Best millennium Goji Suit.

Discuss the millennium era of Godzilla films! From Godzilla 2000 Millennium to Godzilla Final Wars, these films comprised a wide variety of styles and topics!

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BEST MILLENNIUM GOJI

Poll ended at Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:21 pm

2000/ X Megaguirus
9
20%
GMK
14
32%
X Mechagodzilla/ SOS
12
27%
Final Wars
9
20%
 
Total votes : 44

Best millennium Goji Suit.

Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:21 pm

Poll time. I peeked back at the older posts and (at a decent glance) didn't see this up anywhere.

Needless to say, the millennium results are all in. Which is your favorite suit and why?

The 2000 MAQUETTE does NOT count. Movies only, please.

GMK was my choice for the longest time, having reasserted Goji's power and awe in its execution, but these days I'm going with the X Mechagodzilla/SOS design. I definitely think the X Mechagodzilla/SOS suit(s) doesn't get its proper acknowledgment, being shelved between the mighty (and kinda dumpy) GMK, and the AWFUL Duckzilla from Final Wars, and not to mention the stigma associated with it, as it was featured in some of the more "been there, done that" lackluster movies in the 3rd series.

But the more I look at 2003/2004 design... I dunno... it just does it for me. Smaller head to body ratio exudes mass and power like the 90's G. The spines are the updated millennium flavor and the silver color works well against the darker colored suit. The face was very expressionistic (especially in SOS), more-so than any suit before it. I like the sharp, pointed end of the tail and the overall sleekness of the design, yet it's not too skinny like the Final Wars suit. The neck is great with the frilly scales on each side. To me, it gives Godzilla a very regal look. The chest and legs are very well pronounced/proportioned and defined. His belly is great too, streamlined in a angled ridge. Arms/ shoulders/claws, just great and perfect for the ridgy, reptilian theme of the suit.

On the down side, I'm not always crazy about the snout from certain angles, but it doesn't really detract from the whole package. Also, the eyes can appear a little too benign at times, but definitely quite fierce and animalistic at others. They have a very unique look all of their own compared to all other suits (like ever) and look especially fierce when the the bottom eyelids are raised upwards a little (like when the audience sees him getting his 1st look at Mothra), or when his head is angled downward and he's glaring out from under his brow (like when he's coming ashore in the same movie).

SOOOOO what's your favorite if you had to choose (Showa diehards are welcome :wink: :D ).
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Postby SeaHawk » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:10 pm

I didn't know the 2000/Megaguirus and Kiryu/Tokyo SOS suits were different.
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:22 pm

Interesting point really. However, I truly feel that the Kiryu/Tokyo SOS suit was the improved upon design of the 2000/Megaguirus. Just 10X more refined. Less brutish, more sleek animal.
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Postby G2KMaster » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:01 pm

Dang, this is a very hard decision. It really is. I love all of the siuts in this series. For me, it is a tie between the G2K/GXM siut AKA Mire/Gira Goji and the GMK siut AKA Sokogecki-Goji siut. Though which one I will vote for sine you can only choose one, no one knows!
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:42 pm

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Postby howze01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:55 pm

Gotta go with GMK here. Despite the pot belly and wierd neck mentioned in another thread, I just love the menace that this suit exudes. To me, the semi-dumpiness of the suit just works too.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:41 pm

Kiryu Goji all the way...of all the post showa era looks for G..this is my favorite...granted it's not perfect...I hate the eyes (too muppet esque at times, no since of realism) and the gonzo snout...as well as my continued problem with all the Godzilla suits looking so clean and uniformly one color (it's a living animal who battles constantly with the military and other monsters and you are gonna tell me the skin is gonna be a flat color with no scars or discolorations or bits of debris ala GOTU Gamera's shell when he first surfaces or the bits of foliage in Kong's fur in the 05 film) but for what it is it is my deff favorite...
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:44 pm

howze01, yeah. It is a great suit. It only really put me off in the scene where it was "running" toward camera. After that, I can't quite get that strange perspective out of my mind. Oh well :?

And hell yeah King_Ghidorah! That is the sort of realism that toho ought to be churning out with their next go-round. It does hearken back very nicely with the philosophy of those Showa era technicians and artists.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:11 pm

It just angers me how much some of this work in suitmation these days seems to be phoned in...it's almost expresionist in the sense that it doesnt strive for realism at all..that works for Ultraman...Godzilla it just seems too forced...I dare say some of the Showa era effects and suits trump the suits of today....
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Postby Legion » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:32 pm

King_Ghidorah wrote:I dare say some of the Showa era effects and suits trump the suits of today....


Sure do. My problem with most of the Millennium suits is that they come off as being too plastic-y and artificial. The 2002/03 Godzilla suits are a good example. I love the design, but the suits look too clean and molded and I never really get the impression that Godzilla is a a living creature. The same goes with a lot of those absolutely horrid Final Wars suits, which look like cartoon characters come to life.

