TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Discuss the 2nd Godzilla film era here! Beam fights, revised versions of classic kaiju, the Heisei era was a mixed bag of fun and controversy!

Moderator: Controllers

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Shokara » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:28 am

Jorzilla wrote:I've watched this movie countless time. Tonight was the first time I noticed the Oxygen Destroyer in Colonel Gondo's office.

Image


I know! The same thing happened to me today, too!
I'm not sure if it's because I simply forgot about it, or I didn't notice it before until seeing the higher quality picture on the BD. :lol:
Shokara
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:03 pm

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Russzilla » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:43 am

Jorzilla wrote:I've watched this movie countless time. Tonight was the first time I noticed the Oxygen Destroyer in Colonel Gondo's office.

Image

Omg. Good eye Jorz. Every time I watch that scene, I'm so fixated on that large scale model of Godzilla, I never noticed the Oxygen Destroyer sitting there.
User avatar
Russzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:31 pm
Location: London, KY via Boston/Philadelphia

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby metal_bryan » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:59 pm

Shokara wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:I've watched this movie countless time. Tonight was the first time I noticed the Oxygen Destroyer in Colonel Gondo's office.

Image


I know! The same thing happened to me today, too!
I'm not sure if it's because I simply forgot about it, or I didn't notice it before until seeing the higher quality picture on the BD. :lol:


It has to be the BD, because I never noticed it before either and I watched the VHS like 100 times. That large-scale figure always seemed to the be focal point of the shot.
User avatar
metal_bryan
Controller
 
Posts: 4249
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:59 am
Location: Florida, USA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby MekaGojira3k » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:04 pm

I saw that all over tumblr. I love how it's just in some office.
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:38 am

What tumbler per chance? I just made that image last night :lol: .

I never noticed because I was always focusing on King Goji and how Gondo would have it in his office despite that movie never taking place in his timeline. I always fantasized about what might have inspired an artist to make an interpretation of Godzilla that looked like that when he'd only been seen twice, 30 years apart.
Image
User avatar
Jorzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:39 am
Location: Seattle

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:50 am

that's crazy. I wonder what other details have gone unnoticed for years...
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18867
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby eabaker » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:56 pm

Shokara wrote:Sorry for kind of bringing a thread back from the dead here. I just watched this movie for the first time in a long time, and I must say that the movie doesn't register for me the same way that it used to. Back in the '90s and early 2000's I loved this movie, because it was the first movie to come out since my early childhood after Godzilla: 1985. However, now the movie feels a bit muddled for me.

It felt like writer and director Kazuki Omori wanted to tell this somewhat tender story about the dangers of irresponsible genetic research, kind of like the dangers of tampering with nuclear energy in the original 1954 Godzilla. To me it seemed like Omori was setting the monster Biollante itself up as kind of a tragic Frankenstein like story. Heck, the scene with Biollante's birth under Dr. Shiragami's microscope even comes with a lightening storm in the background. As Dr. Kain pointed out in his plot summary, Dr. Shiragami wanted to preserve the life of his dead daughter Erika by enfusing her genes with those of the rose flowers she was next to when she died. Then when the Erika infused rosebush was in danger of dying Shiragami spliced Godzilla cells to it hoping the cells' regenerative properties would save the Erika-rosebush's life. Instead, it grows up into Biollante. With that set-up you'd think Biollante would go on some kind of rampage showing how misguided and irresponsible Shiragami was in his scientific endeavor, however emotionally driven it may have been.

But, later Godzilla shows up, and almost the whole story shifts over to the military trying to stop Godzilla while playing cat and mouse with various international and corporate agents in order to get their hands on Godzilla cells, and later, the anti-nuclear-energy bacteria. After all the portent set-up with Biollante, she ends up getting pushed aside in story focus and just sits around in a lake waiting for Godzilla to show up. Then she almost arbitrarily shows up again at the climax to fight Godzilla for whatever reason to an inconclusive end when the bacteria in Godzilla's bloodstream takes effect, and then she flies up into space never to be heard from again.

It almost feels like either Kazuki Omori didn't really know what to do with Biollante. Either that or he wanted to feature her more as a giant Frankenstein-like threat but couldn't because there wasn't enough budget to showcase both Godzilla and Biollante equally, forcing him to primarily focus on Godzilla's cross country rampage. In the end for me it felt like the movie's supposed "dangers of genetic research" message really got lost in a script that decided Godzilla's return was more important.


I don't feel like the shift in emphasis from Biollante to Godzilla is all that problematic. First off, narratively, Biollante and Godzilla's stories were always intertwined, as it was a story about Godzilla's cells, so Godzilla himself was always a lingering element, which simply comes to the forefront as things progress. And I never thought of the dangers of genetic engineering being the point of the movie so much as simply the dangers of reckless abuse of knowledge/scientific advancement, a theme which is absolutely relevant to both monsters.

