TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby walshiam » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:29 pm

Godzilla in a battle with a giant rose bush never struck me as a gripping story.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Gman2887 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:22 am

walshiam wrote:Godzilla in a battle with a giant rose bush never struck me as a gripping story.


One might say it's a good thing that's not the story, but rather something that happens within a gripping story.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Russzilla » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:10 am

Gman2887 wrote:
walshiam wrote:Godzilla in a battle with a giant rose bush never struck me as a gripping story.


One might say it's a good thing that's not the story, but rather something that happens within a gripping story.

I also like it because it was something fresh, new, and different. Instead of just rehashing Godzilla's old kaiju foes, we got something kind of different.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby H-Man » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:30 pm

walshiam wrote:Godzilla in a battle with a giant rose bush never struck me as a gripping story.


But that's what's so Japanese about this movie, Godzilla isn't just battling a giant rose. Biollante is a lot more than that. So is the film itself.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby walshiam » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:11 am

It seems like Biollante was never at any time a real threat to Godzilla. the challenge was weak and so was the battle. That's why it always puts me to sleep.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby lhb412 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:46 pm

See, I feel like the battle between the two isn't the emphasis if the film, so the one-sidedness isn't a problem for me. It's a Godzilla vs. the world movie, like it's immediate predecessor.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby walshiam » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:41 pm

And yet these films are categorically referred to as "Science Fiction Action" pictures. This one, in particular, could make a viewer wonder "were's the action?" Monsters beating the hell out of one another is preferable to watching a lopsided standoff where only a few tickle me moments and Godzilla's breath is the extent of the battle.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby lhb412 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:47 pm

I feel the threat of Godzilla and mounting the several attempts to stop him provided enough drama.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:14 pm

walshiam wrote:And yet these films are categorically referred to as "Science Fiction Action" pictures. This one, in particular, could make a viewer wonder "were's the action?" Monsters beating the hell out of one another is preferable to watching a lopsided standoff where only a few tickle me moments and Godzilla's breath is the extent of the battle.


Huh? Biollante put holes in Godzilla's hand and shoulder. She bit his head and doused him in acid. She was also the reason the ANEB kicked in finally (plus the military campaign before their fight). Godzilla gets the better attacks in, but it's not one sided.

lhb412 wrote:See, I feel like the battle between the two isn't the emphasis if the film, so the one-sidedness isn't a problem for me. It's a Godzilla vs. the world movie, like it's immediate predecessor.


A pretty fair assessment. I really dig the creative approach to dealing with Godzilla in this film. They reuse the idea of Super X, but add the ANEB and then the TC system that raises his temperature. I always loved the Showa series' approach to dealing with Godzilla - the early films had really cool ideas (electric nets, fire pits, solar flares, etc). Biollante does the same.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Russzilla » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:28 am

Cody Himes wrote:
walshiam wrote:Godzilla in a battle with a giant rose bush never struck me as a gripping story.


But that's what's so Japanese about this movie, Godzilla isn't just battling a giant rose. Biollante is a lot more than that. So is the film itself.

Godzilla battles a monster that was created from his cells, the military coming up with ways to stop or slow down Godzilla, (which to me is the highlight of the movie, the Godzilla bacteria) etc. I wasn't dissapointed.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Russzilla » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:32 am

Hybrid Gojira wrote:
walshiam wrote:And yet these films are categorically referred to as "Science Fiction Action" pictures. This one, in particular, could make a viewer wonder "were's the action?" Monsters beating the hell out of one another is preferable to watching a lopsided standoff where only a few tickle me moments and Godzilla's breath is the extent of the battle.


Huh? Biollante put holes in Godzilla's hand and shoulder. She bit his head and doused him in acid. She was also the reason the ANEB kicked in finally (plus the military campaign before their fight). Godzilla gets the better attacks in, but it's not one sided.

lhb412 wrote:See, I feel like the battle between the two isn't the emphasis if the film, so the one-sidedness isn't a problem for me. It's a Godzilla vs. the world movie, like it's immediate predecessor.


A pretty fair assessment. I really dig the creative approach to dealing with Godzilla in this film. They reuse the idea of Super X, but add the ANEB and then the TC system that raises his temperature. I always loved the Showa series' approach to dealing with Godzilla - the early films had really cool ideas (electric nets, fire pits, solar flares, etc). Biollante does the same.

^^This.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:12 pm

Mac wrote:There are still 40+ year olds who revere the original, sure, but no one cares about that marginal market. The target demo in Japan for this next Godzilla film doesn't give a "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" about the old Showa films, and is more likely to have some fondness for this weird, off-kilter film that came out in the 80s.



I agree with Mac here. First, I too found that the article was a little dismissive of current fan realities. There's a schism in fandom and I do think that older fans kind of have their head in the ground with how the younger fans, those who grew up in the 90s and later, feel about these films and that goes for both sides of the Pacific.

If you visit places like the TK forum...a place that has a much younger demographic, you'll see kind of what I'm talking about here. There are a lot more Hesei and Millinium era fans out there that are buying the figures and talking about the films than the old fan guard who adores the Showa era above all else.

I think this is best summarized by just looking at the board numbers of TK vs. a place like here...known for it's community of older fans.

Personally, I love the Showa era AND the Heisei era but I could give two craps about the Millenium series as a whole. Biollante is one of my favorite Godzilla films of all time and has been even since I saw it on VHS as a kid.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby kiryugoji04 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:46 am

DannyBeane wrote:
lhb412 wrote:I'd put it in the top ten - but number one? I don't know what they're smoking.

Especially considering Godzilla vs Gigan is obviously the number one Godzilla film.


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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Dr Kain » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:11 am

I definitely think this movie is one of the best Godzilla films, but it is most certainly not THE best.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jared » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:18 am

Dr Kain wrote:I definitely think this movie is one of the best Godzilla films, but it is most certainly not THE best.

No, definitely not. The awkward pacing, clumsy editing and tacked-on score are enough to keep it from top tier status in the franchise, in my opinion.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Dr Kain » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:50 am

Jared wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:I definitely think this movie is one of the best Godzilla films, but it is most certainly not THE best.

No, definitely not. The awkward pacing, clumsy editing and tacked-on score are enough to keep it from top tier status in the franchise, in my opinion.


Tacked on score? I think the music rocks.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:32 pm

Yeah, I love the music in this movie and never understood the hatred for it.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jared » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:00 pm

I agree, most of the music does rock...but about half of it doesn't really fit what's happening on-screen, which isn't a surprise, seeing how the composer had to write the score "blind" without the context of the film's images and editing.

The half of it that does happen to fit, though? Great stuff, and it really helps give the film some real atmosphere, much like THE RETURN OF GODZILLA.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:58 am

Jared wrote:I agree, most of the music does rock...but about half of it doesn't really fit what's happening on-screen, which isn't a surprise, seeing how the composer had to write the score "blind" without the context of the film's images and editing.

The half of it that does happen to fit, though? Great stuff, and it really helps give the film some real atmosphere, much like THE RETURN OF GODZILLA.


Are you serious? I did not know he had to write it blind. He did an excellent job then, especially when dealing with the Saradian agent.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:44 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:Yeah, I love the music in this movie and never understood the hatred for it.


Biollante's score is solid. There are a few pieces that are kinda odd...but I mostly enjoy them. I even like the over the top 80's electric guitar version of Ifukube's Godzilla theme...it's one of those "so bad, it's good" kinda things.

Still, I love this movie - one of my favorites.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Gman2887 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:38 am

Dr Kain wrote:Are you serious? I did not know he had to write it blind. He did an excellent job then, especially when dealing with the Saradian agent.


"There's nothing that I've found in any of the CDs that talks in much detail about how much time he had to do it, but he did it without having seen any footage. After he composed it he turned it over to the arranger, David Howell, who actually ended up recording it.
So many of the problems I see with this thing is it was recorded quickly and without much reference of what was in the film."

- Ed Godziszewski
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jared » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:46 pm

I love that Scified interview with Ed Godziszewski, it's the closest thing we'll get to his unreleased audio commentary. The film's problems (especially the technical ones) are a lot more understandable when one realizes how rushed the entire production was. It's kind of amazing the film turned out as good as it did, under those circumstances. It has the best monster-related effects of the era, for one...
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby lhb412 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:15 am

^The mind boggles at the fact that this film has the most polished visuals of the era and yet was such a rushed production.

I just don't understand it!
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:35 pm

Maybe because it was rushed, they didn't have a lot of time to do expensive money shots that ended up looking bad despite probably being expensive? That's to say, this film features a lot of miniature work, but not a lot of rotoscoped destruction of the later Heisei era. Kawakita wasn't going around getting B-Roll of Hong Kong that just happened to show people casually strolling through the streets. I'd say the effects in Biollante look good specifically because they were constrained to what they can pull off traditionally:

- No panning shots to blue screen/rotoscope work.
- Lots of miniatures a larger scale than the other 90s films.
- Focus on puppetry and suit effects.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby klen7 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:09 pm

Flipping through the storyboards for Godzilla vs Biollante in the Godzilla Chronicle book, i came across this sequence in which Godzilla rips Biollante out by her roots and throws her into a city, then Biollante returns the favor

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