TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Discuss the 2nd Godzilla film era here! Beam fights, revised versions of classic kaiju, the Heisei era was a mixed bag of fun and controversy!

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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed May 07, 2014 11:41 am

This movie is a dookie.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby davezilla » Wed May 07, 2014 9:40 pm

Well this was my G-flick tonight, one that I haven't seen in a while. Sadly my feelings toward it have dampened a little. I guess I'm looking at it with a more critical eye. The script is awful! :-( I mean seriously it feels so rushed and hacked together it's a utter disappointment overall. It really is a shame because I LOVE Mothra and I LOVE Battra. I want to love this movie so much but I just can't "love" it. I don't know if I should list what's wrong with it first (cause there's so much) or what is good.

I guess I like Battra a lot, very nice introducing an "evil" Mothra. I love the design of Battra's larva and adult stages. I think the fight underwater while not perfect in interesting and new for the Godzilla series. And I guess that's about all I like about it.

The adult and even larva Mothra are an embarrassment. I mean seriously they couldn't get the larva stage to move better than that! And the adult is such a plush you want to hug it and squeeze it, not watch it fight.

Why oh why did they change the sound effect for Godzilla's breath? It's horrific!!!!! Heck why is he even in this movie. Would have been a better script without him!

And the film's "bad guys" are frankly annoying. Even if he does a 180, I wanted to punch Andoh in the face. Something about him just annoyed me to death. The acting overall is just incredibly juvenile. I guess after 3 dark and serious films (ok so maybe GvsKG was campy but still) they had to decide to go this flowery route and the film suffers for it. Not even just a little, it suffers hard. :-(

Such a disappointment for my favorite bug, and yes Imago Mothra looks and acts better in Rebirth of Mothra 1 than in this. The final fight is a snooze fest.

Sad :-(
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Alpha OTS » Thu May 08, 2014 10:12 pm

Just finished watching the bluray. I don't hate this movie. That said, I'm still not a Heisei fan either.

I like that the movie tells a coherent story and the character motivations are pretty clear, especially after the huge Emmy plot hole that still bothers me in GvKG. The problem is that while the plot is more logical, the pacing sucks. We've heard it discussed before, these plot elements have been done before and done better.

The final battle is boring and epitomes what I dislike about Heisei in general. The effects feel subpar, and the kaiju world feels way too much like its on a small studio set. The wire work doesn't do enough to make the winged kaiju feel alive. Again, this has been done before and done better.

That said, each time I watch this I like Battra more. He's clearly the best thing in this movie, probably the best thing to happen in Heisei in general, and there's some great sequences when he does his initial rampaging and then the subsequent battle with G in the ocean. Leaving larva form is unfortunately the worst thing to happen to his screen presence.

GvKG definitely has an energy and pace that this movie lacks, and the final battle there is *much* more satisfying. Although again, like GvKG, the bluray experience here is definitely better than the dvd. So an improvement, but still my least favorite Mothra appearance in a G movie.

Btw, while I am disappointed that GvKG and G&M:BFE share the same menus, I do like the disk art.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby XvGojira » Sat May 10, 2014 11:33 pm

I think the servers glitched or something when I posted here last and ate my post.

Anyway, I watched this the other day and I had a good time watching the dub. Oh sure it's bad and I'm sure it'll be low on my re-watch list, but I had fun with it this time around.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:40 am

This rancid pile of feces is INSUFFERABLE. I now own it, because it came in the two-pack with the infinitely superior Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, but UGH....it's entirely possible that I never watch this movie again.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Jorzilla » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:59 pm

If any of you can get your hands on a copy of Japan's favorite Mon-Star, Steve Ryfle hilariously rips this movie apart. I was grinning ear to ear the entire time I read it. He also brings up points that I hadn't even considered but are definitely issues with this film.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby lhb412 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:05 pm

Random thing I thought was actually good: the radically different clothing each person wheres when they go to explore Infant Island. It does a nice job of communicating each character in a visual way. Cleverest thing in the film.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:12 pm

I think my favorite part of this movie is Battra and specifically his larva. I liked the fight between the Battra larva and Godzilla. I also like Mothra and Battra shooting lasers at each other, but damn they just cannot be portrayed as fliers. The sfx work is just so shoddy. And that makes me sad because I really liked Koichi Kawakita's sfx work in vs Biollante, Sayonara Jupiter (THE saving grace of the movie. The rest was a pretty big turd), and I think his best were the World War II movies he worked on.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Gentleman » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:40 pm

davezilla wrote:Why oh why did they change the sound effect for Godzilla's breath? It's horrific!!!!! Heck why is he even in this movie. Would have been a better script without him!


