TALKBACK #25: GMK

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

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Postby Legion » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:04 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I also feel that anyone who thinks this is the best film since 1954 needs to be struck repeatedly with a stack of dvds consisting of Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah (so sue me), and Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla 74.


Throw Son of Godzilla into that stack and I'm with you 100% on that one, my friend.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:25 pm

Son of Godzilla doesn't get anywhere near enough love...I think if the Godzilla and Minya suits had been done differently it might be on par with Ghidrah in many people's books
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Postby Legion » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:30 pm

King_Ghidorah wrote:Son of Godzilla doesn't get anywhere near enough love...I think if the Godzilla and Minya suits had been done differently it might be on par with Ghidrah in many people's books


As a complete package Son of Godzilla is probably one of the very best Godzilla movies. Aside from the Godzilla and Minya suits (which aren't that bad) everything works about the movie: the human characters, the music, the wireworks, the matte shots, the overall feeling the movie gives off, the story, the ending...everything.

I like GMK, but I'd watch Son of Godzilla a million times instead of GMK if I was given the choice.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:37 pm

Agreed Legion...I don't mind the suits but I can admit that they aren't high moments for the series...


But everything else in the film is. And I would also watch this a thousand times before I'd watch GMK again...which sums up the millenium series for me...I don't think I've watched any of the millenium movies over 5 times...just nothing that I feel like repeatedly watching really.

I'll watch the Hesei series occasionally and of course the Showa is essentially on repeat on my PS3 but the Millenium series I almost have to remind myself that even exists at times...to paraphrase what I think upon coming across a dvd like GMK in my collection... "oh yeah I could probably watch GMK right now, haven't seen this movie in forever...but no...I'll watch Destroy All Planets again"
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Postby Rodanex » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:31 pm

MouthForWar wrote:
Rodanex wrote: I can't for the life of me see how anyone can consider this to be the best G-film since 1954.


Are there people that really think that? That's just downright silly.


When I first came onto these forums, a lot of people were saying that about GMK.
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Postby Legion » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:09 am

Rodanex wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:
Rodanex wrote: I can't for the life of me see how anyone can consider this to be the best G-film since 1954.


Are there people that really think that? That's just downright silly.


When I first came onto these forums, a lot of people were saying that about GMK.


Apparently, a lot of people grew up.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:43 am

Legion wrote: I like GMK, but I'd watch Son of Godzilla a million times instead of GMK if I was given the choice.


Likewise. Though I must add that GMK has more of the "fun factor" and "re-watchability" than anything since the Showa era. Which may be questionable but I owe a lot of that to any and all Kaiju action within GMK.
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Postby ryuuseipro » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:33 am

All I can say is, GMK is the absolute best of the Millennium films (followed by Tokyo SOS). And it's one of the best films, if not the best Godzilla film.

Mind you, there are still limitations to this film: The usage of King Ghidorah and Mothra (at Toho's request) as opposed to Anguirus and Varan (per Kaneko's original story treatment), and the shorter production schedule. Aside from all that, the story was very strong (Kaneko had thought of this story years before it was made!), and has perhaps one of the best presentations of Godzilla in the Heisei era! I will say that this is perhaps the strongest Godzilla film made after the Showa Series. The VS Series didn't come close (despite G84 being the most "down-to-earth" of the films and having the best SPFX of the bunch, IMHO).
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Postby MouthForWar » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:02 am

ryuuseipro wrote:All I can say is, GMK is the absolute best of the Millennium films (followed by Tokyo SOS). And it's one of the best films, if not the best Godzilla film.

Mind you, there are still limitations to this film: The usage of King Ghidorah and Mothra (at Toho's request) as opposed to Anguirus and Varan (per Kaneko's original story treatment), and the shorter production schedule. Aside from all that, the story was very strong (Kaneko had thought of this story years before it was made!), and has perhaps one of the best presentations of Godzilla in the Heisei era! I will say that this is perhaps the strongest Godzilla film made after the Showa Series. The VS Series didn't come close (despite G84 being the most "down-to-earth" of the films and having the best SPFX of the bunch, IMHO).


Yeah, but GMK is also full of terrible writing that's just as bad as most of the rest of the post-Showa films. Even Kaneko says its one of his weakest films and it IS (and if the director doesn't even think his film is strong, it usually isn't.) The script is honestly BAD and all over the damn place. The movie is just hackneyed nonsense in some parts (reviewing the tape, the old man character, "rocks are like CDRs", etc). I realize bad writing has pretty much been the norm with the series since the early 90s, but I just can't see GMK as being anywhere near the best Honda and Fukuda films. Its the strongest entry in a series of mediocre films, but that's not much of a compliment considering its competition. Honestly, if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all... at least for me.
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Postby Destroysall » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:23 am

MouthForWar wrote:
ryuuseipro wrote:All I can say is, GMK is the absolute best of the Millennium films (followed by Tokyo SOS). And it's one of the best films, if not the best Godzilla film.

Mind you, there are still limitations to this film: The usage of King Ghidorah and Mothra (at Toho's request) as opposed to Anguirus and Varan (per Kaneko's original story treatment), and the shorter production schedule. Aside from all that, the story was very strong (Kaneko had thought of this story years before it was made!), and has perhaps one of the best presentations of Godzilla in the Heisei era! I will say that this is perhaps the strongest Godzilla film made after the Showa Series. The VS Series didn't come close (despite G84 being the most "down-to-earth" of the films and having the best SPFX of the bunch, IMHO).


Yeah, but GMK is also full of terrible writing that's just as bad as most of the rest of the post-Showa films. Even Kaneko says its one of his weakest films and it IS (and if the director doesn't even think his film is strong, it usually isn't.) The script is honestly BAD and all over the damn place. The movie is just hackneyed nonsense in some parts (reviewing the tape, the old man character, "rocks are like CDRs", etc). I realize bad writing has pretty much been the norm with the series since the early 90s, but I just can't see GMK as being anywhere near the best Honda and Fukuda films. Its the strongest entry in a series of mediocre films, but that's not much of a compliment considering its competition. Honestly, if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all... at least for me.


Well said.

I don't understand that either, how people think it is the "best" Godzilla movie since the original. I mean, I enjoyed it as much as the next person, but to go off and say its the "best"? Don't forget all the other classics and amongst them my fav, Mothra Vs. Godzilla!!!!!

I truly wish we could have gotten Anguirus and Varan thrown into the mix, as it would have been much better in my opinion. I love Ghidorah and Mothra as much as anyone else, but they've been used WAY too many times! I know that they are really popular amongst Godzilla's enemies, but still.

I agree with Mouth in a sense when he states that "if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all..." There really isn't much, I mean, we've all seen Godzilla duke it out with Ghidorah and Mothra many times already. I like Godzilla's suit in this movie. I love how menacing he looks, but IMHO, I don't find him as menacing and bad@$$ as the Mosu-Goji suit in Mothra Vs. Godzilla.
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Postby MouthForWar » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:19 am

Destroysall wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:
ryuuseipro wrote:All I can say is, GMK is the absolute best of the Millennium films (followed by Tokyo SOS). And it's one of the best films, if not the best Godzilla film.

Mind you, there are still limitations to this film: The usage of King Ghidorah and Mothra (at Toho's request) as opposed to Anguirus and Varan (per Kaneko's original story treatment), and the shorter production schedule. Aside from all that, the story was very strong (Kaneko had thought of this story years before it was made!), and has perhaps one of the best presentations of Godzilla in the Heisei era! I will say that this is perhaps the strongest Godzilla film made after the Showa Series. The VS Series didn't come close (despite G84 being the most "down-to-earth" of the films and having the best SPFX of the bunch, IMHO).


Yeah, but GMK is also full of terrible writing that's just as bad as most of the rest of the post-Showa films. Even Kaneko says its one of his weakest films and it IS (and if the director doesn't even think his film is strong, it usually isn't.) The script is honestly BAD and all over the damn place. The movie is just hackneyed nonsense in some parts (reviewing the tape, the old man character, "rocks are like CDRs", etc). I realize bad writing has pretty much been the norm with the series since the early 90s, but I just can't see GMK as being anywhere near the best Honda and Fukuda films. Its the strongest entry in a series of mediocre films, but that's not much of a compliment considering its competition. Honestly, if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all... at least for me.


Well said.

I don't understand that either, how people think it is the "best" Godzilla movie since the original. I mean, I enjoyed it as much as the next person, but to go off and say its the "best"? Don't forget all the other classics and amongst them my fav, Mothra Vs. Godzilla!!!!!

I truly wish we could have gotten Anguirus and Varan thrown into the mix, as it would have been much better in my opinion. I love Ghidorah and Mothra as much as anyone else, but they've been used WAY too many times! I know that they are really popular amongst Godzilla's enemies, but still.

I agree with Mouth in a sense when he states that "if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all..." There really isn't much, I mean, we've all seen Godzilla duke it out with Ghidorah and Mothra many times already. I like Godzilla's suit in this movie. I love how menacing he looks, but IMHO, I don't find him as menacing and bad@$$ as the Mosu-Goji suit in Mothra Vs. Godzilla.


Thanks. And I also agree that Mosu-Goji is one of the most menacing Godzilla suits (cept for the scenes where his lip is all loose).

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Postby Destroysall » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:19 am

MouthForWar wrote:
Destroysall wrote:
MouthForWar wrote:
ryuuseipro wrote:All I can say is, GMK is the absolute best of the Millennium films (followed by Tokyo SOS). And it's one of the best films, if not the best Godzilla film.

Mind you, there are still limitations to this film: The usage of King Ghidorah and Mothra (at Toho's request) as opposed to Anguirus and Varan (per Kaneko's original story treatment), and the shorter production schedule. Aside from all that, the story was very strong (Kaneko had thought of this story years before it was made!), and has perhaps one of the best presentations of Godzilla in the Heisei era! I will say that this is perhaps the strongest Godzilla film made after the Showa Series. The VS Series didn't come close (despite G84 being the most "down-to-earth" of the films and having the best SPFX of the bunch, IMHO).


Yeah, but GMK is also full of terrible writing that's just as bad as most of the rest of the post-Showa films. Even Kaneko says its one of his weakest films and it IS (and if the director doesn't even think his film is strong, it usually isn't.) The script is honestly BAD and all over the damn place. The movie is just hackneyed nonsense in some parts (reviewing the tape, the old man character, "rocks are like CDRs", etc). I realize bad writing has pretty much been the norm with the series since the early 90s, but I just can't see GMK as being anywhere near the best Honda and Fukuda films. Its the strongest entry in a series of mediocre films, but that's not much of a compliment considering its competition. Honestly, if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all... at least for me.


Well said.

I don't understand that either, how people think it is the "best" Godzilla movie since the original. I mean, I enjoyed it as much as the next person, but to go off and say its the "best"? Don't forget all the other classics and amongst them my fav, Mothra Vs. Godzilla!!!!!

I truly wish we could have gotten Anguirus and Varan thrown into the mix, as it would have been much better in my opinion. I love Ghidorah and Mothra as much as anyone else, but they've been used WAY too many times! I know that they are really popular amongst Godzilla's enemies, but still.

I agree with Mouth in a sense when he states that "if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all..." There really isn't much, I mean, we've all seen Godzilla duke it out with Ghidorah and Mothra many times already. I like Godzilla's suit in this movie. I love how menacing he looks, but IMHO, I don't find him as menacing and bad@$$ as the Mosu-Goji suit in Mothra Vs. Godzilla.


Thanks. And I also agree that Mosu-Goji is one of the most menacing Godzilla suits (cept for the scenes where his lip is all loose).

Oh, and awesome av. One of my favorite bands right now!


No prob! And do you mean when his lip shakes like in the scene where he crashes into Nagoya castle? I could see what you mean by that, but I think that's one of the things that grew onto me, I don't know, it's weird. :? :lol:

Oh, and me too!!!! I can't stop listening to their albums, and I'm really getting into their latest album. However, "Sleeping Giant" has to be my favorite song at the moment. Next to "Megalodon"! :D
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Postby Alpha OTS » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:20 am

Destroysall wrote:I truly wish we could have gotten Anguirus and Varan thrown into the mix, as it would have been much better in my opinion. I love Ghidorah and Mothra as much as anyone else, but they've been used WAY too many times! I know that they are really popular amongst Godzilla's enemies, but still.

