Godzilla's relevancy today

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Godzilla's relevancy today

Postby GiganGoji » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:42 pm

The original Gojira was for the aftermaths of atomic weapons.
G vs Hedorah was on pollution.
All the Mothra ones were about protecting the earth.
GxM had stuff in it about other energy sources.

What relevancy do the new films have today?
Or are they just references to the first film, or just fun fantasy?
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Postby Andrew Nguyen » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:43 pm

Well most of them are usually fun and fantasy although some do have relevancy but they're usually swamped by the fun and fantasy aspect.
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Re: Godzilla's relevancy today

Postby Rouge Message » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:46 pm

GiganGoji wrote:What relevancy do the new films have today?


Apparently, since Godzilla's taking a long break because of poor box office returns, none.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:19 am

^Ouch, i would have to partially agree though, prehaps thats why the new ones failed. Suitmation was outdated since stop motion, way back in 1933 with King Kong. Why Godzilla films have succeded i believe, is because they always had some relevance or were at least fun. Dont get me wrong i love these movies, but its time for someone to push the envelope, and not in a Final Wars type way. A kaiju film of today needs to be relevant or at least mantain a sense of nostalgia, problem with that is the targeted audience has most likely never seen old kaiju films to taking them back to that era feels probably pretty stupid. Imagine a Godzilla films that deals with the concept of war, that is very relevant in todays society. Think about it the original was released in 1954, when war was still deep in everyones mind, and then you have the ultimate embodiement of man's hatred and warlike tendencies,looming over buildings, unstoppable, unnegotiable, its doesnt spare women or children and it doesnt care about which political view you have, when everyone is fleeing in the streets, there are no left wing or right wing, just people, scared people. Thats what a good horror/kauji film should do, give people a sense of unity that we are all people, and its because of our dark sides, our inhospility towards are own kind, that monsters are made. The flip side to that is to make a really fun film with cutting edge effects, think of a Gamera film by Miyazaki (Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle) I dont know but i think the reasons these last films have failed is because a lack of imagination or a lack of skill behind potential good ideas.
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Postby Andrew Nguyen » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:27 am

King_Ghidorah wrote:^Ouch, i would have to partially agree though, prehaps thats why the new ones failed. Suitmation was outdated since stop motion, way back in 1933 with King Kong. Why Godzilla films have succeded i believe, is because they always had some relevance or were at least fun. Dont get me wrong i love these movies, but its time for someone to push the envelope, and not in a Final Wars type way. A kaiju film of today needs to be relevant or at least mantain a sense of nostalgia, problem with that is the targeted audience has most likely never seen old kaiju films to taking them back to that era feels probably pretty stupid. Imagine a Godzilla films that deals with the concept of war, that is very relevant in todays society. Think about it the original was released in 1954, when war was still deep in everyones mind, and then you have the ultimate embodiement of man's hatred and warlike tendencies,looming over buildings, unstoppable, unnegotiable, its doesnt spare women or children and it doesnt care about which political view you have, when everyone is fleeing in the streets, there are no left wing or right wing, just people, scared people. Thats what a good horror/kauji film should do, give people a sense of unity that we are all people, and its because of our dark sides, our inhospility towards are own kind, that monsters are made. The flip side to that is to make a really fun film with cutting edge effects, think of a Gamera film by Miyazaki (Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle) I dont know but i think the reasons these last films have failed is because a lack of imagination or a lack of skill behind potential good ideas.
KG



The gist of what you have just said is an excellent statement. Unfortunately, there may be some that don't like the idea at all, (reading all the stuff about those that despised GMK persuaded me to mention it).


Oh and the reason why the last few films failed has already been mentioned way too many times, so I won't go into it here. Mostly its because of burnout among the audience and to a lesser extent perhaps the people of Toho studios that actually work on the movies themselves.
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Postby Ultra T-Rex » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:56 am

King_Ghidorah wrote:^Ouch, i would have to partially agree though, prehaps thats why the new ones failed. Suitmation was outdated since stop motion, way back in 1933 with King Kong.


Strange then that suits are still used while stop motion is nowhere to be seen. :wink:
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:19 am

Yes i merely state my interpretation of the facts, i can only sumise that suits are still around because they are cheaper and if and when done right(i.e hidden in shadows and used with other various techniques) they can work relatively well, stop motion even with motion blur has its faults as does cgi, i think depending entirely on one technique is the problem, or trying half a$$ at cgi which looks far worse than any suit.
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Postby Xenorama » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:06 pm

odd, it seems like two stop-motion movies were up for Academy Awards this year, and one, done with CLAY, won.
stop-motion is as alive and well as men in suits, despite people saying cg is the only way to go.

