

Regarding the inclusion of other monsters, I think that Ghidorah should have been omitted in favor of Titanosaurus. It would have fit the elemental theme better (Baragon = land, Mothra = air, Titano = water), plus - and most importantly - it would have given Godzilla someone to fight against physically. None of the other monsters were able to brawl with Godzilla, which took away a fun part of kaiju battles.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of King Seesar (I have a tattoo of a shisa), and while I'd have been thrilled to see him get some love, I agree that he'd have been out of place in this movie.
I'm not a hero. I'm not a savior. Forget what you know.

I'm just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control.
User avatar
Gentleman
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:23 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby daikaijusaurus » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:54 pm

Gentleman wrote:Regarding the inclusion of other monsters, I think that Ghidorah should have been omitted in favor of Titanosaurus. It would have fit the elemental theme better (Baragon = land, Mothra = air, Titano = water), plus - and most importantly - it would have given Godzilla someone to fight against physically. None of the other monsters were able to brawl with Godzilla, which took away a fun part of kaiju battles.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of King Seesar (I have a tattoo of a shisa), and while I'd have been thrilled to see him get some love, I agree that he'd have been out of place in this movie.


Titanosuras would've been perfect! I think Mothra and Ghidorah had no place in this movie, instead they should've had: Rodan (air), Baragon (land) and Titanosauras (water). Now that would've been one awesome matchup!
User avatar
daikaijusaurus
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:41 am

daikaijusaurus wrote:
Gentleman wrote:Regarding the inclusion of other monsters, I think that Ghidorah should have been omitted in favor of Titanosaurus. It would have fit the elemental theme better (Baragon = land, Mothra = air, Titano = water), plus - and most importantly - it would have given Godzilla someone to fight against physically. None of the other monsters were able to brawl with Godzilla, which took away a fun part of kaiju battles.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of King Seesar (I have a tattoo of a shisa), and while I'd have been thrilled to see him get some love, I agree that he'd have been out of place in this movie.


Titanosuras would've been perfect! I think Mothra and Ghidorah had no place in this movie, instead they should've had: Rodan (air), Baragon (land) and Titanosauras (water). Now that would've been one awesome matchup!


Yeah...Baragon or Angilas could both work for earth , and Manda could work for water as well.

Giant Condor is best for air, though.
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:45 am

I could do without Giant Condor.
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:03 pm

Dr Kain wrote:I could do without Giant Condor.

Why?
Image
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby klen7 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:12 pm

Image
User avatar
klen7
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 7198
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:34 pm
Location: beyond your peripheral vision

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Jared » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:11 am

Cody Himes wrote:It's funny that after nearly 15 years it's still the "Varan and Angilas would have been better" argument that drives criticism of this movie. To me, the identities of the guardian monsters is the least of GMK's problems. The first half is so good and as soon as Baragon is killed the movie falters. The pacing in the second half is awful. The reasonably-well-defined characters suddenly lose their purpose. The first half also shows us the monsters from a human perspective: a man watches Godzilla's rampage through his windshield, Baragon passes in front of a ski lift, the young woman watches Godzilla approach from her hospital room, etc. There are fewer shots like this in the monster-heavy second half. The best human-driven Godzilla movie since the 1960s turns into another rubber wrestling match.

Nailed it. The movie starts out so exciting and well-paced, but after the Godzilla and Baragon battle, the whole script just takes a nosedive into an empty pool. I always find myself getting bored or sleepy in the second half of this movie, despite the few great moments sprinkled in.
User avatar
Jared
Baby Godzilla
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:06 am

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Dr Kain » Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:42 pm

So yeah... now that I have reviewed the movie... it's not the masterpiece I thought it once was. It is still in my top 10 Godzilla movies of all time, but it is more my fifth favorite rather than first/second favorite.
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11269
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:01 am

I rewatched this tonight.