I agree with Mouth in a sense when he states that "if not for Godzilla's first appearance in the city and the fight with Baragon, there wouldn't be much to recommend about this movie at all..." There really isn't much, I mean, we've all seen Godzilla duke it out with Ghidorah and Mothra many times already. I like Godzilla's suit in this movie. I love how menacing he looks, but IMHO, I don't find him as menacing and bad@$$ as the Mosu-Goji suit in Mothra Vs. Godzilla.

I love GMK, but I certainly agree with all of the above. GvMothra, GvGhidorah? Seen it, multiple times in multiple movies. You'd think Toho would be wanting to expand their marketable mythos instead of relying on the same old same old again and again. There's no denying that it would have been a more memorable Godzilla movie with at least one other nonMothra/nonGhidorah kaiju. Odd that Toho forced in not just one, but two of their mainstays as G opponents. I guess Baragon should count his blessings.

That said, this is one of the better executions of the Mothra design.
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Postby Legion » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:56 am

Alpha OTS wrote:I love GMK, but I certainly agree with all of the above. GvMothra, GvGhidorah? Seen it, multiple times in multiple movies. You'd think Toho would be wanting to expand their marketable mythos instead of relying on the same old same old again and again. There's no denying that it would have been a more memorable Godzilla movie with at least one other nonMothra/nonGhidorah kaiju. Odd that Toho forced in not just one, but two of their mainstays as G opponents. I guess Baragon should count his blessings.


Then again, considering the fact that both Orga and Megaguirus were both highly unpopular in Japan it's not too big a surprise that Toho insisted on Mothra and King Ghidora for GMK. Who know, perhaps the movie might not have been as financially success as it was if Varan and Angilas were in it, due to the lack of big-time name recognition in the title.
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Postby Reaper G » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:21 pm

Legion wrote:
Alpha OTS wrote:I love GMK, but I certainly agree with all of the above. GvMothra, GvGhidorah? Seen it, multiple times in multiple movies. You'd think Toho would be wanting to expand their marketable mythos instead of relying on the same old same old again and again. There's no denying that it would have been a more memorable Godzilla movie with at least one other nonMothra/nonGhidorah kaiju. Odd that Toho forced in not just one, but two of their mainstays as G opponents. I guess Baragon should count his blessings.


Then again, considering the fact that both Orga and Megaguirus were both highly unpopular in Japan it's not too big a surprise that Toho insisted on Mothra and King Ghidora for GMK. Who know, perhaps the movie might not have been as financially success as it was if Varan and Angilas were in it, due to the lack of big-time name recognition in the title.


Did anyone who went to see GMK in Japan not have gone if Anguilas and Varan had been in it?
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Postby armandv » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:25 pm

Reaper G wrote:
Legion wrote:
Alpha OTS wrote:I love GMK, but I certainly agree with all of the above. GvMothra, GvGhidorah? Seen it, multiple times in multiple movies. You'd think Toho would be wanting to expand their marketable mythos instead of relying on the same old same old again and again. There's no denying that it would have been a more memorable Godzilla movie with at least one other nonMothra/nonGhidorah kaiju. Odd that Toho forced in not just one, but two of their mainstays as G opponents. I guess Baragon should count his blessings.


Then again, considering the fact that both Orga and Megaguirus were both highly unpopular in Japan it's not too big a surprise that Toho insisted on Mothra and King Ghidora for GMK. Who know, perhaps the movie might not have been as financially success as it was if Varan and Angilas were in it, due to the lack of big-time name recognition in the title.


Did anyone who went to see GMK in Japan not have gone if Anguilas and Varan had been in it?


No, I'd have gone anyway. The trip was worth the experience (and vice-versa):

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Postby Legion » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:29 pm

Well of course hardcore Godzilla fans would have seen it no matter what monsters were in it. That pretty much goes without saying.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:43 pm

Ya know tho...the more I think about it the more I realize that kaiju film making is not dead...I enjoyed the heck out of Ultraman the Next and Gamera the Brave...

I know neither film made alot of money but it's still nice that we got them as fans and that people are still trying to occasionally put out good kaiju films even when they are part of a previously established series...

I think Kaneko just found out the hard way on GMK that one of the things both of the films I've previously mentioned have in common is that they are not directly assosiated with Toho...I think's Kaneko's struggle to throw anything new into the franchise and ultimate failure is more a sign to Toho that they new to loosen up the creative control a little bit perhaps and let talented film makers expieriement and try new things...which apparently was the whole purpose of the millenium series and yet I don't think they really lived up to their mission statement
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Postby zekend01 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:58 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:You know when this first came out I almost wrote this whole film off. Probably because of Ghidorah. The design didn't bother me, what bothered me was his diminutive size and role as a good guy.


I also feel that anyone who thinks this is the best film since 1954 needs to be struck repeatedly with a stack of dvds consisting of Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah (so sue me), and Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla 74.


Pssshh... whatever man. You know this movie is tits.
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Postby MouthForWar » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:45 pm

They should have used Rodan instead of KG. I always figured he was just as popular. Mothra isn't a bad "good guy" monster replacement but King Ghidorah is just a dumb decision. Rodan would have suited the need for a more popular monster AND would have been fitting for the story line.
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Postby Destroysall » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:27 pm

I think Anguirus is pretty popular. I don't see what's wrong with him being in the film, I mean, he was Godzilla's first adversary. Varan, I'm not sure how popular or known is he.

MouthForWar wrote:
They should have used Rodan instead of KG. I always figured he was just as popular. Mothra isn't a bad "good guy" monster replacement but King Ghidorah is just a dumb decision. Rodan would have suited the need for a more popular monster AND would have been fitting for the story line.


Rodan would have been better than KG, indeed.

Legion wrote:Then again, considering the fact that both Orga and Megaguirus were both highly unpopular in Japan it's not too big a surprise that Toho insisted on Mothra and King Ghidora for GMK. Who know, perhaps the movie might not have been as financially success as it was if Varan and Angilas were in it, due to the lack of big-time name recognition in the title.


I could see where Orga and Megaguirus not having much popularity. Yet I'm pretty sure Rodan and Anguirus are as popular as King Ghidorah and Mothra.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:11 pm

zekend01 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:You know when this first came out I almost wrote this whole film off. Probably because of Ghidorah. The design didn't bother me, what bothered me was his diminutive size and role as a good guy.


I also feel that anyone who thinks this is the best film since 1954 needs to be struck repeatedly with a stack of dvds consisting of Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah (so sue me), and Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla 74.


Pssshh... whatever man. You know this movie is tits.


Be that as it may, there a plenty of other tits, of equal or greater quality, in this franchise to enjoy.



Wow. That sounded a lot less strange in my mind. >_>
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Postby zekend01 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:41 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
zekend01 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:You know when this first came out I almost wrote this whole film off. Probably because of Ghidorah. The design didn't bother me, what bothered me was his diminutive size and role as a good guy.


I also feel that anyone who thinks this is the best film since 1954 needs to be struck repeatedly with a stack of dvds consisting of Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah (so sue me), and Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla 74.


Pssshh... whatever man. You know this movie is tits.


Be that as it may, there a plenty of other tits, of equal or greater quality, in this franchise to enjoy.



Wow. That sounded a lot less strange in my mind. >_>


Ah yes, a tit garden, but none so luscious and well formed and youthful as GMK. Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah?? Still holding up, pretty even, but beginning to sag down to the belly button.
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Postby DannyBeane » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:10 pm

zekend01 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:
zekend01 wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:You know when this first came out I almost wrote this whole film off. Probably because of Ghidorah. The design didn't bother me, what bothered me was his diminutive size and role as a good guy.


I also feel that anyone who thinks this is the best film since 1954 needs to be struck repeatedly with a stack of dvds consisting of Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah (so sue me), and Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla 74.


Pssshh... whatever man. You know this movie is tits.


Be that as it may, there a plenty of other tits, of equal or greater quality, in this franchise to enjoy.



Wow. That sounded a lot less strange in my mind. >_>


Ah yes, a tit garden, but none so luscious and well formed and youthful as GMK. Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidrah, Monster Zero, Destroy All Monsters, Hedorah?? Still holding up, pretty even, but beginning to sag down to the belly button.


GMK's tits may be youthful but they are still lopsided and flapjack like.
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Postby Legion » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:13 pm

What the hell are you guys smoking?
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Hello, Nice Warners! - A Thorough Analysis of Every Animaniacs Episode
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