Best millennium Goji Suit.

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

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BEST MILLENNIUM GOJI

Poll ended at Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:21 pm

2000/ X Megaguirus
9
20%
GMK
14
32%
X Mechagodzilla/ SOS
12
27%
Final Wars
9
20%
 
Total votes : 44

Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:39 pm

Looks like GMK is ahead by a hair, followed closely by Kiryugoji....
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:05 pm

The GMK suit should have to apply to the same set of rules as the concept marquette for the G2K design....the concept of the GMK suit is great and even standing still it looks ok but it's execution is horrid.
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:10 pm

I have to say not a single suit from the 2K series is 100% satisfying for me. Too many problems across the board.

2K - No visible shoulders. The head didn't look right from some angles. Ugly colors.

GXM - Some angles the head looks very awkward. Ugly colors.

GMK - Ugly neck, short toes, and really fake looking claws. The face also looks odd from some angles.

Kiryu movies - The face once again looks weird from some angle, and the small head attach to a thick neck shows up really badly from some angle.

GFW - Skinny, and REALLY ugly head.

I guess the GXM one would be my favorite seeing as how the head's awkward angles are rarely seen. You know, I don't think a single one of those movies truly nailed the head. I think GMK's head was the best. I actually can't think of any specific scenes, but only from the online photos from many years ago before the movie was released.

Also, 100% agree with the animals being too clean and plastic looking. It always comes off so fake.

I can remember when Godzilla suit maker Shinichi Wakasa vacationed in LA back in 2003 or 04 and we went to the FX studios KNB and Spectral Motion. Spectral Motion was building creatures and props for HELLBOY at that time, and Wakasa lamented that the budgets would never allow him to use the same quality of latex and materials for Godzilla.


Not even for hand puppets like the ones I posted on the other board, huh? I guess Toho is that cheap. Wasn't Final Wars Minya suppose to have used higher quality latex, though? It definitely looks from flexible. Actually, I think even Angilas looks flexible from some behind the scenes footage of him jumping.

Oh, and Final Wars Rodan blows all incarnations away. I actually rewatched the movie a few days ago, and Rodan stole the show for me. His attack in New York came off as a huge flying creature complete with 100% convincing wing flaps.
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Postby canofhumdingers » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:32 pm

The Millennium suits (with the possible exception of the GMK Godzilla) are stiff and boring and offer the suit actors no opportunity to truly act, so that none of that Godzillas in that era really have a personality.


Hmmm... I thought Godzilla exuded lots ofpersonality in G2000 (particualarly in the fight against the UFO in the city) & GxM (this time he reminded me of the 70's godzilla in the final fight with Megaguirus.)

Anyway, my vote went for the the G2000/Megaguirus suit. & not for the personality (though that helps). I already touched on this in the G'84 talkback thread, but I like this design best for several reasons (that are, conveniently, the same reasons i like the 84 design). I prefer the larger, more proportionate head. I actually like the less pronounced shoulders as it makes him more like an animal & less obviously a man-in-suit. I like the crouched posture of this suit. I like that the largest fin is low on his back around his waistline. That makes his center of gravity look lower, which is more convincing for a monster that big. I also like that his fins, even given a pretty radical redesign, are still basically patterned on the maple leaf shape (unlike the Kiryu goji suit...). Finally, there's a couple of shots in G2000 where you see him directly facing the camera & lit in a dark, very shadowy/contrasty way (once near the begining right when the car of main characters happens upon him, & once near the end right before he kills Katagiri) that just makes his big toothy face look incredible!

My least favorite millennium suit (& maybe least favorite G suit period) is Kiryu Goji. He's pin-headed. His snout droops. His largest fin is WAY up on his shoulders making him look top-heavy (as an aside, the only suit i thought a high big fin looked pretty good on was the 89/91 & maybe final wars). His fins are more or less triangular spines with very little of that "maple leaf" pattern left to them. & the suit looks too bulky/heavy for the actor to move very well. It's like they took the worst aspects of the heisei & milliennium suits up to that point & combined them all into one.
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:16 pm

Wow. There's some really great analysis going down on these suits here. I dig that. I like when other posters help me see what I didn't before with well thought out descriptions of these suits. TerranigmaFreak said it first, but I too have never been 100% satisfied with any Millennium incarnation of Godzilla. The conjecture somehow makes these suits more real and tangible to me. I can finally put them into context.