The first half of the movie is....great. The matte shots are (mostly) well handled, Godzilla's entrance is excellent (especially when he knocks over the crane), and I love the different camera angles Kaneko uses (specifically when Godzilla arrives and it's filmed from inside someone's car). Everything through Baragon's demise, well, really through the jet attack in the forest is well executed. I have some nitpicks, but the real issues I take are with KG's design and how boring the movie becomes after Baragon bites the dust. This is probably the worst KG redesign ever. It sucks. Even worse, they revive Ghidorah 3 times during a rather boring battle. It sucks more that the most interesting fight actually happened 45 minutes into the movie. I'm sort of iffy on this Godzilla suit - at times, he's menacing and exactly what the film needs; others he looks kinda goofy and a little too hulkish. I'm not a huge fan of the giant toe nails, especially when the super close up shot of him kicking Baragon betrays the overall "realness" of the suit.

I'd say this is a middle of the pack effort, 6.5/10. Parts of the movie were really special, but the rest drag it down.
Image
Kaiju Transmissions Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaijutransmissionspodcast
User avatar
Hybrid Gojira
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby lhb412 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:14 pm

^I largely agree on the film's merit, but I do give it credit for being far, far more ambitious and creatively successful than the films around it.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15080
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:41 pm

lhb412 wrote:^I largely agree on the film's merit, but I do give it credit for being far, far more ambitious and creatively successful than the films around it.


It's sad that Toho couldn't get out of Kaneko's way and let him run with his second idea. I think all of us wanted to see Varan, Ang, and Baragon on screen against Godzilla, and it would have made for a far more interesting battle given how Godzilla's bought with Baragon went. I did not like Kaneko's first idea - the astronaut becoming a monster and fighting Godzilla (as reported by Toho Kingdom) - that sounded terrible.
Image
Kaiju Transmissions Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaijutransmissionspodcast
User avatar
Hybrid Gojira
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby lhb412 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:19 am

^The astronaut idea is basically a remake of one of my favorite episodes of the original Ultraman.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15080
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby Rody » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:03 pm

Reading my newly obtained Japanese Giants #9 (so glad I finally bought these), Shusuke Kaneko said in his interview for the issue that he considered Baragon, Varan, and Anguirus monsters that could be indigenous to Japan, and that their "similar appearance" and lack of special powers would have emphasized Godzilla's strength.

Hybrid Gojira wrote:I did not like Kaneko's first idea - the astronaut becoming a monster and fighting Godzilla (as reported by Toho Kingdom) - that sounded terrible.

Also according to JG, this first script was dropped because Kaneko felt such a tragic story would be inappropriate for the intended New Year's release of the film; something more fun was needed.
User avatar
Rody
Godzilla
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby lhb412 » Sun May 08, 2016 3:26 pm

I've been thinking about this one the last few days. Despite my ragging on the film lately (i.e. the last few years) I still like it, and if I was told point blank I had to watch a Toho produced Godzilla film made after the Showa era - and for some reason Biollante wasn't available, I'd certainly go for this one.

Get rid of the repetition (Ghidorah being revived again and again) in the final fight, subbing Angilas and Varan for Mothra and Ghidorah, clarifying the mythological elements just a smidgen, and allowing them more time and maybe money for the special effects... well, then you're looking at a classic Godzilla film.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15080
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby lhb412 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:05 pm

... and when I rewatched this film in my pre-Shin marathon I enjoyed it immensely! This is probably the most I've enjoyed it since it initially came out and I (many of us) had that honeymoon period with the movie before studio interference and comparisons with the Gamera trilogy dominated with conversation for the next decade plus. Maybe I'm just coming back around to this movie; made peace with the parts I've been critical of and just enjoyed the fun characters (Shiro Sano as the boss of BS Digital Q is amazing), monster battles, and the interesting and unique directions this film takes.

Heck, it may be back in my top ten Godzilla flicks now. I dug it that much!
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15080
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #25: GMK

Postby klen7 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:59 am

^ Best double post :)
User avatar
klen7
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 7198
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:34 pm
Location: beyond your peripheral vision

PreviousNext

Return to The Millennium Era: 1999-2005

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron