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TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla • Monster Zero x SciFi Japan

TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Discuss the 2nd Godzilla film era here! Beam fights, revised versions of classic kaiju, the Heisei era was a mixed bag of fun and controversy!

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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby Dr Kain » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:05 pm

85 was the first Godzilla movie I ever saw and I thought it was boring. Yes, I was like 7 when I saw it in 89, but still.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby eabaker » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:20 pm

While it wasn't the first I ever saw, it's the first one I remember seeing, and it had massive impact on 6-year-old me. "Boring" would have been just about the furthest word from my mind.

Seeing on the big screen the first time was part of that, I'm sure, as did the fact that I went in already thinking Godzilla was awesome.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby klen7 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:09 pm

^I'm in the same boat. Now i look back at the film as a bit slow, but it was the first G flick i saw... and well... it started something.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby lhb412 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:52 pm

I get the feeling that this and King Kong vs. Godzilla (which was mine) are very common 'first Godzilla films' for people.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby DannyBeane » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:56 pm

KKvsG was the "first" G film I ever saw allegedly however G 85 is the first I remember seeing. I remember it vaguely. I was around 5 years old so this was around 1990-91. It was around Christmas or New Years. I was jumping on the couch eating fruity pebbles cereal from the box with my hands. The VHS tape that was rented from Max's Video had just started playing and the opening with Godzilla attacking the boat and then the sea louse scene happened and scared me. Why was Godzilla the bad guy? Why was he scary? It confused the hell out of me as a kid.


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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:55 pm

Gills.

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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby Andrew Nguyen » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:11 am

For me, Godzilla 1985 was my fifth Godzilla film and after seeing the Showa films, Godzilla 1985 was a huge departure for me in the portrayal of Godzilla and the action. No doubt the color style and the atmosphere helped.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby lhb412 » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:59 am

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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby Rody » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:45 pm

Godzilla 1985 was one of the last G films I saw - I think my first viewing was probably some time in the late 2000's. I was all excited to see it, because I recognized the from a , and realized this was the movie it originated from. :!: I had barely heard of Godzilla 1985 before, so this was a pleasant surprise.

I've only seen Godzilla 1985 once, recently, since that time. I didn't think much of it, though. Final judgement will have to wait until I see the Japanese cut, but the film seemed awkward to me somehow, like it wasn't edited properly and various moments weren't given as much (or as little) time to develop as they needed.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby EricDent » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:31 am

This is the first Godzilla movie I saw on the big screen.
Man must have got really lucky since it was such a limited release...
Before that I saw various ones shown on TBS during the Super Scary Saturday program.

I had no clue that Godzilla couldn't die very easily, so I was crying when he falls into the volcano.

Hope that soon we get at least a DVD (preferably of both versions like Godzilla 2000) in the USA.
Still have the New World Pictures VHS.
I think I still have a couple volumes of the comic book version of the story (which doesn't have Mr. Burr in there).
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Re: TALKBACK #16: Godzilla 1985

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:01 pm

This was my first Godzilla movie and is the film that started my obsession with the character. It definitely holds a soft spot in my heart because of that, but it's not a great movie by any means. I revisited this today and I can safely say I actually do prefer the Americanized version. It has a better pace, cuts out the bad effects shots, and is more entertaining. Raymond Burr adds some validity to the American cast, and I really love his monologue at the end. The American version does cut out some of the meaning and backstory for the Japanese cast, but I'm ok with it because it leaves behind some of the more unnecessary stuff along with it. It also rearranges Godzilla's attack sequences to a better effect.

Pros:
The Cybot has some truly awesome scenes.
Godzilla's battle with Super X; his battle at Tokyo Bay.
The main Godzilla theme is awesome.
I LAVA YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU (Ok, I hate that song, but if you get the reference, you're now singing the song in your head, and it's a common trope for monster films).
Evil Russians - I don't care what you say, Godzilla and Rocky beat the Russians and I'm ok with it.

Cons:
Godzilla can look derpy at times.
When Godzilla is off screen, the film can drag.

I'd give this a 6 or 6.5/10. It's a middle of the road kinda movie.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:18 pm

After roughly two decades since the last time this film was released on home video in North America (and never in it's original Japanese version) The Return of Godzilla is now widely available! Hopefully, I'll be giving the disc a spin tonight.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:59 pm

Finally watched The Return of Godzilla after all these years, and my verdict upon completion?

Well, it's still not that great a film, but it is interesting and has some cool bits.

I do think this Japanese version is quite a bit superior to the U.S. version, because while Godzilla 1985 does improve the pacing dramatically in some parts its also eliminates the lion's share of what little characterization the movie's cast and story has, as well as eliminated several cool details and special effects considered not up to snuff. In my opinion the effects sequences restored here add a bit of fun and variety to the movie despite their proficiency in the snuff department. I especially like the scenes showing how crowds of people are still on the ground in Tokyo, instead of the empty impression the city scenes have in G1985. More than anything, the effects sequences give the impression of Nakano experimenting with his bigger budget, even if some things turn out pretty odd (like the foot!).

It's also quite a nostalgia trip: every bit of G1985 was burned into my brain at a young age, but I also got the manga adaptation of The Return of Godzilla (including bits excised from the American version) when I was ten years old, so I found myself having nostalgia for things I've seen and haven't seen but knew about! Funky feeling.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:54 pm

It's funny how they wanted this film to be realistic and of its time (in contrast to the outrageous films that came before) but the lasers are like this single, weird leftover from the '60s-'70s movies. There's no buildup or setup to their use. They just pop up 2/3rds of the way through the film. The JSDF just has a bunch lasers, okay!

- oh, and one more funky leftover: the Gigan sound for the radiation detector thing.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Rody » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:15 pm

I'm really happy to have finally seen the original Return of Godzilla (and own it, too, no less!). Having said that...

RoG is an interesting film, but not an exciting one. The film moves at a slow pace, although it feels deliberate - unlike the '85 cut, which, to me, felt rushed and lacking information. RoG takes its time to introduce the cast and set up the upcoming events, and so develops a certain restless, ominous atmosphere (though not as strong as I was hoping). Unfortunately, few of the characters are given much development, despite several hints and beginning threads. Goro's kind of a jerk, but we don't get to see much development from there. Hiroshi Okumura develops a hatred for Godzilla, but nothing at all comes out of this. His sister, Naoko, is simply "there". Hayashida is kind of interesting, with his perspective of Godzilla both objective and a little mythic, but on his own this doesn't get far. It would have great to see his wiser attitude contrast with Hiroshi's potential vengeance, or see Hayashida become a peace-keeper (or something) between Goro and the Okumuras. The one character that does seem handled well is the Prime Minister. This is occurring to me as I write it, but the Prime Minister's perspective contrasts with all the other main characters, in that while they've all been waiting for this moment (Hayashida), or at least got caught up in it and are now trying to make the most of it (Goro & Hiroshi), Godzilla's appearance is easily the last thing the poor Prime Minister wanted to deal with. In spite of this, the Prime Minister steps up to the task, and gives the utmost consideration to the ensuing events. I have to sympathize with him; he has to balance three superpowers at once (Godzilla, the USA, and the Soviet Union), and it's kind of a wonder he keeps things under control as much as he does - which makes it hard to watch when Godzilla arrives and the missile launches anyway.
Godzilla's arrival and march through Tokyo are, of course, the big draw for the film; but this is also where the film may stumble the most. Godzilla is fairly animalistic in this film: he is driven by a need to feed, rather than some intangible sense of wrath. His walk through the city is surreal more than it is frightening - which is interesting to watch, but far less enthralling than a bona fide rampage would have been. Make no mistake, the city sets are quite impressive, as are the military's assault at the bay and Teruyoshi Nakano's pyrotechnics in general; the suit is also one of my favorite designs, despite its occasionally hindered mobility and some jarring shots with the cybot. However, none of these effects are enough to really excite at any point, even when the Super X arrives to do battle with Godzilla (and, honestly, what purpose does the Super X actually serve to the narrative?). Watching Goro, Hayashida, and the Okumuras try to escape the building in the meantime gets tedious as well.

I think RoG feels kind of experimental, as if Toho was testing the waters for the character and his franchise. There's obviously political relevancy to the plot, and there's a lot of potential in the characters and the general atmosphere; but I feel like there's something lacking to give the film the "oomph" it needs (not unlike my thoughts towards G2K, curiously). Don't get me wrong, I did like the film; but I was kind of hoping I'd love it, and instead came away feeling it was just highly adequate. I'm delighted to have it in my film collection, nevertheless. Hopefully I'll warm up to it more on future viewings.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:04 pm

^You're right about about the Prime Minister being the best character in the film. Love how we get a scene where the military and Hayashida essentially have dueling plans to stop Godzilla, and in any other movie they'd fight and debate about what they're gonna go with, but the PM just settles it quickly by saying they should go forward with both plans.

As for the Super X, I think it was a way for them to give Godzilla and opponent to spar with while keeping it a solo Godzilla film. A little bit of 'have your cake and eat it, too.'
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby GFan » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:37 pm

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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Mac » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:29 pm

Watched the blu-ray recently and enjoyed it more then I thought I would. Nakano's special effects work is light years ahead of the stuff Kawakita was doing a decade later. The battle between the Super-X and Godzilla after he re-awakens is really stunning. The monolithic miniatures stand out and there's this great use of red-orange. Godzilla does look awkward head-on though (that whole train scene).

The story is really dry, but I appreciate that early 80s Japanese aesthetic. The film also feels way more cosmopolitan than any of the later Heisei or Millennium films. I'm glad that Shin Godzilla features Godzilla in the heart of Japan's modern city-centers.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:15 pm

I love that initial pan from Godzilla to the arriving Super-X because it gives you a real feel of how expansive this miniature set is.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Psycho Soldier » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:23 am

Watching it after Shin Godzilla, I can't get excited for this movie anymore, at least not for the Japanese cut. I thought it was a middling G-film before, but now there's a close alternative that isn't Gojira. It's not that this is a bad movie. I like the visual effects (mostly), the music is great, and the Cold War politics are still fairly interesting. Some shots are really impressive, too. It's just that Shin Godzilla dominates it in almost every respect: it has more interesting characters, more engaging political drama (by virtues of editing and humour), a more interesting Godzilla, greater tension, more visual excitement (though not, mind you, better effects -- ROG gets my nod). And if I find myself longing for the '80s Gothic atmosphere, I can always watch Biollante.

I don't know if others feel similarly after seeing Shin Godzilla. I can't help but compare them, though, and find that one falls short of the other.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:27 pm

^Shin and Return definitely share a lot of DNA. It's like they decided to blow up the most interesting parts of Return of Godzilla into an entire film.

... but at the same time, my fondness for Return has increased in these past few months. It's has flaws, but I'm on record as not being terribly fond of the feel of the majority of the Heisei films, but I dig the feel, the tone, of this movie.
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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby canofhumdingers » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:53 pm

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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:31 pm

Gills.

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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:34 am

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Re: TALKBACK #16: The Return of Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:39 pm

^ The '90s films are just so beige, everything feels like it's under the flat lights of a public school or something.

When watching the films in order the better lighting and cinematography of G2K was very welcome.
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