TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby goji4ever » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:20 pm

Looking back on this film it has aged quite well...though not perfect, many parts of this film have aged very well.
If anything perhaps the stiffness and lack of maneuverability of the Orga suit is irritating, though solid staging of the final battle keeps things moving along.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby MekaGojira3k » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:54 pm

goji4ever wrote:Looking back on this film it has aged quite well...though not perfect, many parts of this film have aged very well.
If anything perhaps the stiffness and lack of maneuverability of the Orga suit is irritating, though solid staging of the final battle keeps things moving along.


If Orga's fingers moved even slightly that'd help, plus there's some weak effects shots. I still think this is a great movie. It's very much like vs. Gigan for me, flawed but a lot of fun.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:44 pm

G2K is vastly overrated. Orga sucks. The SPFX have some very terrible moments. The story is boring.

Meh, I just don't get the appeal. Katagiri? Not enough to carry this movie on his own. The characters are fine, but the monster stuff really sucks for the most part. Also, Godzilla just looks derpy. For every shot the suit looks really cool, it looks doubly awful in others.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:27 pm

I really don't know that it's overrated. For the longest time I never heard anyone say anything about this film. Nobody hated it, but nobody really liked it that much either.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:41 pm

Hybrid Gojira wrote:G2K is vastly overrated. Orga sucks. The SPFX have some very terrible moments. The story is boring.

Meh, I just don't get the appeal. Katagiri? Not enough to carry this movie on his own. The characters are fine, but the monster stuff really sucks for the most part. Also, Godzilla just looks derpy. For every shot the suit looks really cool, it looks doubly awful in others.

You just think it's overrated because I love it and you're wrong.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby walshiam » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:52 pm

I think the "storm chaser" angle was a fine approach. Boring it was not.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby Dr Kain » Fri May 29, 2015 12:41 am

Hybrid Gojira wrote:G2K is vastly overrated. Orga sucks. The SPFX have some very terrible moments. The story is boring.

Meh, I just don't get the appeal. Katagiri? Not enough to carry this movie on his own. The characters are fine, but the monster stuff really sucks for the most part. Also, Godzilla just looks derpy. For every shot the suit looks really cool, it looks doubly awful in others.


I can not agree with you at all.

Orga might not be great, but he doesn't suck. He is able to move a whole hell of a lot better than SpaceG or Destoroyah ever could. The problem is actually with the choreography of the fight, not the monster.

The effects do have terrible moments, especially when it comes to the green screen and CGI moments. However, the miniatures and cinematography are top notch. There is furniture in some of the freaking buildings.

The characters are great too. Sure, they aren't at the top of my list, but they all have great chemistry with one another and they all need each other. Io is probably the best child character in the series ever. Her and Shinoda can work independently from each other, but they clearly need each other to survive.

The Godzilla suit is flawed, but it is great and a refreshing sight from what came before it. Not to mention scaling him back down to the 50m range was the best decision ever.

The plot is very Showa-esque, but it does retain a few of the groan inducing rip-offs that Okawara did in the Heisei era. Thankfully, they aren't as blatantly in your face in this one as his past movies.

If I were to rank 2000 in my overall order, I'd say it would probably be between 13-16. It is better than Final Wars and Destroy All Monsters, but maybe not so with King Kong vs.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby king_ghidorah » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:36 pm

DAMN this movie is so uneven. Rewatching it now and it's so frustrating. Like G 14, I feel like every scene Godzilla is in is gold. Love the Godzilla design, and I love the personality on display here. It's also my absolute favorite version of the atomic breath on screen to date.

The human cast is probably the best we've had since the 60s in my opinion. The minatures look great...about half of the time.

But that CGI is so damned ugly. Horrible. The film also has a incredibly boring middle section.

I have no idea how to rate this film. It has one of my favorite intros to a Godzilla film ever and I really dig the final fight, but there's a lot of bad in this film too which can be pretty much summed up with that horrible swimming Godzilla.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:43 am

The CGI is bad...but it's scarily on roughly par with the 1998 film (or at least, the MSG sequence of the 1998 film, where the overall effects went completely to hell).

I can forgive the bad CGI though, given the general nature of shaky effects throughout the franchise. There is a lull in the middle, but like you said: the Godzilla stuff is gold and I really, REALLY like this cast, so it doesn't bother me too much.

It's a top 10 film for me, though just barely so (I usually put it around 9 or 10).
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby lhb412 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:36 am

I can still hardly believe how much less I liked the Japanese version when I first saw it a few months ago. Sony and Mike S.'s tinkering (improved pacing, some tongue in cheek humor, beefed up sound effects and music) helps the film tremendously. The U.S. version is a highlight of the Millennium series for me, but if I was limited to just the original version I'd find the film pretty forgettable.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:35 pm

lhb412 wrote:I can still hardly believe how much less I liked the Japanese version when I first saw it a few months ago. Sony and Mike S.'s tinkering (improved pacing, some tongue in cheek humor, beefed up sound effects and music) helps the film tremendously. The U.S. version is a highlight of the Millennium series for me, but if I was limited to just the original version I'd find the film pretty forgettable.

Agreed. It's the only Japanese cut that I think is significantly worse than the American edit.

I prefer the American edit of 85, but I don't find the Japanese version overly inferior.

The Japanese version of G2K seems to lack life.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby XvGojira » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:08 pm

And the endless waves of choppers and tanks. Yes we get it, they are amassing a lot of fire power. We don't need to see every single tank roll into position.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby lhb412 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:23 pm

It makes me wonder how many Millennium and Heisei Godzilla films could have benefited from similar tinkering to what G2K got. A big problem most modern Godzilla films have is that they're just too padded and have subplots that don't go anywhere.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:04 am

lhb412 wrote:It makes me wonder how many Millennium and Heisei Godzilla films could have benefited from similar tinkering to what G2K got. A big problem most modern Godzilla films have is that they're just too padded and have subplots that don't go anywhere.

Yeah, I bet a lot of Heisei films especially could have been more enjoyable at a trim 80-85 minutes instead of the more bloated 105 minute running times they seem to have.

And for me personally, I could make GFW a film I'd REALLY like (instead of just one I mostly like) with nothing but editing (to make it a film I'd LOVE, I'd need a couple reshoots to tinker with the Xilien plotline a little bit more and fully remove the false heroism stuff, instead of just trimming it way down).
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby DannyBeane » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:08 am

jellydonut25 wrote:
lhb412 wrote:It makes me wonder how many Millennium and Heisei Godzilla films could have benefited from similar tinkering to what G2K got. A big problem most modern Godzilla films have is that they're just too padded and have subplots that don't go anywhere.

Yeah, I bet a lot of Heisei films especially could have been more enjoyable at a trim 80-85 minutes instead of the more bloated 105 minute running times they seem to have.

And for me personally, I could make GFW a film I'd REALLY like (instead of just one I mostly like) with nothing but editing (to make it a film I'd LOVE, I'd need a couple reshoots to tinker with the Xilien plotline a little bit more and fully remove the false heroism stuff, instead of just trimming it way down).

If you cut out the motorcycle chase/fight Gfw just got 10% better.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby XvGojira » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:29 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:Yeah, I bet a lot of Heisei films especially could have been more enjoyable at a trim 80-85 minutes instead of the more bloated 105 minute running times they seem to have.

And for me personally, I could make GFW a film I'd REALLY like (instead of just one I mostly like) with nothing but editing (to make it a film I'd LOVE, I'd need a couple reshoots to tinker with the Xilien plotline a little bit more and fully remove the false heroism stuff, instead of just trimming it way down).


I miss-read that as trim 80-85 minutes out of the films. :lol:
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby Jared » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:38 am

GODZILLA 2000 is just a plain, generic Godzilla film - which is exactly what I enjoy about it. It's completely without pretension and is aware of its modest goals, and mostly succeeds, particularly in the far superior US cut. Still, some of the effects are among the worst of the entire series...the CGI in particular, as Toho's tech just wasn't up to the task in those days. Also, I feel like there's a lot of unexplored potential in the script, particularly the dynamic between Shinoda, Miyasaka and Katagiri.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:06 am

lhb412 wrote:It makes me wonder how many Millennium and Heisei Godzilla films could have benefited from similar tinkering to what G2K got. A big problem most modern Godzilla films have is that they're just too padded and have subplots that don't go anywhere.


That's one of the reasons why I think the Kiryu movies ended up being so good. They didn't bother with the 15 minutes of crap to stretch out their run time. I bet Megaguirus would have been better at 88 minutes as well.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby H-Man » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:56 pm

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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby Gman2887 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:54 am

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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby lhb412 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:28 am

Hybrid Gojira wrote: The SPFX have some very terrible moments.


The digital compositing really jumps out at you now, especially when smoke or debris is feature. I don't remember it doing that in '00, but as the years tick by those are the effects that age the worst.
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Re: TALKBACK #23: Godzilla 2000

Postby lhb412 » Sun May 12, 2019 2:26 am

... the bad thing about the bad compositing being distracting is that it distracts from some fantastic miniature work with the city in the finale. There are some gorgeous models in there.
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