Throughout the movie, Omori provides us with multiple variants on a character type in order to give us different perspectives on the same set of ideas/principles/themes, and this extends from the human characters to apply to the monsters as well. He never seems to have set out to tell a clean, linear story, but rather to weave a thematic tapestry, in which an ensemble of characters and monsters are grouped in various combinations at different points, propelling a larger series of events in which no one of them - except, perhaps, Godzilla - is ultimately central.

I can see where one might find it muddled, but I don't think that's at all a flaw in the construction of the story, simply a stylistic choice that will not be to everyone's tastes.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
User avatar
eabaker
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:43 pm
Location: Glendale, CA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:30 pm

One of the reasons I like this movie is even when the monsters aren't on the screen there is always a threat of danger. This is one of the few Godzilla movies that kills off characters important to the plot. The only movie I can think of that's similar is Godzilla vs. Hedorah which kills off the male lead during Hedorah's attack on Mt. Fuji...but they kind of just drop that. After Gondo dies you know that anyone is fair game.

This film is very suspenseful from Godzilla's return to the ineffectiveness of ANEB. Sure the action is more boring than other Godzilla films, but I'm always engaged by the movie.
Image
User avatar
Jorzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:39 am
Location: Seattle

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:50 pm

Jorzilla wrote:Sure the action is more boring than other Godzilla films

Disagree.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18867
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Jorzilla » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:47 am

Both main fights are incredibly short and one sided in Godzilla's favor. Biollante gets some good shots in at the end but Godzilla feels sick all of the sudden and gos for a nice dunk in the ocean.

The destruction sequences are pretty good, but a lot of the movie is the build up/suspense leading to Godzilla's release. The stakes are raised for each of the fights/destruction sequences, but the fighting is over relatively quick. I feel this movie relies more on the mood than the set pieces.
Image
User avatar
Jorzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:39 am
Location: Seattle

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby ILL GREEN » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:39 am

This movie is such on an experimental tip and thats why I dig this movie. '84 was a Hollywood traditional flick but Toho went another route with this one. Not so psychedelic like Hedorah but trippy.

Still, '84 had the best props and miniatures, no other movie like it before and after in the tokusatsu realm.
Image
AVAILABLE NOW! ILL GREEN HADOSHI ART FIGURES HANDMADE AND HANDPAINTED!
User avatar
ILL GREEN
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:10 pm

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Jorzilla wrote:I feel this movie relies more on the mood than the set pieces.


Well, that and story. I think vs. Biollante's story/script are pretty much the main reasons I love it so much.
Someone on tumblr said they didn't know why so many people liked Godzilla vs. Biollante (1989),
this was my response, not amazing or anything, but I just thought I'd post it, especially about
Shirigami being an anti-Serizawa
Mostly because of the concepts within the film and their fairly competent execution (something that’s almost impossible to find at any point after 1989). Godzilla vs. Biollante deals with the existence of Godzilla. Not just in that he exists and crushes "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" and fights monsters, but what that means. The Godzilla cells exist, and they are the reason Godzilla survives and can absorb nuclear energy. Research into Godzilla Cells produces ANEB which effectively upsets the entire balance of the world powers. Nuclear obliteration isn’t such a potent threat when they can utilize G-Cells to nullify the weapons. I mean, there’s also the mad scientist plot/psychic girls, but that first bit, which is the whole spine of the movie is SUPERB. It feels so grounded in reality for a movie that has psychic schoolgirls/plant monsters/Godzilla. Bio Major is another cool plot point, of course terrorists would utilize kaiju for their nefarious plots. It’s life After Godzilla returns, and its one of the best films in the franchise simply for its intricate plot and storytelling all of which live up to its potential.

Not only that but we have a pretty vast cast of characters, all of whom seem to be fleshed out enough to feel distinctive. This is, again, something almost nonexistent post 1989, or really post Showa. It’s also thematically interesting when viewed alongside the other films in its timeline (Godzilla 1954 and Godzilla 1984). The first Goji film is about mankind being punished, and the second film (especially when taken with the Raymond Burr scenes in the 1985 cut) is about acceptance of our punishment and an attempt to simply survive and coexist (luring him into something of nature). Biollante is the ultimate folly because it’s about us trying to monetize and fight over and use Godzilla for our own petty means. In fact Shirigami is the representative of this in the film. He is the anti-Serizawa, he creates something terrible (Biollante) for the purpose of holding on to his daughter, something his research effectively took away from him.

I mean, that may not explain everything about why the film is held in pretty high regard, but that’s some of why I hold it in high regard. The movie looks even better when you see what came after it (Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah) the point at which Kazuki Omori and Kawakita and pretty much everyone gave up on being interesting and at least partially innovative as far as storytelling was concerned.

Although I wanna say Kawakita did okay work here, and so did Omori. I think a lot of Omori’s problems probably came from the usage of classic Toho monsters and trying to emulate those older films.
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:29 pm

^Dude, amazing point there. This movie shows, by leaps and bounds, the best depiction of the "fallout" (pun not intended, but totally staying here) of Godzilla's arrival and what that means.

Not just on a reactive level of "How do we deal with Godzilla?" but on the level of what Godzilla's existence actually MEANS to the world at large. Something we've otherwise never really gotten a good look at.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18867
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby eabaker » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:06 pm

^^Excellent post, MKG3K! I may have to quote it on other sites (with due citation, of course) in the future! You definitely summed up a big part of the movie's appeal.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
User avatar
eabaker
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:43 pm
Location: Glendale, CA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby metal_bryan » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:25 pm

That's such a great summation of its strengths... and you didn't even mention the amazing spfx!
User avatar
metal_bryan
Controller
 
Posts: 4249
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:59 am
Location: Florida, USA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:52 am

As much as I LIKE Godzilla 1985, this movie single-handedly keeps me from saying I hate the Heisei era.

This movie is SO MUCH DELICIOUSNESS AND AMAZING. I just absolutely adore this film. The effects are fantastic, the score is great (I like it, poo on you), the acting is good, the characters are pretty memorable, the machinations and motivations of everyone are inventive and logical (or believably illogical, in the case of Shiragami). I love the little line-animation things and how they seem so sterile and simple and then we always cut to some scene of it raining or Godzilla being bombarded. I love the way Godzilla looks.

I can't sing this film's praises enough. It's SO good. SO much fun.

I really love the movies wherein there are elaborate military plans to stop Godzilla that, but for one or two things, could have worked. This actually doesn't happen too often, unfortunately, but Mothra vs. Godzilla and this film are the shining examples of it. Mothra vs. Godzilla features the artificial lightning and this film features the Super X-2 and the ANEB/TC-Field combo.

It's too bad that the dub track for this film sounds atrocious through any decent speaker system.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18867
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:00 am

This movie had a wow factor I really never experienced with any other G film. Biollante is awesome. I was probably 10ish when I saw it, and I just remember how awe struck I was by Godzilla's presence in the film. Also, the ANEB is a fantastic idea that brings real world implications to a Godzilla flick. It's brilliant.
Image
Kaiju Transmissions Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaijutransmissionspodcast
User avatar
Hybrid Gojira
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Psycho Soldier » Tue May 13, 2014 2:29 am

So, that casual reference to Biollante's name coming from Norse myth has bugged me for a while. After using my Google Fu, that line seems to be almost total BS - but I did find a much likelier source. The closest I could get to a Norse source is Beyla, but that's still a long way off from Biollante. But you know what name isn't far off? Iolanthe, who's a character (based on a real person) from a 19th-century Danish play. The plot doesn't have much connection to Godzilla or Biollante, but the character does live in a garden. Also, take a look at this poster:

Image

This catches my attention.

EDIT: But wait, there's more! I guess I should have looked at the Gilbert and Sullivan opera Iolanthe while I was at it. It's actually a little more pertinent to Biollante's origin: this work's Iolanthe was exiled from the fairy realm for marrying a human male, and also has a son who's half fairy and half human. It does fit the crossbreeding theme, with Biollante being the combination of Godzilla cells, Erika, and a rose.
"Available for your home in 1995, only on Nintendo Ultra 64!"
User avatar
Psycho Soldier
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: Kaneda

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue May 13, 2014 8:57 am

hmmmmm.....I always just took that comment at face value. :lol:
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18867
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby MekaGojira3k » Tue May 13, 2014 10:35 am

It's bugged me for a while, but I never found anything Norse related. Great stuff!
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby angilas » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:16 am

Super x-2 is almost here now that synthetic diamonds have upped their game: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5510791/
User avatar
angilas
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1238
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:59 am

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby daikaijusaurus » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:57 pm

Here's an interesting article. Japanese fans vote Godzilla Vs Biollante as their favorite Godzilla movie:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2014/07/21-1/japanese-fans-pick-godzilla-vs-biollante-as-their-best-godzilla-film

Good choice, although I was kind of surprised the original film wasn't chosen since it's considered among the best Japanese films ever made.

For me, G Vs Biollante is definitely in my top ten of favorite Godzilla movies. But I think Godzilla Vs Monster Zero will always have a special place in my heart as my all time favorite :D
User avatar
daikaijusaurus
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby lhb412 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:49 pm

I'd put it in the top ten - but number one? I don't know what they're smoking.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15287
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:20 pm

Very interesting article. It seems that Godzilla vs. Biollante has stood the test of time as a fan favorite in Japan just as much as it has in the West. The second through fourth choices (G'54, Destroyer, and Mothra vs. Godzilla) are also widely cited as favorites on this side of the world.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5356
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: TALKBACK #17: Godzilla vs. Biollante

Postby lhb412 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:43 pm

Benjamin Haines wrote: The second through fourth choices (G'54, Destroyer, and Mothra vs. Godzilla) are also widely cited as favorites on this side of the world.


I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15287
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Heisei Era: 1984-1995

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest