TALKBACK #11: Godzilla vs. Hedorah

Discuss the original series of Godzilla films! From "Terror of Tokyo" to Puppy-faced Super-hero, the Showa Era had something for everyone!

Moderator: Controllers

Postby walshiam » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:57 pm

^^couldn't have said it better myself.
walshiam
Godzilla
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:41 pm
Location: Wichita, Kansas via Austin, TX

Postby godziwolf » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:50 am

walshiam wrote:Godzilla vs. Hedorah is not one of my faves but if we're talking Godzilla vs. The Smog Monster, it ranks as 2nd right behind GKOTM. Loved it when I saw it in a theater in 72 and love it even more now.


It's funny, I have the exact opposite reaction. I grew up with the Smog Monster version and loathed everything about it. A bizarre, non-sensical movie with that insipid flying Godzilla. Only cool part was the kid's Godzilla collection.

Just watched the widescreen GvHedorah cut. Such an improvement. Now I see what Banno was going for in some of those scenes. It doesn't all work, but it's almost always inspired. The biggest flaw is that it's so tonally uneven. It careens from series to camp, with these semi-dream sequence bits. It just doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense. And I have no idea why the military largely ignored both Godzilla and Hedorah. You'd think they'd at least trot out a mazer tank or two for form's sake.

Cool bits:
The monster POV scenes. They don't entirely work, but it's cool.

The foreground shot of the army setting up with the monster's beams visible in the background, fighting in the other valley. Such a cool shot, and I've never seen something like this recreated. Easy shot, too, as it could be entirely rotoscoped. Probably my second favorite composite shot, after the traveling shot of Godzilla in the background with the cows in the foreground from GvMothra.

A lot of monster fight time. The suits on on-screen for a ton of the movie.

Hedorah's reactions to things. Really good suit acting. Great portrayal of a monster that was in no hurry and almost curious at times. The head tilts when it noticed Godzilla were really well done.

Hedorah itself. Neat monster. Godzilla had some really difficult 70s foes, between Hedorah and MechaGodzilla. Not sure which one gave him more trouble, but Hedorah's in the discussion with Ghidorah and MG74.

Color. Interesting use of color throughout.

The bad:

Flying Godzilla is just soooo stupid. Ruins the finale, and kills the momentum the film had been building. Such a miscalculation in an otherwise worthy film. Just a bad idea all around.

The movie veers around and often doesn't make sense. I can't figure out why the characters would do what they did, and why the military never seemed to care. This would be forgivable, if not for jet-powered Godzilla.
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
godziwolf
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:04 pm

Postby Legion » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:50 pm

godziwolf wrote:And I have no idea why the military largely ignored both Godzilla and Hedorah. You'd think they'd at least trot out a mazer tank or two for form's sake.


I've always felt Godzilla vs Hedora was (sort of) set in a alternate Showa universe in which the events of the past may or may not have happened, the location Godzilla is coming back and forth from is unknown and the military isn't advanced enough to be wielding maser cannons. Godzilla vs Hedorah is an entity that's so self contained that there's nothing whatsoever (aside from the character of Godzilla) that ties this movie to any of the others. This is one of the many reasons I love the Showa films. Individual movies could break all ties to any and all past continuity yet there was never a need to constantly re-establish Godzilla's character or pretend the movie was set in a different universe altogether.

There's a great bit of acting from Godzilla towards the end of the movie that made me crack up the first time I noticed it. After Godzilla drags the second Hedora back towards the electrodes and the generators fail once again he looks at the camera and shakes his head, obviously frustrated at the incompetence of the military.
http://legion1979.tumblr.com/

Hello, Nice Warners! - A Thorough Analysis of Every Animaniacs Episode
Legion
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 7303
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:11 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:40 am

godziwolf wrote:And I have no idea why the military largely ignored both Godzilla and Hedorah. You'd think they'd at least trot out a mazer tank or two for form's sake.


They didn't ignore the monsters, it's just that their involvement wasn't shown on-screen until the third act with the electrodes. When Hedorah takes off for Mt. Fuji, Dr. Yano listens to a news report in which it's said that the military fired at Hedorah on the coast but the shells went right through the monster.