I really have no idea how anyone could say the '04 Rodan, Gigan, Angilas, Ebirah, Kamakiras, Kumonga and King Seasar suits/props are better than the ones from the Showa era. Some people do though, and that baffles me.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:44 pm

Legion wrote:
King_Ghidorah wrote:I dare say some of the Showa era effects and suits trump the suits of today....


Sure do. My problem with most of the Millennium suits is that they come off as being too plastic-y and artificial. The 2002/03 Godzilla suits are a good example. I love the design, but the suits look too clean and molded and I never really get the impression that Godzilla is a a living creature. The same goes with a lot of those absolutely horrid Final Wars suits, which look like cartoon characters come to life.

I really have no idea how anyone could say the '04 Rodan, Gigan, Angilas, Ebirah, Kamakiras, Kumonga and King Seasar suits/props are better than the ones from the Showa era. Some people do though, and that baffles me.


100% agreed
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Postby Zack Metoyer » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:03 pm

zekend01 wrote:Interesting point really. However, I truly feel that the Kiryu/Tokyo SOS suit was the improved upon design of the 2000/Megaguirus. Just 10X more refined. Less brutish, more sleek animal.


You sound like Patrick Tatopolous.

I think the Miregoji was far and away the most detailed of the films. Too bad its bulk made it kind of... rigid. The bright colors of Giragoji and the "dumb animal" look of the one from Tezuka's later films is a turn off. I think that GFW's had a nice Mosugoji-esque figure to it, but the expressionless face doesn't do much for me, so I'll go with GMK.
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:10 pm

The designs of the newer suits seem to making up for the suits that weren't quite the greatest follow ups to the original source. Rodan '64, Anguirus '68?

:puke:

Now, I absolutely love the Heisei Godzilla design, but like Legion said, they are way too plastic. They just don't move well. Still, I would be impossible to top the original Goji or Rodan or Anguirus in movement and more-over lifelike execution. They look pretty great too. Absolutely.

Aside from the 90's Godzilla (with the exception of Godzilla '62 and '64 as well), I don't think any follow up design tops the original incarnations of, say, Rodan, Anguirus, Gigan, or WHATEVER. Still, I'd have been super thrilled if the Final Wars Kaiju had half of the life in them that a suit can only get from a more organic, built up approach.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:15 pm

Uh....I like Anguirus 68
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:16 pm

...and I would too if I bought a $200 figure of it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Legion » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:34 pm

zekend01 wrote:The designs of the newer suits seem to making up for the suits that weren't quite the greatest follow ups to the original source. Rodan '64, Anguirus '68?


I'll give you Rodan but, you don't like the 1968 Angilas? That's one of my all-time favorite suits from the Showa era and I've always thought it was a really nice update of the original '55 design, with a fierce look (until the suit started to wear out) and a lot of character.

Now, I absolutely love the Heisei Godzilla design, but like Legion said, they are way too plastic.


I wasn't talking about the Heisei suits, actually. Just the Millennium ones. My all-time favorite Godzilla suits are in the Showa era, but I'd be lying if I said the '89/'91 and Burning Godzilla suits weren't awesome.

They just don't move well.


At first, but as time went on Ken Satsuma tried very hard to make the role his own and gave Godzilla as much character as he could despite how thick and bulky the suits were. Slowly but surely enough technical innovations were built into the heads of the Heisei suits that by the time Godzilla vs Destroyah came around Godzilla could really put on a good performance without an animatronic bust being used.

Even going back to Biollante and King Ghidora, when care was taken to depict Godzilla in just the right way the monster really was able to look alive. The Millennium suits (with the possible exception of the GMK Godzilla) are stiff and boring and offer the suit actors no opportunity to truly act, so that none of that Godzillas in that era really have a personality.

Aside from the 90's Godzilla (with the exception of Godzilla '62 and '64 as well), I don't think any follow up design tops the original incarnations of, say, Rodan, Anguirus, Gigan, or WHATEVER.


The thing with Godzilla is that there have been so many different incarnations of the character I think it's silly to compare the various suit styles to the original '54 version. IMHO, the '62, '64, '68, '73 and Heisei suits all work beautifully for the tone and style of the movies in which they appear in. However, it's easier to compare the original suits of the other monsters to their later counterparts. And in that regard (at least in my opinion) nothing comes close to the Showa versions. I'll never get why people like the GFW Gigan so much as (even though it's an outlandish design) the original Gigan is just perfect.

And it goes without saying that Tsuburaya's original King Ghidora and '64 adult Mothra were both masterpieces. And neither have been topped.

Still, I'd have been super thrilled if the Final Wars Kaiju had half of the life in them that a suit can only get from a more organic, built up approach.


Lets remember all the GFW suits were built on the same budget that was given for suits built for Tokyo SOS the year before. Explains why they came out the way they did, and why nothing moves on the Godzilla suit aside from the mouth.
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Postby Legacy_Of_Gamera » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:45 pm

Something that still strikes me as pathetic about the newer suits is the Mothra larva tail bite scene in Mothra vs. Godzilla and GMMG: Tokyo SOS. Just look at how stiff, robotic, and unnatural this scene looks like in GMMG: Tokyo SOS and compare it to the much better executed scene 40 years earlier in Mothra vs. Godzilla.
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Postby Kaiju Nexus » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:51 pm

Final Goji. Yes, I'm serious.

I love all the other suits as well for various reasons. But in terms of sheer design and concept, I love the Final Wars suit.
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:52 pm

Yeah, I admit that I'm no big fan of the Anguirus '68. The only thing that it added was a better arrangement of spikes on his back (more random I guess), otherwise his big ol' eyes and and more compact snout didn't really thrill me. I like the final wars version better than the '68, but both fall short to the '55 to me.

I found those 90's suits pretty stiff really, I have to say, though visually just beautiful (Godzilla anyway). I like Satsuma, but he seems kinda bi-polar at times. Maybe like bi-polar disorder. I wonder if it affected his performance as he famously clashed with Koichi Kawakita over time. In fact, I'd say that his Biollante performance was probably the one that stood out the most to me. Yeah, I felt he could have done tons better in Destroyer too.

Really though, I think cinematography is probably the biggest deciding factor in determining the range of expression and effectiveness for a given suit. Take Godzilla '54. The stiffest suit of all. But with the right lighting and camera angles, and hell, maybe because it was in black and white as well, that particular suit conveyed absolute volumes of terror and horror and awe and poignancy.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:53 pm

While I love the design of the Final Wars suit I have to give this to GMK-Goji.
My reasoning is that the suit just moved better. Sure the big guy, and he was big, looked a little funny with his gut....but I felt he moved in a more lifelike way than any of the other millenium suits. One thing I noticed about the performance of Godzilla in GMK, for some weird reason, is how much movement is in the arms. I don't think I can remember any such thing for any of the other suits. I do recall the eye animatronics used in Tokyo S.O.S., but GMK gets my vote.
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Postby godziwolf » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:58 am

Legion wrote:I really have no idea how anyone could say the '04 Rodan, Gigan, Angilas, Ebirah, Kamakiras, Kumonga and King Seasar suits/props are better than the ones from the Showa era. Some people do though, and that baffles me.


I preferred standing Angilas to crawling Angilas. That knee-based crawl never looked right for a supposed quadruped, and I'm glad they abandoned it.

I also liked the newer Seesar. Old Seesar looked liked Godzilla's dog.
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Postby kpa » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:48 am

Count me on the list of fans who prefer the FINAL WARS Angilas to the 1968 version. That's one of the few monsters I thought came across really well in the 2004 film.

Legion wrote:
zekend01 wrote:Still, I'd have been super thrilled if the Final Wars Kaiju had half of the life in them that a suit can only get from a more organic, built up approach.


Lets remember all the GFW suits were built on the same budget that was given for suits built for Tokyo SOS the year before. Explains why they came out the way they did, and why nothing moves on the Godzilla suit aside from the mouth.


I can remember when Godzilla suit maker Shinichi Wakasa vacationed in LA back in 2003 or 04 and we went to the FX studios KNB and Spectral Motion. Spectral Motion was building creatures and props for HELLBOY at that time, and Wakasa lamented that the budgets would never allow him to use the same quality of latex and materials for Godzilla.
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:16 am

kpa wrote:I can remember when Godzilla suit maker Shinichi Wakasa vacationed in LA back in 2003 or 04 and we went to the FX studios KNB and Spectral Motion. Spectral Motion was building creatures and props for HELLBOY at that time, and Wakasa lamented that the budgets would never allow him to use the same quality of latex and materials for Godzilla.


Ahhh... so many "what ifs" in this hobby... *sigh*
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Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:36 am

The Final Wars suit gets my vote. The slimmer form and lighter material really allowed Kitagawa to bring Godzilla to life with his performance. I also dig the design, especially the shadowed eyes.


SeaHawk wrote:I didn't know the 2000/Megaguirus and Kiryu/Tokyo SOS suits were different.


All of the Millennium films had a freshly made Godzilla suit.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:58 pm

King_Ghidorah wrote:
Legion wrote:
King_Ghidorah wrote:I dare say some of the Showa era effects and suits trump the suits of today....


Sure do. My problem with most of the Millennium suits is that they come off as being too plastic-y and artificial. The 2002/03 Godzilla suits are a good example. I love the design, but the suits look too clean and molded and I never really get the impression that Godzilla is a a living creature. The same goes with a lot of those absolutely horrid Final Wars suits, which look like cartoon characters come to life.

I really have no idea how anyone could say the '04 Rodan, Gigan, Angilas, Ebirah, Kamakiras, Kumonga and King Seasar suits/props are better than the ones from the Showa era. Some people do though, and that baffles me.


100% agreed

I thought the '04 Gigan suit was actually quite good (to say nothing of the flying prop)
The new King Seasar suit wasn't bad either and neither was Rodan.
Anguirus, Ebirah and Kumonga are all awful though...
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