TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Discuss the 2nd Godzilla film era here! Beam fights, revised versions of classic kaiju, the Heisei era was a mixed bag of fun and controversy!

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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:45 pm

I love all the destruction/military/Godzilla stuff and the political overtones in this movie and its got a great spooky, dark, thick atmosphere, but the lead characters are so BORING, which can make it a chore to sit through.
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Postby Flame of Udin » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:its just too much of a bore to be any good for me...

Godzilla spends most of his time LOOKING pretty badazz but not really DOING...anything at all...


lol, what do you expect him to do? He did the same thing he did in 1954 except with some extra flair like firing at a helicopter causing it to crash into highway traffic and knocking a building on top of a malfunctioning Super-X with the crew inside in agony.

BTW, the shot of Godzilla slowly peering over the knocked over building (after he knocked it on the Super-X) and slowly discovering our 2 survivors are alive is THE single greatest shot of not only any Godzilla movie but any movie period in my opinion. It gives me goosebumps every time I see that short scene.
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Postby Legion » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:27 pm

Flame of Udin wrote:BTW, the shot of Godzilla slowly peering over the knocked over building (after he knocked it on the Super-X) and slowly discovering our 2 survivors are alive is THE single greatest shot of not only any Godzilla movie but any movie period in my opinion. It gives me goosebumps every time I see that short scene.


You lost me completely with this.
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Postby H-Man » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:06 pm

Flame of Udin wrote:BTW, the shot of Godzilla slowly peering over the knocked over building (after he knocked it on the Super-X) and slowly discovering our 2 survivors are alive is THE single greatest shot of not only any Godzilla movie but any movie period in my opinion. It gives me goosebumps every time I see that short scene.


It's not my favorite, but I definitely agree that it's a powerful shot! It's the only terrifying scene of Godzilla in the entire picture.
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Postby Flame of Udin » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:12 pm

Legion wrote:
Flame of Udin wrote:BTW, the shot of Godzilla slowly peering over the knocked over building (after he knocked it on the Super-X) and slowly discovering our 2 survivors are alive is THE single greatest shot of not only any Godzilla movie but any movie period in my opinion. It gives me goosebumps every time I see that short scene.


You lost me completely with this.


Making me whip out the ol' DVD Legion....

This is the shot I am referring to.
Image
Image

And Cody, I beg to differ. For example.

The great reveal:
Image

The surprise surface in front of a helicopter:
Image

Fed up with being shot at:
Image

The entire bridge battle, but especially the silent climax:
Image

Also, something I just discovered while taking those shots...the eyes on the suit (as in not the Cybot) actually move! I never knew that before.
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Postby H-Man » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:26 pm

I did forget about the scene of Godzilla destroying the armed forces on the shore, but the other scenes you mentioned are still pretty "meh" to me. Truthfully, this isn't one of my favorite movies (I prefer the pacing of the Godzilla 1985 version), but it still has it's moments. I really like the disaster-movie quality to it, which is something Toho hadn't done since the 50s (and hasn't done since). I really love Godzilla's attack on the power plant though. That's easily Nakano's best work in the Godzilla series. One scene that really sticks out from that sequence (and shows a terrifying Godzilla) is the scene where the power plant workers run in the foreground while Godzilla levels a few buildings.
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Postby MouthForWar » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:32 pm

Cody Himes wrote:I did forget about the scene of Godzilla destroying the armed forces on the shore, but the other scenes you mentioned are still pretty "meh" to me. Truthfully, this isn't one of my favorite movies (I prefer the pacing of the Godzilla 1985 version), but it still has it's moments. I really like the disaster-movie quality to it, which is something Toho hadn't done since the 50s (and hasn't done since). I really love Godzilla's attack on the power plant though. That's easily Nakano's best work in the Godzilla series. One scene that really sticks out from that sequence (and shows a terrifying Godzilla) is the scene where the power plant workers run in the foreground while Godzilla levels a few buildings.


I agree with this. The thing that really drags it down are the dull human characters and the stupid, out of nowhere "Godzilla is attracted to birds" thing.

To be honest, the spooky atmosphere and the score are the best things about this movie.
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Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:42 pm

The human characters are bad but they really arent that bad all things being considered...I dare you to say any of the other Hesei series films had better (with the exception of Biolante) human characters...they all sucked and some sucked more...in my book Godzilla 85' has some of the least ugh...sucky human characters in the Hesei series...though none of them hold a candle to even the sloppiest of Showa era human characters
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Postby H-Man » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:49 pm

MouthForWar wrote:To be honest, the spooky atmosphere and the score are the best things about this movie.


Likewise, I agree with this. :lol: The score is terrific!