Keep it up!!
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:46 pm

Oh and I want to point out I'm very happy with Godzilla Vs Biollante's suit. I don't want to sound picky or anything cause I do have my favorite, but none of the millennium suits has that perfection to them.
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Postby TXKaiju » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:10 pm

For me its a toss up between the Godzilla 2000 suit and the GFW suit so I picked the GFW suit only because Godzilla was more distructive.
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Postby Elliot Gay » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:40 am

I'm a bit surprised, but I actually prefer the GFW Godzilla suit to the others. Really, the only suit I wasn't pleased with were GXMG and GXM. GMMG had some nice tweaks to the suit which made it more to my liking, and as much as I liked the GMK suit, I felt that the GFW suit's mobility and expressiveness were the best.
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:03 pm

Wow. There's some really great analysis going down on these suits here. I dig that. I like when other posters help me see what I didn't before with well thought out descriptions of these suits.


I'm glad you like this discussion. I myself love the art of bringing monsters to live; whether it's suits, CGI, stopmotion, or puppets. It helps I study animals and dinosaurs.

I'm also very happy people brought up the issue of coloring on the suits. I also thought about how the coloring uniform coloring looks unrealistic for an animal, even an imaginary one. The things is, not once throughout the history of the franchise have the tried to do something about it. I'm not talking about a rainbow color Godzilla suit, just his belly being a slightly different color. This probably actually applies to many of the monsters. There are some monsters that don't suffer from this. Most of them are Heisei monsters actually don't have this problem.

I actually just rewatched the Millennium movies a few nights ago and I have to change my opinion. I have to say the GMK suit is my favorite.

I'm going for a more detail analysis of the suits.

G2000 - The shoulders is still a very annoying problem. The lack of shoulders gives him a very weird bowling pin shape to his body. His face looks pretty mean and evil though. The neck is stiff and doesn't allow much head movement. The suit looks very rigid.

GxM - The shoulders have been corrected, but the face doesn't look good in a few shots. Mainly the close ups from when he's shaking his head. Yeah, the scene is silly, but what really bothered me was that the head's shape almost looks like a plain rectangle with spikes and eyes. This is very rare, but it happens. I hate the colors too. Ditto on the stiffness and unmovable neck.

GMK - The neck is the obvious problem, but just rewatching GMK with better color quality allowed me to notice more scene with subtle facial movement. The GMK suit can grin, move it's head, and blink its eyes. This is the only suit with a movable neck despite to awkward bent. The toes are too short and very noticeable when he steps on Baragon's face. The claws also look fake. They should have applied some gloss to then to make it look like there's keratin covering it. The teeth didn't have this problem.

Kiryu Saga - I'm going to assume both suits are exactly the same (minus the scar of course), but if anyone knows otherwise, please feel free to correct me. The tiny head looks bad from a few angles. Especially the first side shot with his first meeting with Kiryu. The thick neck with tiny head attached look is just plain weird. The gonzo nose has already been pointed out, but I honestly don't remember seeing it bother me in the movie. Not once did I notice it when watching both films. The tiny head was only noticeable in the first movie. It does have some facial expressions, but it's not as good as the GMK suit. Plus, the head to use a bust up animatronic to do that while I assume it's all built in to the GMK suit.

GFW - The thin snout is the number one problem. I don't have a big issue with his slim body shape, but the GXM suit has a better balance. Once again, outside of the GMK suit, this suit has none of the bells and whistles to bring it to life, not even an animatronic model.

There is one big issue I also think no one ever brings up. It's the tail. They really should find a better way to manipulate the tail. It looks like it's randomly flailing about and not part of the animal. The only time the tail ever looked good while being attached to the suit was the Baragon digging scene. It's the side shot, the shot after that also had the tail bend awkwardly for a split second.

Now here's my question: Who built the GMK suit? Did Shinichi Wakasa do it, or did Kaneko bring his own team for that as well? I understand Shinichi Wakasa not having the budget for the latex, but seems like Kaneko's team was able to make up for it with more movable parts.
Last edited by TerranigmaFreak on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Dark Uniter » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:50 pm

My favorite Millennium suit has to the one in Godzilla 2000. My second favorite one is Godzilla: Final Wars.
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:11 pm

TerranigmaFreak wrote:I'm glad you like this discussion. I myself love the art of bringing monsters to live; whether it's suits, CGI, stopmotion, or puppets. It helps I study animals and dinosaurs.


:D That's awesome. I like to dig into life mechanics as well and I really agree with what you were saying about colorization! Just some highlights, or subtle shades here and there would really make a suit jump to life. I do a lot of art, oil paintings in particular, and I try to use a bit of the ol' ROY G BIV in every painting. Gray sweatshirt (for example)? No prob. Just put some purples and brown and yellows in instead of JUST lighter and darker shades of gray. Works out so nice!

Once the shading continuum is established colors are almost arbitrary as far as what you use, but a variety really tickles the delivery from the eye to the brain.

TerranigmaFreak wrote:The toes are too short and very noticeable when he steps on Baragon's face. The claws also look fake. They should have applied some gloss to then to make it look like there's keratin covering it.


To me, it looks the the big overcompensating heal ruins the illusion. It's just an eyesore to me!
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Postby Legion » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:15 pm

zekend01 wrote:
To me, it looks the the big overcompensating heal ruins the illusion. It's just an eyesore to me!


The GMK Godzilla always looked to me like he was wearing Frankenstein boots.
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:26 pm

:lol:

That or Gene Simmons zhit-kickers! Seems like something they might have wanted to downplay, kinda like how Katsumi Tezuka had to crawl on his knees to portray a quadruped! :P
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:25 pm

zekend01 wrote:To me, it looks the the big overcompensating heal ruins the illusion. It's just an eyesore to me!


It's a combination of big thick heels and short toes.

All of them suffer from a lack of flexibility with the toes, too. Baby Godzilla was the only monster I can think of from the Godzilla universe with any kind of toe movement.

Remember seeing his feet step out the first time?
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:06 pm

^^^True dat.

Remember Gamera's 1st step in G3? Was that an unnatural vibration from poor choice of footage, or supposed to be how that kind of weight would actually displace itself when undulating? I'm going with door #1 on that one. I think it was the only careless shot in the whole movie really. :oops:
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Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:48 am

TerranigmaFreak wrote:Now here's my question: Who built the GMK suit?


Fuyuki Shinada made the monster suits for GMK. He also designed the 1954 Godzilla head replica that was sold with Toho's Godzilla Final Box DVD set.
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Postby The Dark Uniter » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:46 am

Legion wrote:
zekend01 wrote:
To me, it looks the the big overcompensating heal ruins the illusion. It's just an eyesore to me!


The GMK Godzilla always looked to me like he was wearing Frankenstein boots.
Whenever I look at the GMK suit, it looks as though like Godzilla has a ``pot belly.`` :?
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Postby zekend01 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:13 pm

The "pot belly" and neck have been mentioned LOTS. I don't mind either of them one bit. Again, just the heals. If you compare the suit heals to the maquette heals you'll notice that the maquette's heals are much more refined and creates less of an eyesore all around for the foot itself.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/GODZ ... sneak2.jpg

http://www.kaijukits.com/library/atlier ... quette.htm


The practical aspects for performing in the massive suit probably led to the building up of the heal so the actor could negotiate his steps better. That's just my opinion on the matter anyway.

Soooo their heart was in the right place when they were designing this goji anyway! :roll:
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Postby TerranigmaFreak » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:20 pm

Fuyuki Shinada made the monster suits for GMK. He also designed the 1954 Godzilla head replica that was sold with Toho's Godzilla Final Box DVD set.


He mold and modeled it, or did he do everything, including making all the robotic parts and stuff?

The practical aspects for performing in the massive suit probably led to the building up of the heal so the actor could negotiate his steps better. That's just my opinion on the matter anyway.

Soooo their heart was in the right place when they were designing this goji anyway!


The toes also looks better in the marquette. It doesn't look ridiculously short.
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Postby TXKaiju » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:31 pm

I wonder what suit actor Tsutmu Kitagawa would say if you asked him what his favorate Godzilla suit was in the Millennium series and why? As fans we know which suits are our favorates and I wonder if some of our favorates would match up with his.
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Postby MrShape666 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:23 am

Oh good, I'm not the only one who likes the GMK suit the best.

I would have made the dorsal plates bigger, however.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:43 pm

MrShape666 wrote:Oh good, I'm not the only one who likes the GMK suit the best.

I would have made the dorsal plates bigger, however.

i must evidently be the only one that likes the G2K suit best...
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:49 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
MrShape666 wrote:Oh good, I'm not the only one who likes the GMK suit the best.

I would have made the dorsal plates bigger, however.

i must evidently be the only one that likes the G2K suit best...


I'm in love with the maquette for that suit, but that's about it.
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Postby walshiam » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:55 pm

The banpresto toy based on that design beats them all (minus a few back teeth).
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Postby Bluejira » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:56 pm

My favorite is the GMK suit even with the neck and elephant foot (should have brought in a stunt foot for that shot) problems. Just loved the head design and coloring of the suit.. R The head reminds me of GRA and G85.
Second would be G200. Would be my favorite if the dorsal fins were more like G62 size and color. Loved the luminescent fins of G62.
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