TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:57 pm

lhb412 wrote:
Benjamin Haines wrote: The second through fourth choices (G'54, Destroyer, and Mothra vs. Godzilla) are also widely cited as favorites on this side of the world.


I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.


I feel like both Destroy All Monsters and Godzilla vs. Destroyer are put up on a pedestal by the fandom more for the circumstances surrounding their release than the quality of the films themselves. DAM is historically described as 'the ultimate monster mash' even though it's one of Honda's flatter stories, and Destroyer has been coasting on the tragedy of Godzilla's meltdown and the dramatic uniqueness of his burning form to be known as 'one of the greatest Godzilla movies of all time' even though it's a really lazy and disjointed film.

Here's an image I've seen shared many times among non-Godzilla-oriented online communities: http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1 ... 444943.jpg
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:47 am

I personally don't see anything WRONG with not voting the original as the number one favorite.

I mean, it's a GREAT movie...but if I'm sitting down to watch a random Godzilla movie, it's probably not what I grab. It's great, but it's not really fun.


As to Destoroyah and such...I think one thing far too many kaiju fans do is look at JUST the surface of the film...and listen, you do KINDA need to do that from time to time to enjoy these goofy movies, but fans do things like look at Destoroyah's design and argue that because he LOOKS cool, he's badass and powerful and awesome, or that because Godzilla's meltdown itself is emotional, the whole movie is a powerful film, or that because there are references to the original film it's a brilliant movie.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Dr Kain » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:50 am

My ordering goes GMK, 54 (this IS the best though), Biollante, Mothra vs, and Mecha93.

I don't have any problem with Destoroyah on that list. We have had this debate many times, but it is definitely in my top 10 list, if not #5 or #6.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby DannyBeane » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:16 am

lhb412 wrote:I'd put it in the top ten - but number one? I don't know what they're smoking.

Especially considering Godzilla vs Gigan is obviously the number one Godzilla film.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby daikaijusaurus » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:04 pm

DannyBeane wrote:Especially considering Godzilla vs Gigan is obviously the number one Godzilla film.


Heck no! Godzilla Vs Monster Zero is the best Godzilla movie hands down :lol:

Maybe even the best movie ever made in the history of man-kind! :mrgreen:

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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby MekaGojira3k » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:04 am

That graphic only suggests considering MZ.
It is wrong.

And as for G vs. Biollante being number one, they could have picked a LOT worse.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Legion » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:34 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:
Here's an image I've seen shared many times among non-Godzilla-oriented online communities: http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1 ... 444943.jpg


What the hell is that crap? Sea Monster and Son of Godzilla are on the "can be skipped"list and the later is called "sh!t"? How old was the person who wrote this? 12?
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jorzilla » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:54 am

I've seen a lot of fall out from the announcement of Mothra, Rodan and King Ghidorah returning in the Legendary series. A lot of people tend to turn to either Biollante or Gigan as the monster that they REALLY wanted to see in a new film.


The one thing that generally bothers me about those types of opinions, is that when tasked to think of a plausible situation is that they generally default to the simple genetic engineering origin or something along the lines of Godzilla's blood infecting a plant. Essentially they completely bowl offer the human aspect of Biollante, both the spirit element (which I personally think can be axed), but more importantly the grief of Dr. Shiragami who used Godzilla cells to create a monster to save his daughter's image. That tragedy is a HUUUUGE part of what makes Biollante interesting as a monster. This is something I would definitely liked to be preserved in any sort of remake of this film. However, most fan fiction/theories tend to approach Biollante as a simple problem of "how can I mate a plant with Godzilla and then have them fight each other?" I think this is fundamentally wrong...the origin of the monster is completely integral to the entire plot and drama of the film. Simply put: It is probably a monster that would be damn hard to actually re-use outside of this one instance in cinema.


This is something I've generally felt about the IDW comics, which are restricted to NOT showing monster origins. Biollante and Destroyah (to a lesser extent) are always the monsters that come across as strange to see randomly in the middle of a comic series.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Gojira-2000 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:04 pm

You could use Biollante and still keep the basic premise of involving Shiragami and his daughter in there. Biollante could be created as a sort of GM crop that is designed to absorb incredible amounts of CO2 emissions. The reason for Dr. Shiragami to risk this is because of his daughter Erika's death due CO2 related health issues. In his research Shiragami found monster DNA* (not necessarily Godzilla's) that could help create such a plant that could deal with this worldwide issue. Unfortunately the plant horribly mutates, and much like GM crop fears in recent years, cross-pollinates with other non-GM crops and plants, mutating them in the process and creating the potential for a world filled with giant monster plants.

* I'd say a new monster/MUTO, one that survived initially after the mass extinction that resulted in most of the other monsters dying out, or going into hiding. This monster would've adapted to the massive amounts of atmospheric CO2 found during that period, and why it's a good candidate for Dr. Shiragami's work.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jorzilla » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:28 pm

So on a different note.

I was thinking about this today; Isn't Godzilla vs. Biollante the first Godzilla film that has a main character from the military? The Showa films always had military types, but the people in the human story were generally scientists, policemen, reporters, spacemen, etc. Godzilla vs. Biollante has 3 characters that are essentially branches of the military:

Lt. Gondo

Sho Kuroki

Miki Sagueusa (sort of, definitely in later pictures)
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby XvGojira » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:15 am

Jorzilla wrote:So on a different note.

I was thinking about this today; Isn't Godzilla vs. Biollante the first Godzilla film that has a main character from the military? The Showa films always had military types, but the people in the human story were generally scientists, policemen, reporters, spacemen, etc. Godzilla vs. Biollante has 3 characters that are essentially branches of the military:

Lt. Gondo

Sho Kuroki

Miki Sagueusa (sort of, definitely in later pictures)


I'm pretty sure that's right. Most of the Showa stuff are like reporters, detectives, inventors, scientists.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:33 am

Do you count astronauts Glenn or Fuji as military? How about Akira Kubo in Destroy All Monsters?
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby klen7 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:51 am

i think they fit under XvGojira's "spacemen" category.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Pkmatrix » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:06 pm

I think you're right, XvGojira. Before this, besides the astronauts the closest we got was Godzilla Raids Again, where the main characters were ex-military and towards the end they introduced the JASDF pilots.

jellydonut25 wrote:Do you count astronauts Glenn or Fuji as military? How about Akira Kubo in Destroy All Monsters?


No, I don't think so. They're astronauts, which isn't quite the same thing. In Monster Zero at least, they're clearly civilians and scientists.

- - -

I just finished a G85/Biollante double feature (which was AWESOME, BTW) and just noticed something I never had before! :shock:

Like everyone else, I always thought it was a little odd how abruptly the final fight ends: Godzilla seems to be just gaining the advantage again, then suddenly breaks away and collapses onto the beach. During this viewing, though, I noticed something I hadn't before: the lights that flash right before this. Between Godzilla blasting Biollante and his stumbling away, the movie cuts to Miki who seems confused (in the dub she says, "What's happening?"). When it cuts back to Godzilla and Biollante, we see flashes of red and white light that seem to emanate from Biollante. It's after that that Godzilla appears to get disoriented, stumble away, and collapse.

Why is this important? Well, do you recall the only other time in the film when red and white lights flash? That would be during the psychic duel between Miki and Godzilla. In response to Miki's challenge, Godzilla pushes back with a psychic attack of his own that's visually represented when he flashes red and white. Even earlier in the film, it's already established that Biollante has some sort of ESP (thus how Miki is able to sense Erika's soul within her).

I now think what happened, but we all missed, is that Biollante's final act - after getting blasted by Godzilla - was to launch a psychic attack. An attack that worked. LIke Miki earlier, the combination of Biollante's psychic attack and the effects of the ANEB are what caused him to collapse, not just the ANEB alone.

A lot of us like to think of this fight as ending in a tie, but if I'm right I think this would mean a pretty clear-cut victory for Biollante. She would have, after all, dealt the last blow of the fight.

Thoughts?
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:53 am

I need to watch it again, but that seems reasonable. I APPROVE (like that matters).
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby DannyBeane » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:57 am

Makes sense. Considering Miki's attack knocked her out, and Biollante is about a billion times larger than her it makes sense that a psychic attack from her would be more effective. I must watch Biollante again to confirm.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Benjamin Haines » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:23 am

I think it makes sense that Biollante used a psychic attack against Godzilla in that scene but I don't think that qualifies the battle as a victory for her. She still disintegrated and died, whether that was the result of the damage Godzilla dealt or a kamikaze effect of her psychic attack. That's a draw.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:54 am

I just finished watching this. GvsBiollante was always my favorite as a kid, and it holds up well after repeat viewings. Tonight was no exception.

This was the first time I watched the Echo abridge DVD, and for the most part it's a billion times better than the dub (with the exceptions being anytime anyone in this movie speaks English - yikes! It's literally almost impossible to understand). This incarnation of Godzilla is probably my favorite. He is ferocious, his roar is powerful, and he fights with tenacity. Godzilla shoots numerous beams in this film, but there's a nice dynamic between that and Biollante's plethora of vines when they fight. The characters in this film are mostly fleshed out and all seem to serve a purpose. I think more could have been done with Miki, but there is a lot going on in this film and the characters are enjoyable for me. Gondo is great and serves as a needed comedic relief since the majority of the film is handled with such a serious tone. Shiragami plays the "mad scientist" well. His love for his daughter blinds him, but in the end he realizes his mistake. Okouchi, on the other hand, is only concerned with what can be gained from the Godzilla cells. It is a stark contrast between political gain and scientific advancement, all the while the morality of it all and what it means for mankind is coming into question. By the end of the film we hear Shiragami's take - "men are the real monsters" because we created Godzilla and Biollante. GvsB plays out in a real world setting - if there were Godzilla cells and ANEB/weapons/new forms of food (grain is mentioned) could be made, then every country/corporation would probably be scrambling for the G-cells.

It's unfortunate that this outing represents the height of Kawakita's effects in the series, at least for me. Biollante is easily one of the coolest kaiju ever conceived and is truly terrifying. Her presence on screen matches Godzilla's own. The rain scenes, the fights, the military battles - all are epic in this film. I was never bored. Godzilla looks great as well and he seems like a living creature rather than a man in suit for the majority of the action sequences. I really can't say enough about the film. My wife even liked it.

I'd rank this film in my top 3.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Rody » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:13 pm

When Roses Attack: 25 Years of Godzilla vs. Biollante with Ed Godziszewski

Here's a great article that covers some of the details we might have heard in the Echo Bridge commentary.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:07 pm

That was a great read!
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Psycho Soldier » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:34 pm

One category was Godzilla being used as a weapon controlled by a third party, of which there were several different “third parties” to consider. One was a mad scientist, another was aliens, one was Godzilla being controlled by America and one even had Hitler involved with controlling Godzilla.


...you know, I can't even comment properly on this bit. I'm just going to leave it here so we can all, uh, "appreciate" it.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby klen7 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:11 pm

^ You think that's zany? I heard there was a script where Godzilla was controlled by the vengeful ghosts of the forgotten.


I did really enjoy that article and wished that i could listen to the commentary more than ever. Very cool.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Psycho Soldier » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:45 pm

klen7 wrote:^ You think that's zany? I heard there was a script where Godzilla was controlled by the vengeful ghosts of the forgotten.


Ghosts > Hitler, though. You heard it here first.
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby DannyBeane » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:59 am

Bruticus wrote:
klen7 wrote:^ You think that's zany? I heard there was a script where Godzilla was controlled by the vengeful ghosts of the forgotten.


Ghosts > Hitler, though. You heard it here first.

What about Godzilla being possessed by a ghost Hitler?
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Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Psycho Soldier » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:14 am

DannyBeane wrote:
Bruticus wrote:
klen7 wrote:^ You think that's zany? I heard there was a script where Godzilla was controlled by the vengeful ghosts of the forgotten.


Ghosts > Hitler, though. You heard it here first.

What about Godzilla being possessed by a ghost Hitler?


Make it the ghost of Mecha-Hitler from Wolfenstein, so then you have MechaHitlerGodzilla. Then let's exorcise Godzilla of Hitler's ghost, which then possesses Mechagodzilla, which could then give us MechaMechaHitlerGodzilla.

Godzilla vs. MechaMechaHitlerGodzilla. Still an easier title to recite than GMK's full one.
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