TALKBACK #19: Godzilla and Mothra, The Battle for Earth

Discuss the 2nd Godzilla film era here! Beam fights, revised versions of classic kaiju, the Heisei era was a mixed bag of fun and controversy!

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Postby The Real McCoy » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:14 pm

After seeing how they handled Mothra in previous films up to this point, it's hard to forgive the fights in this film.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:02 pm

Rodanex wrote:
Bruticus wrote: I miss the Showa days of monster fights, when the monsters actually traded physical blows until somebody died or got mauled/knocked out.


Godzilla does a pretty god job of mauling Battra's neck with his teeth.
About as good of a job as my Godzilla toy did to my plastic Battra's neck.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:24 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
Rodanex wrote:
Bruticus wrote: I miss the Showa days of monster fights, when the monsters actually traded physical blows until somebody died or got mauled/knocked out.


Godzilla does a pretty god job of mauling Battra's neck with his teeth.
About as good of a job as my Godzilla toy did to my plastic Battra's neck.


I always loved how there was no real contact, but there was blood everywhere.
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Postby The Real McCoy » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:47 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:I always loved how there was no real contact, but there was blood everywhere.

Yeah really. The camera pulls away, and in the next shot, Battra's neck is soaked in yellow goo.
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Postby Dr Kain » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:10 am

I gotta say this movie is great. Having Battra be an evil (sort of) Mothra was a neat idea and he was really cool looking. The effects were almost as good as Biollante's (the night battle scenes really make them superb) and the soundtrack continues to rock. My only complaint is how flat the human characters are. This movie really seemed like they were there just because Toho had to put humans into the movie. They are boring and really do nothing to advance the plot one bit. It isn't just the main trio though, even the secondary characters of the movie felt pointless. Still, it is great to see Mothra done in a more modern era (when the 90s were modern) again.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:00 am

Dr Kain wrote:I gotta say this movie is great. Having Battra be an evil (sort of) Mothra was a neat idea and he was really cool looking. The effects were almost as good as Biollante's (the night battle scenes really make them superb) and the soundtrack continues to rock. My only complaint is how flat the human characters are. This movie really seemed like they were there just because Toho had to put humans into the movie. They are boring and really do nothing to advance the plot one bit. It isn't just the main trio though, even the secondary characters of the movie felt pointless. Still, it is great to see Mothra done in a more modern era (when the 90s were modern) again.


I LOVE Battra, so I like this movie more than most, but the glacial pacing, "beam-Mothra," and the over the top (and seemingly random at times) environmental stuff is what really brings this movie down. I even like the human characters. But yeah, the previously mentioned problems REALLY hurt this one. But Battra will always be one of my favorites, and I honestly wish they would have brought him back in future films.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:06 am

Yeah, Battra is cool looking and is a decent addition to Mothra's mythology, but the movie he appears in is just terrible. I will say, aside from the terrible places it went I did like some of the stuff they did early on with Battra in the Kingdom of Monster comic.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:21 am

I forgot to mention Akira Takarada's amazing role as... some guy... who stands there... what a waste of a true veteran of our genre! Say what you want about Final Wars, but at least Kitamura gave Takarada an awesome role that allowed him to have fun!!
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:29 am

MouthForWar wrote:I forgot to mention Akira Takarada's amazing role as... some guy... who stands there... what a waste of a true veteran of our genre! Say what you want about Final Wars, but at least Kitamura gave Takarada an awesome role that allowed him to have fun!!


He also got to use laser guns, which is always cool. The Heisei series can pretty much be described as a series of wasted resources.
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Postby Dr Kain » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:59 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:Yeah, Battra is cool looking and is a decent addition to Mothra's mythology, but the movie he appears in is just terrible. I will say, aside from the terrible places it went I did like some of the stuff they did early on with Battra in the Kingdom of Monster comic.


It is still far better than the majority of the Showa stuff. Sorry, but there are only a handful of Showa movies that can contend with the entire Heisei series. The effects (both visual and audio), the monsters, and designs are just vastly superior.

Do not take that as I hate the Showa series, because the Showa series was a great achievement at the time, but Godzilla is one of those series that clearly shows the newer the better. Just like how the Millennium series pretty much trumps the Heisei series in effects, the Heisei series trumps the Showa series.
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Postby Goji 84 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm

No, it's not that cut and dry.

Kain, you are truly something else..
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:33 pm

Dr Kain wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:Yeah, Battra is cool looking and is a decent addition to Mothra's mythology, but the movie he appears in is just terrible. I will say, aside from the terrible places it went I did like some of the stuff they did early on with Battra in the Kingdom of Monster comic.


It is still far better than the majority of the Showa stuff. Sorry, but there are only a handful of Showa movies that can contend with the entire Heisei series. The effects (both visual and audio), the monsters, and designs are just vastly superior.


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Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:11 pm

This movie is awful and is the epitome of everything wrong with the Heisei series.
It's obnoxious, it makes no sense, people stand around staring at a TV for half the time, the human characters are given NOTHING important to do (except stand around and comment about how pretty Mothra is and how mean and nasty Godzilla is), and it is B-O-R-I-N-G.

I really don't know how anybody can watch this movie and say it blows the Showa films out of the water...Mothra looks 34.9763 times worse here than she ever did during the Showa era, BOTH in larval form and in Imago form (although ESPECIALLY in Imago form), and Godzilla looks laughably bad during his fight scene with Mothra on the water. The beam noise is atrocious, and any attempt at physical fighting between the monsters (which is limited) looks like a 5 year old playing with Bandai toys.

How can you look at this and think the effects work is better? How? I really REALLY don't get it...I can't even attribute it to Kain being "weird" either. It's just the flat-out WRONG thing to think or say. WRONG WRONG WRONG.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:12 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:This movie is awful and is the epitome of everything wrong with the Heisei series.


*highfives*
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Postby Gojilove » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:31 pm

This movie is borderline unwatchable.
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Postby Legion » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:53 pm

So much of this thread is full of people (RIGHTLY) saying just how terrible this movie is (at least Space Godzilla is entertainingly bad) and then out of the blue we get Kain not only saying it's better than most of the Showa series, but the entire Heisei series is better than the Showa series. And then he says the entire Millennium series is better than either series that came before it.

Kain is wrong. Opinions CAN be wrong. And Kain's opinion is wrong.
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Postby Mac » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:02 pm

I'll agree with Kain to the extent that this film is better than the Heisei films that followed. It's better paced and I can think of a few money shots. It's the epitome of Heisei though, I can look back at Mothra and Mothra vs Godzilla and see just how far the series has fallen.
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Postby Tyler E. Martin » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:28 pm

As usual, Kain's remarks are simply mind-boggling. Have we even touched on the quality of the screenplays? The scripts for the Showa films may not have been Shakespeare-caliber, but on the whole, they were pretty lively and nicely put-together. There was always some heart and soul involved in virtually every aspect of the productions. Once the series reached the '90s, however, there was nothing of the sort. There were lots of cool ideas that ended up going nowhere and mostly surrounded by characters and plotlines that are comparatively...well, awful. They're very poorly conceived and executed. There is FAR less creative energy and effort there, and it shows...a lot. There is absolutely no valid argument, aside from perhaps the level of enjoyment one gets on a purely subjective level, to support the Heisei films as being superior to the Showa in any conceivable way.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:23 pm

Eh, I don't think what followed was worse than this. I really find this film to be the low point of the series. Mainly because I think SpaceGodzilla has some mild entertainment value.
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Postby Benjamin Haines » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:25 pm

Guys, you don't get it. Godzilla vs. Mothra's special effects are flashy. Really flashy. And explosive. Colorful, flashy and explosive. With lots of glitter.

The Showa films just don't stack up.


Yeah.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:40 pm

A bit off topic, but in reference to a couple previous posts, I'd like to know where this "Space Godzilla is at least entertainingly bad" theory came from. Aside from that dumb scene of the crystals coming through the space ship, there's nothing "entertainingly" bad about it... just bad. And boring... even more boring than Mothra. Troll 2, Space Godzilla is not.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:46 pm

MouthForWar wrote:Troll 2, Space Godzilla is not.


Thank god. I'd watch SpaceGodzilla a thousand times in a row before I'd watch Troll 2 again. I'm entertained mostly by a lot of what's going on in the film (The notion of a SpaceGodzilla/Mogeura's update/The island/Idiotic Yakuza-ness). None of them mesh AT ALL, but I have more fun watching that than Godzilla vs Mothra.
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Postby Andrew Nguyen » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:51 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:Eh, I don't think what followed was worse than this. I really find this film to be the low point of the series. Mainly because I think SpaceGodzilla has some mild entertainment value.


As much as Space-Godzilla is one of the lesser Godzilla films, I'd rather take that than Godzilla vs Mothra 92. And you can quote me on that.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:58 pm

Andrew Nguyen wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:Eh, I don't think what followed was worse than this. I really find this film to be the low point of the series. Mainly because I think SpaceGodzilla has some mild entertainment value.


As much as Space-Godzilla is one of the lesser Godzilla films, I'd rather take that than Godzilla vs Mothra 92.


I wholeheartedly agree.
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Postby briizilla » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:20 am

Dr Kain wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:Yeah, Battra is cool looking and is a decent addition to Mothra's mythology, but the movie he appears in is just terrible. I will say, aside from the terrible places it went I did like some of the stuff they did early on with Battra in the Kingdom of Monster comic.


It is still far better than the majority of the Showa stuff. Sorry, but there are only a handful of Showa movies that can contend with the entire Heisei series. The effects (both visual and audio), the monsters, and designs are just vastly superior.



Are you freaking insane?

The Showa Mothra marionette is infinitely better than the stiff one used in this movie. She also didn't need to fire beams from every orifice to contend with Godzilla. Look at the fight in the '62 movie between the two. It's physical and well done and blows the doors off any of the battles in the heisei version. Battra looks totally fake and plastic. You're honestly going to tell me the story for this movie is in any way shape or form better than kk vs g,the original Mothra and g vs Mothra, 3 films it shamelessly rips off? The Indiana jones ripoff guy is a better written character than any of the main characters from those movies? The score is better?

If you honestly think any of that is true you either feel like you need to take a contrary opinion on whatever is popular to get attention or you have appallingly bad taste.
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