It's my opinion that Godzilla was never meant to be. Take him out and you have a passable script for a new Mothra solo movie. I've always believed that Toho drew an old, discarded Mothra script from the scrap pile and simply wrote Godzilla into it.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:22 pm

This script should have been discarded. As well as the actors. And suits. And well...pretty much everything.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby XvGojira » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:31 pm

Gentleman wrote:
davezilla wrote:Why oh why did they change the sound effect for Godzilla's breath? It's horrific!!!!! Heck why is he even in this movie. Would have been a better script without him!


It's my opinion that Godzilla was never meant to be. Take him out and you have a passable script for a new Mothra solo movie. I've always believed that Toho drew an old, discarded Mothra script from the scrap pile and simply wrote Godzilla into it.


Wasn't the original script supposed to be Mothra vs Bagan? I remember something like that anyways.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:54 am

Gentleman wrote:
davezilla wrote:Why oh why did they change the sound effect for Godzilla's breath? It's horrific!!!!! Heck why is he even in this movie. Would have been a better script without him!


It's my opinion that Godzilla was never meant to be. Take him out and you have a passable script for a new Mothra solo movie. I've always believed that Toho drew an old, discarded Mothra script from the scrap pile and simply wrote Godzilla into it.


They did actually. This movie started out as Mothra vs Bagan, and a lot of the design and story concepts of Bagan were worked into Battra
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:15 pm

I watched this tonight.

I....liked it. I don't really know how that happened.

Actually, I do.

I really dig Battra and I really like the slightly revamped Godzilla suit. He has a slightly slimmer face and it's ferocious. Granted, some of the SPFX are awful and the daylight sets are really bad, but the stuff at night works extremely well and I was entertained by the fights. This was not simply a beam fest - the fights had a little substance/grappling to them.

The story...well that is where this movie suffers. The Indiana Jones rip off scenes are insufferable, but somehow by the end of the film I looked past all of that because I enjoyed how Godzilla was portrayed.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:14 am

You're a terrible person.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:30 pm

I've tried watching this movie 2 or 3 times in the last year, and I just end up finding things I hate about it more. Good on you for finding enjoyment in it, but this is my least favorite Godzilla movie ever.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:18 pm

Jorzilla wrote:I've tried watching this movie 2 or 3 times in the last year, and I just end up finding things I hate about it more. Good on you for finding enjoyment in it, but this is my least favorite Godzilla movie ever.


Full disclosure - I went in knowing how much I usually hated it before (and like you I considered it my least favorite G film) but I also had my 9 month old son sitting in my lap and he kept me entertained through all the stuff I loathe about this movie. I was distracted.

But the stuff that worked - the night fights and the new Godzilla suit - was enjoyable for me. The bad stuff - the story, the Indiana Jones garbage, and the awful Mothra props and Daylight scenes are all still very bad.

I need to rewatch SpaceGodzilla now just to compare, but I think this may have slid up a spot from last to second to last.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby kiryugoji04 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:54 am

jellydonut25 wrote:This script should have been discarded. As well as the actors. And suits. And well...pretty much everything.


The romantic leads, Tetsuya Bessho and Satomi Kobayashi, are both actually really good actors, they just have nothing to work with and/or they may have been pretty green at the time. Bessho did a great job as the lead of Ultraman the Next in 2004 and Kobayashi starred in a 2006 film called Seagull Diner that is absolutely wonderful.

Okawara is just a terrible director. And Omori is a terrible screenwriter. And basically everything else was terrible.

But I do really like those two actors.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Rody » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:01 pm

This movie is the worst. Seriously, it's a blatant rehash of Mothra but with extra monsters for more fight scenes. And the effects are inexcusable. It pains me that this was one of the most successful Godzilla movies.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Dr Kain » Wed May 06, 2015 1:11 am

Are we sure this movie even had an actual script? It seems more like they just took a rejected draft of the 1964 script and threw Battra in just to make it different than anything else. I'm going to be filming my review for this one tomorrow and I have very little nice things to say about it. Ick, almost as bad as Megalon and Revenge.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby XvGojira » Wed May 06, 2015 1:51 am

Dr Kain wrote:Are we sure this movie even had an actual script? It seems more like they just took a rejected draft of the 1964 script and threw Battra in just to make it different than anything else. I'm going to be filming my review for this one tomorrow and I have very little nice things to say about it. Ick, almost as bad as Megalon and Revenge.


If I recall didn't it start out as a Mothra centric movie and they basically replaced Bagan with Godzilla?
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby DannyBeane » Wed May 06, 2015 2:48 am

XvGojira wrote:If I recall didn't it start out as a Mothra centric movie and they basically replaced Bagan with Godzilla?
That sounds about right. I know Bagan was supposed to make his debut in a Mothra movie. But yes this film is 95% garbage. (The 5% that isn't garbage consists of the Battra Larva) Everything else about this movie is a turd.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Gman2887 » Wed May 06, 2015 3:30 am

I've heard rumors Omori didn't even finish the script for this film before it started filming. It's led to some discussions about Omori having a "falling out" of some kind and Okawara was replacement director. No idea how much of this is actually true. It does seem odd that Omori would write, but not direct after the last two films.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby daikaijusaurus » Thu May 07, 2015 4:37 pm

Here is some background information on how Godzilla vs Mothra came to be. Apparently, this movie started as Mothra Vs Bagan, became Godzilla Vs Gigamoth and eventually Godzilla Vs Mothra.

After Mothra vs. Bagan had long been canceled and Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991) was wrapping up production, work began on Godzilla vs. Gigamoth, sometimes referred to as Mothra vs. Gigamoth.

Koichi Kawakita and Minoru Yoshida wrote the early script for the film and submitted it in 1991. Toho wasn't satisfied with the treatment, though, and the project was eventually scrapped. The company tried other attempts, dead set on creating a film pitting Godzilla and Mothra against each other. The next draft, written by Wataru Mimura, retitled the project Godzilla vs. Mothra and was submitted that same year in 1991. This too was scrapped as Godzilla vs. Biollante (1989) writer Kazuki Omori was brought in, creating Godzilla vs. Mothra from his Mothra vs. Bagan script before finally adding in the Battra character in a later draft and ending up with the final product: Godzilla vs. Mothra (1992). In the end, this concept contributed very little to the final movie beyond Gigamoth being a similar idea to Battra.

In terms of the Godzilla vs. Gigamoth concept, several questions do arise. The foremost being why Mana didn't stop Murakami from completing his bacteria, especially since she was willing to sacrifice Mothra to stop the effect? It should also be mentioned that the DAG-MB96, although not with that name of course, were originally going to appear in this project before later appearing in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995).

Source: http://www.tohokingdom.com/cutting_room/godzilla_vs_gigamoth.htm


Personally, I think the concept behind Godzilla Vs Gigamoth would've been a lot more interesting had it been made instead of Godzilla Vs Mothra. But I guess Toho felt Mothra was a lot more profitable than Gigamoth, which turned out to be true since Godzilla vs Mothra was the highest grossing Hesei Godzilla movie.

For more info on Godzilla Vs Gigamoth, visit the above source link. And here are some concept art of Gigamoth:

http://www.tohokingdom.com/cutting_room/gigamoth.htm
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Fri May 08, 2015 10:27 am

I think my only favorite part of this movie is Battra. Much like Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla, I like the Spacegodzilla and MOGERA kaiju, but the stories...eh.

Mothra vs Bagan would probably have been a better feature just based on how enthusiastic they were for it, and how they had everything done for before the movie was shot down.

Thanks for your share Daikaijusaurus. I have the Heisei Perfect Collection artbook, but I am not sure the pics you shared are in the book I have.
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Re: TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue May 12, 2015 7:09 pm

I'd love to know if Godzilla and Battra were supposed to fight in a city at some point since I've seen these pics floating around -

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