Also, it's unfortunate Toho didn't have more chances to release Godzilla movies in the 80s. Though I didn't live it, the end of the cold war was the perfect time to bring Godzilla back to his roots. By the time the VS series was well under way, it was too late.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:05 pm

Flame of Udin wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:its just too much of a bore to be any good for me...

Godzilla spends most of his time LOOKING pretty badazz but not really DOING...anything at all...


lol, what do you expect him to do? He did the same thing he did in 1954

False...in 1954 he rained down a sea of fire that threatened to consume the entire city and left people irradiated and was literally a walking nuke

in 1984 he knocked buildings over and wasn't much different than a hurricane or earthquake...he even blasts the building our main characters are in and it doesnt catch fire...
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Postby Legion » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:11 pm

This movie is boring.

The original Godzilla was intense, and the Tokyo attack was really dramatic, well choreographed and just had a very personal feeling. Godzilla just plows through the city relentlessly in this film and absolutely nothing stops him. By contrast, nothing really seems to happen during Godzilla's attack in Godzilla 1985. Once Godzilla gets to the heart of the city he just stays there and wanders around until they easily lead him away and dispose of him. I don't feel any power from Godzilla. He looks like he's stoned half the time, I don't care about the characters or the Super X and because of that I don't feel any tension whatsoever.

Personally I think this movie is a misfire that seems to have been blown up into something it really isn't by fans who really want to love it as a dark, atmospheric Godzilla movie.
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Postby heroforhirerob » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:59 pm

I don't like this one. Pretty dull really....I guess I prefer the VS films where he has some credible opposition. I'm not fond of the Godzilla suit in this one..too anthropomorphic for me. The Biollante suit is much better. Near the bottom of my list. Nothing god awful about it or anything. Technically, it's well made...it just doesn't have anything truly memorable about it or much to sustain my interest compared to other films.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:06 am

It is pretty dull. I do love the score, but I'm far more likely to listen to that on my ipod than pop this in. I'll take the silliness of Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah over this any day. Simply because it keeps my attention.
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Postby badism » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:46 pm

My absolute favorite Godzilla movie. Saw it in theaters when I was 8 and have loved it ever since. For me it has the best cinematography of the whole series and some of the best shots of Godzilla ever. It's one of the few Godzilla movies that seems like the director was trying to make a real movie that happened to have a monster in it, instead of a monster movie. It's very serious and even gave me nightmares as a kid. Although I am a huge lover of Ifukube I also feel 1985 had the best score of any giant monster film.
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Postby Flame of Udin » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:17 pm

badism wrote:My absolute favorite Godzilla movie. Saw it in theaters when I was 8 and have loved it ever since. For me it has the best cinematography of the whole series and some of the best shots of Godzilla ever. It's one of the few Godzilla movies that seems like the director was trying to make a real movie that happened to have a monster in it, instead of a monster movie. It's very serious and even gave me nightmares as a kid. Although I am a huge lover of Ifukube I also feel 1985 had the best score of any giant monster film.


At least one person is on my side :lol:

But honestly, I feel this movie really defines what Godzilla is (as Burr states at the end of 1985). People say his attack on Tokyo is boring, but I feel the exact opposite. When he wakes up from his cadnium coma you really feel a sence of dread as we see helpless observers run for their lives, toppeling each other over and to no avail.

Not only that, this movie was so realistic compared to the rest of the series (excluding 1954). They actually tried to put some scientific backing on his behavior and habits for once, not to mention we get to see what happens when ocean parasites feed on Godzilla. Being a creature that big and living in the ocean it is logical that he would have smaller animals feeding off him which was a brilliant idea yet it is never mentioned outside of this movie. Also, the international turmoil that was going on was probably much more scary then, say, time traveling terrorists.

Maybe it's just that I prefer my Godzilla movies as solo films. 1954 and 84' are two of the darkest, most powerful films in the series in my opinion.
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Postby canofhumdingers » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:25 pm

Flame of Udin wrote:At least one person is on my side :lol:


You obviously never read my post on the first page...

I love this movie! Despite its perceived flaws of slow pacing and dull characters, it has a lot going for it. Great score. Both the score and the movie are very moody & atmospheric. My favorite Godzilla suit. (to borrow from Tony the Tiger,) It's great!

and not to pick on rob, but I don't see how anyone could say this

Image

Is more anthropomorphic than this:

Image

The more upright stance, straighter legs, and broader shoulders look much more human to me, although ultimately I like both suits.
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Postby Goji 84 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:54 pm

Shonokin wrote:Saw it in the theater when it came out in the US. I'm not sure if my GF fell asleep but I sure did. Haven't seen it since. Might have to track down the Japanese version sometime.


Wow...you really haven't watched this film in 25 years..? Sheesh.
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Postby badism » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:22 pm

Flame of Udin wrote:
badism wrote:My absolute favorite Godzilla movie. Saw it in theaters when I was 8 and have loved it ever since. For me it has the best cinematography of the whole series and some of the best shots of Godzilla ever. It's one of the few Godzilla movies that seems like the director was trying to make a real movie that happened to have a monster in it, instead of a monster movie. It's very serious and even gave me nightmares as a kid. Although I am a huge lover of Ifukube I also feel 1985 had the best score of any giant monster film.


At least one person is on my side :lol:

But honestly, I feel this movie really defines what Godzilla is (as Burr states at the end of 1985). People say his attack on Tokyo is boring, but I feel the exact opposite. When he wakes up from his cadnium coma you really feel a sence of dread as we see helpless observers run for their lives, toppeling each other over and to no avail.

Not only that, this movie was so realistic compared to the rest of the series (excluding 1954). They actually tried to put some scientific backing on his behavior and habits for once, not to mention we get to see what happens when ocean parasites feed on Godzilla. Being a creature that big and living in the ocean it is logical that he would have smaller animals feeding off him which was a brilliant idea yet it is never mentioned outside of this movie. Also, the international turmoil that was going on was probably much more scary then, say, time traveling terrorists.

Maybe it's just that I prefer my Godzilla movies as solo films. 1954 and 84' are two of the darkest, most powerful films in the series in my opinion.


I don't know how anybody could think the fight with the super x was boring. I was on the edge of my seat and worried sick for the heroic pilots. I often wondered if the ship could take the hit from the building seeing as how it could withstand the heat ray. Probably not though, they were probably crushed. :o
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Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:26 pm

yawn. like many Godzilla super weapons they got really stupid...why they gave up on the whole cadmium missile thing just because he got randomly struck by a bolt of radioactive lightning is beyond me
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Postby Flame of Udin » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:46 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:yawn. like many Godzilla super weapons they got really stupid...why they gave up on the whole cadmium missile thing just because he got randomly struck by a bolt of radioactive lightning is beyond me


Because Godzilla wasn't stupid enough to let the same thing happen twice?

Or my theory, they simply ran out.
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Postby Legion » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:51 pm

badism wrote:I don't know how anybody could think the fight with the super x was boring. I was on the edge of my seat and worried sick for the heroic pilots.


Really?? The Super X just came out of nowhere and I had no idea who any of the people inside of the thing even were. How do you care about anything you can't relate to?
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Postby badism » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:09 pm

We see them in the ship. I may not have know anything about them, but they were human beings putting their own lives at risk to save other people. It's just empathy.
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Postby Flame of Udin » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:19 pm

badism wrote:We see them in the ship. I may not have know anything about them, but they were human beings putting their own lives at risk to save other people. It's just empathy.


Completely agree with you badism! you didn't need to really know those characters. Putting them in that situation was certainly enough for me and I really felt for them when their died. And the battle was VERY suspenseful.

Sorry I overlooked you canofhumdingers, kind of skipped over the beginning of the thread :).
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:26 pm

Flame of Udin wrote:
badism wrote:We see them in the ship. I may not have know anything about them, but they were human beings putting their own lives at risk to save other people. It's just empathy.


Completely agree with you badism! you didn't need to really know those characters. Putting them in that situation was certainly enough for me and I really felt for them when their died. And the battle was VERY suspenseful.


I guess it was suspenseful, but I really didn't care about them. I mean, if we had gotten to know them even the slightest, like the crew in the MechaGodzilla in GvsMG93, then I may have given a damn about them. As it is in the film, I'm just sort of like "Woo weird flying ship thing fighting Godzilla!"

What's funny is that you get to know some of the people behind the Super X-2 in Godzilla vs. Biollante. Only this time, they're not even in the ship removing any of the tension.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:30 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
Flame of Udin wrote:
badism wrote:We see them in the ship. I may not have know anything about them, but they were human beings putting their own lives at risk to save other people. It's just empathy.


Completely agree with you badism! you didn't need to really know those characters. Putting them in that situation was certainly enough for me and I really felt for them when their died. And the battle was VERY suspenseful.


I guess it was suspenseful, but I really didn't care about them. I mean, if we had gotten to know them even the slightest, like the crew in the MechaGodzilla in GvsMG93, then I may have given a damn about them. As it is in the film, I'm just sort of like "Woo weird flying ship thing fighting Godzilla!"

What's funny is that you get to know some of the people behind the Super X-2 in Godzilla vs. Biollante. Only this time, they're not even in the ship removing any of the tension.
+1 Meka...+1

I feel like we know the Super X2 crew a LOT better...the Super X crew to me are no different whatsoever than any of the multitudes of people that have died trying to fight Godzilla...to say I feel for them would be to say I feel for generic soldier #3 and I quite plain and simple do not
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