I like that Banno chose not devote screen time to that much military action with his movie. He understood that it would have contributed nothing to the picture and relegated it to a brief mention by a news reporter. Action doesn't always need screen time. Kaneko did something similar with Gamera 3.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby The Dark Uniter » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:55 am

When I first saw Godzilla vs Hedorah, I didn't like it at all [ I was 12]. It was so confusing at first. Later on when I gotten older, I rewatch it and I must say I love it now. I mean its so original! I love the score, Hedorah, the dark images of the movie, the wierd animes in the middle sessons in the movie. Its one of those few love it or hate films. I love it now. This is truely the most ``artisy ``and original we'll see in a Godzilla film. :)
The Dark Uniter
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Upper Marlboro, Maryland USA

Postby TXKaiju » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:32 am

Yeah I remember when I first saw Godzilla vs. the SmogMonster s it was called in America I was 11 at the time and my dad and I went to see it at night in 72. The movie was intersting and what I didnt like were the cartoons they had in the movie about Hedora. I did think Hedora looked really cool! This movie so impressed me that I did a science project about pollution at school that year. Some of my friends asked if I was going to put my Godzilla model on th city I had built LOL I thought about it LOL Anyway after seen this movie I have started to recycle and I still do. It was kind of weird to see Godzilla fly in this movie. After I saw the movie I wonderd if he would fly in other movies ? This is not one of the best Godzilla movies made but it had a great message in it. I thought it was cool to see how Hedora would change forms in the movie. Also me and a few friends who had also just seen Son of Blob in 72 were wondering if America had gotten the idea of the Blob from Japan or if Toho was ripping if the Blob when they made Hedora seen that both monsters were very much alike in that they each could grow and Hedora in one scene seemed to look just like the blob at the night club. We also disussed who was stronger. Of course today considering everything I still think Hedora is more powerful than the Blob. But its always nice to compare American monsters and Japanese monsters. I think Hedora is very underrated and without a doubt is one of the most powerful monsters of the 70s that Godzilla battled.
David Nunez Gojira11354
TXKaiju
Little Godzilla
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:36 am
Location: El Paso Texas

Postby The Dark Uniter » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:55 pm

I wonder what's taking them so long for Godzilla 3D since it also has Hedorah.
Formerly known as TylerPreston
The Dark Uniter
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Upper Marlboro, Maryland USA

Postby TXKaiju » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:11 am

Well Darkhunter I think the fact that there are not alot of Imax theatres in America is one reason the 3D Godzilla movie has not been released it just wont make money plus it cost much more to go see a movie at an Imax theatre. I dont think the Godzilla 3D movie will get released. Plus the movie is very short and not even an hour long. Its always been a mystery to me that even though the white cat that was run over by Hedoras sludge at the night club did not die. but everyone else that was exposed to Hedoras sludge did die. Maybe there is something to the ole saying Cats have nine lives.
David Nunez Gojira11354
TXKaiju
Little Godzilla
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:36 am
Location: El Paso Texas

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:27 am

TXKaiju wrote:Well Darkhunter I think the fact that there are not alot of Imax theatres in America is one reason the 3D Godzilla movie has not been released it just wont make money plus it cost much more to go see a movie at an Imax theatre. I dont think the Godzilla 3D movie will get released. Plus the movie is very short and not even an hour long.


It hasn't been made yet, and it never will be.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby zekend01 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:04 pm

Benjamin Haines wrote:
TXKaiju wrote:Well Darkhunter I think the fact that there are not alot of Imax theatres in America is one reason the 3D Godzilla movie has not been released it just wont make money plus it cost much more to go see a movie at an Imax theatre. I dont think the Godzilla 3D movie will get released. Plus the movie is very short and not even an hour long.


It hasn't been made yet, and it never will be.


I kinda hope it's never made.
"If you can take the hot lead enema, then you can cast the first stone." - Lenny Bruce
http://www.myspace.com/cretinfunk
http://www.myspace.com/prometheuscomplex
zekend01
Godzilla
 
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:52 pm
Location: The Abyss

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:09 pm

zekend01 wrote:
Benjamin Haines wrote:
TXKaiju wrote:Well Darkhunter I think the fact that there are not alot of Imax theatres in America is one reason the 3D Godzilla movie has not been released it just wont make money plus it cost much more to go see a movie at an Imax theatre. I dont think the Godzilla 3D movie will get released. Plus the movie is very short and not even an hour long.


It hasn't been made yet, and it never will be.


I kinda hope it's never made.
that seems to be the general sentiment...

if it had been done right on the heels of gfw i think it coulda worked...maybe even snuck into theaters on a double bill with either gfw or maybe gmk or maybe just some other g movie...but at this point...talk about white noise what with so many 3d movies comin out
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18874
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Postby The Dark Uniter » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:33 am

Yeah, ALOT of 3D films came out this year than ever before. They are even making a 3D Final Destination film.
Formerly known as TylerPreston
The Dark Uniter
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Upper Marlboro, Maryland USA

Postby Dolomite » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:34 am

Yeah, but I still don't see them trying to make a 3D Godzilla movie. The only one that might have remotely worked was the crappy american take on the series.

I personally love Godzilla vs. Hedorah, it was the second Godzilla film I saw, and it really seemed to appeal to me at the time. I re watched it recently and I still love it. It just seems so 70's, and really seemed to show much of the time period it was made in. The fight scenes were original and different from many of the other Godzilla movies.
Image
Dolomite
Godzilla Egg
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:42 am

Postby Green Dragon » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:16 am

My first exposure to this movie was also my first exposure to Famous Monsters Magazine, in 1972..... issue #91. It would be a few more years before I actually got to see the movie, after school in 1975 on Channel 9 KHJ in Los Angeles....this time slot and station was a treat, because it's where I saw Atragon, Gorath and Dogora for the first time, too.

As far as Godzilla vs. The Smog Monster, though.....and after being conditioned to the Showa 60's movies by the time I had the opportunity to see this, I was in for a surprise, and at the time, I didn't find it a pleasant one.

Everything was off..... the music seemed like a joke, Honda's elegant directorial style was missing, the effects looked cheaper....the characters weren't engaging or really very likable....and back then, the reasons for this wasn't exactly clear to me at first, but after a little reading in books and magazines on the subject matter (and they were very few back then! :| ) , it all became clear.

But there was a meanness to the story that the 60's movies didn't have..... this was the first Godzilla movie since Gojira that dwelled on death, and it was pretty gruesome at that. Not only that, the surreal touches just didn't click....the animation sequences, the dream sequences, that weird bit with the tv screens of people shouting and protesting, and of all things, a baby mired in muck! :eek: I thought the kitty cat wallowing in Hedorah slime in the nightclub was disturbing, but sheeeez! The sludge and acid burns were a little freaky, even stomach churning.... Then when Godzilla grabbed his tail and started flying, I was over it.... :?

I don't think I saw it again until the Sony DVD release, when I picked it up. The years were less unkind to this than I thought they would be, now having full knowledge of its place and context in Godzilla movie history, seeing it in widescreen and a nice clear print, I can enjoy it for what it is, and actually LIKE it better than a lot of other Godzilla movies, especially anything made in the 90's.

It's a great timepiece from 1972, the hippie stuff is vividly done and well preserved, if corny and jarringly out of place in the series.... I can even be amused at the animation as "interesting" now (not "good", but interesting).

PLUS, Hedorah is and was, regardless of what I thought of the movie, one of my favorite Kaiju. Proper doses of creepy, gross-out, dangerous, mysterious....great noises and sound effects, LOVE the red eyes.....

It's too bad that Hedorah's not been used in other movies, that would be something to see....if done right.

Final Wars was a classic example of NOT doing it right. The suit was ridiculous looking, especially the eyes.... and the "walk-on" appearance where he's blasted out of the water (that shot of him flying into the sky and back down to earth was so effing gawdawful) and then skewered by Ebirah was utter clown shoes. :(
www.facebook.com/wtodd

"...Tibby, I love you my fine little fella, even though you gave the whole family salmonella..."
User avatar
Green Dragon
Godzilla
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:48 pm
Location: Hawaii & California

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:40 am

The Dark Uniter wrote:Yeah, ALOT of 3D films came out this year than ever before. They are even making a 3D Final Destination film.


