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TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II • Monster Zero x SciFi Japan

TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Discuss the 2nd Godzilla film era here! Beam fights, revised versions of classic kaiju, the Heisei era was a mixed bag of fun and controversy!

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Postby eabaker » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:48 pm

Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:53 pm

Gills.

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Postby Gojilove » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:00 pm

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Tomzilla » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:16 am

Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II remains one of my favorite Heisei Godzilla films. Yeah, it has really cool creature designs. Yep, it has a simple yet effective plot. Sure, it has one of the best soundtracks, and the battles are nifty. But there's a new reason why I like it.

I hadn't noticed a very interesting subplot until now. This is a nice treat, because I've watched this film for years, so finding something new is always refreshing. I liked how in the end we see the major difference between Humankind and Godzilla. Even after getting their hands on technology from the future, what do the humans do? They build a RMD (Robot of Mass Destruction). It seems in this world, human inventions are designed for either violent or entertainment purposes, sometimes both. It's just a callback to when our ancestors sharpened the first spear. But even with all our advanced technology, even after succeeding in killing our greatest nemesis, MechaGodzilla is still reduced to molten slag. If humankind continues to pour all its creativity and innovation into war, we will always end up like MechaGodzilla.

Godzilla, however, returned to the sea with his adopted son. When Godzilla found something new in life, he didn't weaponize it, unlike humankind. Instead, Godzilla found peace. That's why it was implied in the ending that Godzilla and his kind will be here long after we're gone.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:38 pm

that message is POUNDED into our faces in this film.

it brings up a big reason why I hate this movie maybe more than Space Godzilla though, honestly: this movie de-villainizes Godzilla, and makes it so that the film lacks any sense of urgency and there's no real impetus for the creation and use of Mechagodzilla.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Gman2887 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:08 am

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:23 am

Yeah, it's not earth shattering, but that's a nice observation.

Still can't fix MAGICAL FERN MUSIC UPGRADE and DERPDAN.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:02 pm

Gills.

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby msunz27 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:30 pm

Gonna watch my R2 dvd of this on Wed. the 11th for its 20th anniversary. Not my favorite Heisei film but the best of the last 4 after the first 3 (think I wrote that right).
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:20 pm

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:39 am

Gills.

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Inferior Rodan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:58 pm

Random question sense this came up on a facebook post. Tell what all you think of this quote:

"Likewise Godzilla also shows the first signs of melting down in MGII an event which escalates until G vs. D."

I call complete BS on this but i'm honestly wondering if anybody else ever thought this.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:15 pm

"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:36 pm

I call BS. Especially since GvD pretty much specifically states that it was the Bass (Birth?) Island incident that led to Godzilla's meltdown.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Psycho Soldier » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:32 pm

I think one of the manga attributed Godzilla's meltdown to a virus contracted from SpaceGodzilla's crystals, or something like that. Which is obviously not in the movies, but eh, I thought I'd bring it up for curiosity's sake.

As for the movies themselves, I figure that the power boost from Rodan pushed Godzilla slightly closer to meltdown territory, but he never would have crossed the threshold without the Birth Island explosion. Otherwise, he would have just had this cool red beam to bust out at the end of a fight.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:04 am

I think the cause for Godzilla's meltdown was the island incident. Anything more is just fans inferring stuff that was not actually intended. The manga idea sounds interesting... not sure I've heard that one before.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Rodanex » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:18 am

I thought Godzilla's meltdown caused the destruction of Birth Island, not the other way around.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby kiryugoji04 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:19 am

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Rodanex » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:56 pm

So what destroyed Birth Island? I'd go and check but all my Godzilla movies are on VHS and my VCR broke.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:04 pm

Gills.

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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby DannyBeane » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:26 pm



I have almost nothing serious to add to any conversation ever.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:15 pm

Birth Island was destroyed by the same thing that destroyed the Legendary thread: Godzilla's feet.
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby Pkmatrix » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:44 am

Geez, I must've been pretty lazy in August to post these reviews only at TK! Well, let's correct that: in August I sat and watched GvMG2 (or, as I generally prefer to call this one, Godzilla vs. Super-Mechagodzilla).

I liked it!

While I had pretty mixed (though overall positive) feelings toward GvKG and GvM'92, I think I overall liked this one and would say it's easily better than the previous two (though, obviously, still not as good as '80s Godzilla). In fact, I can see why this was a fan favorite for a long time and why fans loved it when it first came out: after the previous two movies being so problematic, Biollante not going over well with some (and unseen by most), G85 being a solo outing, and the 9-year hiatus before, this movie would have seemed like a glorious return to form to a fanbase clamoring for something evocative of Showa Godzilla's better entries.

The characters are more fun (if not as nuanced as the main characters were in GvM'92), the story is exciting, and there's plenty of action. Unlike GvM'92, this is a movie where Godzilla and our main human characters (Aoki, Azusa, and Miki) are essential to what's happening from start to finish. For a change, Godzilla and Rodan are given clear motivations for their actions and clear goals that they are trying to achieve, something we expect of human characters but is fairly rare for the monsters. We also have a third Act! Our human characters actually have things to do for the WHOLE movie, something we haven't seen since Biollante! Finally, Miki is made relevant to what's going on again and is given an actual character arc. If I have any complaint about the characters, it's that I don't understand why Aoki is our protagonist. Azusa or Miki would make much more sense, they're the ones with the real stories here (Azusa: the scientist who becomes foster mother to Baby Godzilla; Miki: transforms from ardent anti-Godzilla G-Force member to a woman who hesitates to pull the trigger to kill him, and even cares enough to say good-bye at the end). When you really think about it, Aoki doesn't really have a character arc or do much of any real importance...the only things he DOES (as opposed to the many things that happen TO him) are steal the fern sample and pilot Garuda in the third Act. If anything, he's the movie's comedy relief! It's almost like Omori handed in a script with two women as the main characters and was told, "Two women and no male lead? No. Make this comic relief character, Azusa's love interest, into the male lead instead."

Overall, I'd say this movie feels much better written than the previous two. There are some other things I would've tinkered with to improve (ex. make it a bit clearer that you're NOT supposed to root for Mechagodzilla, a point that you can pick up by paying attention to the MG Crew Commander and G-Force higher-ups, none of whom are really treated all that sympathetically), but in general I'm happy with this story. I didn't think much about the implications of them reverse engineering future tech to build Mechagodzilla (I don't think we're supposed to dwell on it, either), and I liked the lower brain plot point.

FX-wise, though, is another step down. Rodan looks AWFUL. The design is fine, but close ups make him look as if he's made of plastic and the long shots look like they're animating an action figure. It's horrible. The insanely slow flapping of the wings is really what kills it - the unflapping wings of the '50s version looked more effective in motion than this! The Godzilla suit doesn't look much different than the previous one, but that animatronic head! What happened! It looks...smaller, smoother, and (again) like it's made of plastic. Maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the DVD, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as in previous films except for maybe a few shots here or there. Oddly enough, Mechagodzilla looks fine (although that flying prop looks pretty bad too). The army battle scene doesn't look quite as bad as the Mothra v. Tanks scene in GvM'92, but isn't really all that much better (plus the way it's shot makes it REALLY obvious that this is a small closed set). Also, my god, so many sparks! Are blood effects and squibs really so difficult to do?

I haven't said anything for the previous two movies (since I really didn't care at all for them), but the soundtrack in this movie is quite good. I've always loved Mechagodzilla's theme here, it really provides an extra oomph that helps push this movie from "It was okay" to "I liked it!"
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby briizilla » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:27 pm

I don't know. I still like this one. Its the closest to having the feel of a Showa movie to me. The characters at least have purpose and I think Aoki is actually pretty entertaining. The birth island sequence is pretty awesome and Godzillas rampage is well done. The fern music and terrible flying robo-Pteranodon effect are groan inducing however.

It would have been pretty cool had they used the original ending and not the "Gorgo ending".
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Re: TALKBACK #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:22 pm

Original ending?
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