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Postby zekend01 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:26 pm

G movies simplly can't be B-movies anymore.
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Postby lhb412 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:25 pm

TOHO simply needs to put more time and effort into their G movies. The Gamera films had about the same budget as the Heisei films, but they were of a much higher quality that the Millinium series G films never surpassed.


Of course I have no idea how to "sell" Godzilla movies. I've never been very goal oriented you know? I'd rather be happy than rich.
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:17 am

^^ Heh! And happier still watching a well crafted G movie! So much COULD be done with less FLOW...

It's that dang OLD GUARD of Toho heads that won't deviate from the status quo. Hope they agree on some progressive ideas for the future... I don't want Godzy going out like a punk!!!
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Postby BrianBuck » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:16 pm

With that communist lunatic Kim Jong II preparing to test a long-range ballistic missile that could hit the US, and the possibility of said missile, if launched in an attack, could be nuclear capable; I'd say Godzilla remains as relevant today as he was 50 years ago.
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Postby zekend01 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:30 pm

True dat. Successive generations find it harder and harder to relate to such horrors (sadly). Same with the holocaust... That's when history repeats itself: when people forget. I'd hate for a country to have to get nuked for a Godzilla film to really hit home like the 1st one did.
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Postby TheMaster » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:18 am

History really is cyclical and as such Goji will always be relevant in some way.
Entertainment wise(which is primarily what he is guys, not some anti-war statement) people/kids will always like dinos/destruction scenes, they just have to be in a well made movie. History wise it is interesting that we have environmental issues again in the headlines and entertainment. I remember being 4 or 5 and seeing Smog Monster(one of my faves) and that movie was SO leaden with anti pollution messages. Ironic cuz that was 30 years ago and here we have an Al Gore moviewith the same message. Although I hear he was portrayed by a man in a suit as well, just less animated!.
Also as someone pointed out we have a few nutballs trying to get nuclear weapons(not to mention the possibility of a terrorist generated bomb) to the point of launching missles. And each of those scenarios present a big danger to us all here. So the threat of nuclear holocaust might even be MORE relevant currently than it was in its heyday(50's) which helped birth Goji.
So on all fronts to me Goji is relevant. However I think his makers are everybit as clueless as their Hollywood counterparts. So someday mayber we will see that ultimate Goji film, but not for awhile.
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Postby zekend01 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:29 pm

Really, I think G movies are anti-america movies when you get down to it. I feel that it is the true unspoken sentiment. I don't have a problem with this myself.

If there was no HIROSHIMA and NAGASAKI there would have been no Godzilla like we know it. There may way have still been giant-monster-on-the-loose movies, but these wouldn't have had the same impact.
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Postby lhb412 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:39 pm

Why isn't anyone talking about complete and utter nuclear disarmament? What do we need 'em for? It seems to me we should get rid of all of em and outlaw the creation of them an any other weapons cabable of doing such a level of destruction. Problem solved; the world's a better place.

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Postby kidnicky » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:40 pm

^ I dont know about "Anti-American",but yeah its pretty obvious that without the A-bomb,Godzilla would have no where near the impact he ended up having.

And Master,I wouldnt call the continuing need for enviromental films "ironic",its more sad than anything. Its also a little sad that the latest one will fall on deaf ears due to people making "witty" one liners about a politician from an opposing party to theirs instead of the message hes presenting. Really,in the long run,any ulterior political motive Gore may have,or his lack of charisma,isnt as important as the issues hes making people aware of.

BTW,my computer wont let me type apostraphes for some reason.
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Postby kidnicky » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:47 am

^ I realised I came across as a little harsh in my last post,I'm just a little wound up due to the fact that all I've read/heard about this film is knocks on Al Gore. Not that I'm some kind of Al Gore supporter or something,but dismissing serious issues because you dislike the person who brought them up is a bad idea.
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Postby TheMaster » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:29 pm

kidnicky wrote:^ I realised I came across as a little harsh in my last post,I'm just a little wound up due to the fact that all I've read/heard about this film is knocks on Al Gore. Not that I'm some kind of Al Gore supporter or something,but dismissing serious issues because you dislike the person who brought them up is a bad idea.


Shouldn't assume nicky. Number one I never dismissed the seriousness of global warming.
I did however make a JOKE about Gores demeanor-which he does on himself frequently(hes been great on SNL).
Satire and jokes don't always mean support or detraction. The "irony" I meant referred to how cyclical things are with humans-hardly a condemnation of Gore. We have the same issues over and over-which is kinda the topic of this thread/my post-godzillas relevancy TODAY.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but even my tree hugging friends see it as kinda boring because its mainly 2 hours of him lecturing.Nothing to do with the subject, just rating a movie.
I'm open to see it as I do care about that stuff, but it seems more a rental than anything. Unless theres the typical fact manipulation I think we need to see problems as they are instead of "red state vs blue state" mentality.
And you should focus on my main point instead of being sensitive about something that's unintentional. So sometimes a joke does not refer to a political position. I'll joke about anything and anyone from Reagan to Bush to Clinton to Gore. Unfortunately it seems the modern political environment is making everyone hypersensitive.
Remember life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think! And sorry Gore was actually portrayed with motion capture CGI and a "cybot! :wink:
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Postby GiganGoji » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:37 pm

TheMaster wrote:
kidnicky wrote:^ I realised I came across as a little harsh in my last post,I'm just a little wound up due to the fact that all I've read/heard about this film is knocks on Al Gore. Not that I'm some kind of Al Gore supporter or something,but dismissing serious issues because you dislike the person who brought them up is a bad idea.


Shouldn't assume nicky. Number one I never dismissed the seriousness of global warming.
I did however make a JOKE about Gores demeanor-which he does on himself frequently(hes been great on SNL).
Satire and jokes don't always mean support or detraction. The "irony" I meant referred to how cyclical things are with humans-hardly a condemnation of Gore. We have the same issues over and over-which is kinda the topic of this thread/my post-godzillas relevancy TODAY.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but even my tree hugging friends see it as kinda boring because its mainly 2 hours of him lecturing.Nothing to do with the subject, just rating a movie.
I'm open to see it as I do care about that stuff, but it seems more a rental than anything. Unless theres the typical fact manipulation I think we need to see problems as they are instead of "red state vs blue state" mentality.
And you should focus on my main point instead of being sensitive about something that's unintentional. So sometimes a joke does not refer to a political position. I'll joke about anything and anyone from Reagan to Bush to Clinton to Gore. Unfortunately it seems the modern political environment is making everyone hypersensitive.
Remember life is a tragedy to those who feel and a comedy to those who think! And sorry Gore was actually portrayed with motion capture CGI and a "cybot! :wink:


So, when can we expect a Bandai figure release? :P

But seriously, we could all use the messages of Mothra and Hedorah and such today. Just show people Godzilla vs Hedorah. Then at least they're entertained.

The same messages we are trying to say today are common messages that have been brought up in previous G films.
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Postby TheMaster » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:39 pm

^What he said! therefore=still relevant! You couldalmost add Goji is relevant so long as humans are stupid and greedy!

And yes Bandai is also doing a theatre premium Al Gore that is transparent but already is going for 200 bucks from your local comic shops!
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Postby GiganGoji » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:01 am

TheMaster wrote:And yes Bandai is also doing a theatre premium Al Gore that is transparent but already is going for 200 bucks from your local comic shops!


And of course, due to the low sales of the previous foe figure, Bandai is discouraged from making a full size Global Warming vinyl figure, so it'll be packaged in a set with the Gore figure.
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Postby kidnicky » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:11 am

TheMaster wrote:^What he said! therefore=still relevant! You couldalmost add Goji is relevant so long as humans are stupid and greedy!

And yes Bandai is also doing a theatre premium Al Gore that is transparent but already is going for 200 bucks from your local comic shops!


This reminds me of how much I hate my local comic shop. (Way off topic now) I wanted to purchase a Megalon vinyl,and of course the price isn't marked. So I asked the d-bag who runs the place to open up the case and check on the price,and even though he'd prefer to sit in a seated position until his legs are fully atrophied,he finally stopped watching the TV and checked. It didn't have any price on it,so he said ,"Well this one says $55,so I'll give it to you for that." The $55 figure was a theater exclusive Goji. WTF?
I was about to explain the concept of "limited editions" to him,but he doesn't care,so now I purchase my Bandais online. The shipping is worth it.

Master-what I was trying to say in my last post was I was previously angry about people's attitudes that the enviroment is a non issue,and the Al Gore jokes and such before I even read your post,so I really just snapped at you for no reason. Sorry.
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Postby TheMaster » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:33 am

^ Don't worry about it-It happens and I've certainly done my share. And your point was totally valid(people are a little self absorbed these days), and based on some of my earlier musings(like on the Daily Show or Superman) I can see why you would misunderstand. Hard to totally know someone based on Godzilla board postings!
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Postby zekend01 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:59 pm

Since this is getting somewhat to the point of it all, let me just add to this that it isn't really about Gore vs. Bush, demo vs. repub.

Nope.

Truthfully... TRUTHFULLY... don't we all know by now that this government, or whatever government, is essentially the equivelent of mid-management for the top wealth holders that certainly determine the dominant context? I HATE it, but the meaning life is CONSUMERISM. I mean these bastards can give soft money to both canidates during whatever election. The democratic process is tripe because of the inherent under-representation in our bi-partisan system. I'd almost prefer a parlementary system... but heck! It is mostly the old farts votein' anyway. The kind of folks who will trade in their liberties so the rest of their lives will be quiet and "secure".

I weep for the future.
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