All the more reason why a 3D Godzilla film won't happen now: competition. Moviegoers have 3D options at any given time now. People looking for a 3D movie fix aren't going to pick a Godzilla film when they can go see anything else instead.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby The Dark Uniter » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:28 am

I sure most people would love to see Godzilla in 3D. When they announced it, I couldn't wait to see it in IMAX whether its 45 mins long or not, I want to see it for the fun of it. I mean the concept is fairly original. No Godzilla has ever been filmed in 3D.
Formerly known as TylerPreston
The Dark Uniter
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Upper Marlboro, Maryland USA

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:42 am

The Dark Uniter wrote:I sure most people would love to see Godzilla in 3D. When they announced it, I couldn't wait to see it in IMAX whether its 45 mins long or not, I want to see it for the fun of it. I mean the concept is fairly original. No Godzilla has ever been filmed in 3D.


most people on this BOARD wouldnt WANT to go see it (granted, many of us WOULD because how often do we get to see big-screen Godzilla films)...

if you can't even get the FANDOM excited, how do you expect to turn a profit amongst an entire SOCIETY of people who have no initial, fan-based interest?
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18874
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:07 pm

The Dark Uniter wrote:I sure most people would love to see Godzilla in 3D. When they announced it, I couldn't wait to see it in IMAX whether its 45 mins long or not, I want to see it for the fun of it. I mean the concept is fairly original. No Godzilla has ever been filmed in 3D.


Remember: Most people aren't Godzilla fans like you.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5420
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby Dolomite » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:15 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
The Dark Uniter wrote:I sure most people would love to see Godzilla in 3D. When they announced it, I couldn't wait to see it in IMAX whether its 45 mins long or not, I want to see it for the fun of it. I mean the concept is fairly original. No Godzilla has ever been filmed in 3D.


most people on this BOARD wouldnt WANT to go see it (granted, many of us WOULD because how often do we get to see big-screen Godzilla films)...

if you can't even get the FANDOM excited, how do you expect to turn a profit amongst an entire SOCIETY of people who have no initial, fan-based interest?


Most Godzilla films don't really show on the big screen in the US, and when they do, they appear at film festivals, where most people will either go because the have a festival pass, or go because they just like attending the festival. Godzilla doesn't ever seem to be marketed to the US society.
Image
Dolomite
Godzilla Egg
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:42 am

Postby Green Dragon » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:20 pm

Dolomite wrote: Godzilla doesn't ever seem to be marketed to the US society.


And when it DOES happen, it's done with a heavy dose of snarky humor, with lines like "Get ready to Crumble!", or in the case of Godzilla 1985, dubbed lines like "Sayanora, Sucker!" or worse....or even in the case of the 1998 abortion, 'SIZE DOES MATTER" and "here, lizard..."

All the way from the rare domestic release (Godzilla 1985 or 2000), to local stations, like "Godzilla Theater" in Los Angeles, on Channel 9, in the 90's, with KROQ morning DJ's Kevin and Bean as hosts. :roll:

That's just the way it is.
www.facebook.com/wtodd

"...Tibby, I love you my fine little fella, even though you gave the whole family salmonella..."
User avatar
Green Dragon
Godzilla
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:48 pm
Location: Hawaii & California

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:11 pm

Posted a full review of this movie HERE

i really think if not for Godzilla vs. Megaguirus, this would be my least favorite film...it really feels SO stripped down and I think i'd blame that on its avoidance of stock-footage...it tries to do a 100% non-stock film on a stock-film budget and it just doesn't work...
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18874
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Postby MouthForWar » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:53 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:Posted a full review of this movie HERE

i really think if not for Godzilla vs. Megaguirus, this would be my least favorite film...it really feels SO stripped down and I think i'd blame that on its avoidance of stock-footage...it tries to do a 100% non-stock film on a stock-film budget and it just doesn't work...


Damn Jelly a BRUTAL review of one of my favs! :(
User avatar
MouthForWar
Controller
 
Posts: 14691
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:01 am
Location: Livonia, MI

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:15 pm

MouthForWar wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:Posted a full review of this movie HERE

i really think if not for Godzilla vs. Megaguirus, this would be my least favorite film...it really feels SO stripped down and I think i'd blame that on its avoidance of stock-footage...it tries to do a 100% non-stock film on a stock-film budget and it just doesn't work...


Damn Jelly a BRUTAL review of one of my favs! :(

I just don't like this movie...

at all

the battles seem totally lifeless and the characters are almost totally unlikeable.
perhaps that could be because this was one of the LAST Godzilla movies I ever saw (excluding the millenium series) because I like other Godzilla films that I recognize as FAR inferior technically and in terms of acting a LOT more than Hedorah (specifically, Godzilla vs. Gigan)

though if I put up reviews that just constantly echoed your sentiments, would it be ANY fun??? :wink:
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18874
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Postby zekend01 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:32 pm

I don't care for it either. It's just trying too hard.
"If you can take the hot lead enema, then you can cast the first stone." - Lenny Bruce
http://www.myspace.com/cretinfunk
http://www.myspace.com/prometheuscomplex
zekend01
Godzilla
 
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:52 pm
Location: The Abyss

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:23 pm

I recently re-watched this and I looked at my posts in this thread. I say a lot about loving it, but nothing very specific. So I wondered....what is it about this film that I love so dearly?

From the get-go I love the Soshingeki-Goji suit and Hedorah's design is aces. So I love the monsters. Most of it comes from so much of what Banno does...and he does everything. There have to be a dozen or more styles and techniques that one would never think of blending in a kaiju film that Banno has firmly grasped and smashed into one another like so many toy cars. Yet it seems, at least within the fandom, that these don't jive so well for everyone. Some people find them jarring, or believe them to have failed on some level. I agree with both of these. Some other people seem to dislike the film purely because Godzilla gets to use his pilot's license. I like all of that which seems disjointed and incoherent about this film.

Bits of the plot don't completely flow as well as the director might have liked. Who the heck is the older teenager and his girlfriend...a brother? A student who likes to hang out with scientists? Yet this narrative functions enough for us to enjoy the film, and it is strung together, for better or worse, by a series of cartoons/cut aways/and other unusualness. It's obvious that the cutaways represent Banno's previous experience with exhibit films and the like, but they also try desperately to lend some kind of scientific credibility to the film. Toho generally has their own brand of pseudo science that comes off as follows.

Person: WHATEVER COULD HAVE CAUSED THIS!?

Scientist: I'm unsure, but possibly this (PLOT THREAD A) and this (PLOT THREAD B) may have resulted in (MONSTER/PROBLEM), many (RELATED MONSTER/PROBLEM) have spawned in the wake of (EITHER PLOT A OR B OR NUCLEAR TESTS)

Here the psuedo science is presented as a series of rejected educational film clips. Either that or we have newscasts and bizarre cartoons. THe whole thing is jarring and even I could stand back and say "This...does not work.....at all." OR DOES IT!? The whole film is chaotic, it blurrs by steeped in strangeness that doesn't seem as though it belongs in our franchise, but from the very beginning Banno seems to be showing us a world in chaos.

See what rampant pollution has caused! A film which divides a fandom. Seriously though we are looking at the darkest film world a Godzilla movie has presented since the beginning. A world in which things have gotten out of control and has reached a fever pitch of death and alien sludge thingies. Riichiro Manabe's music, which my father things is the funniest thing in the world, has the chaotic feel this movie needs. It's either hardcore early 1970s go-go funtime, or it has a strange slothy theme for Godzilla to mosey on up to the battle going on.

The movie's biggest fault, may be how incredibly clumsy and heavy handed the thing is with its message. Regardless the message comes across loud and clear. We have been caught up within our vices and sins and from that muck of responsibilty comes an evil pollution monster. It's a great concept and I think that's the strongest reason I can give for loving the film. We screwed the world, now we're screwed. For all of the silliness and crazypantsawesometownfuntime that goes on during the movie it remains true to its base idea.

I sincerely hope I made sense in this post. If not, I'M JUST LIKE THE MOVIE..Har...har.har..
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

PreviousNext

Return to The Showa Era: 1954-1975

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests