TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Mac » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:54 am

It's an important scene to redo in the movie because of the context. In Son Of Godzilla it's lame and played for laughs. Here Godzilla's actions are more paternal (great pantomiming), and has a purposeful objective of actually trying to help Minya stand up for himself. Also, given the fact that this is all in Ichiro's head, the relationship between Godzilla and Minya here is an obvious stand-in for Ichiro and his own father, who he probably wishes was helping him with his bullying problems. It's sad and poignant, and there's no way this is objectively the worst Godzilla film.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:58 am

It plays out exactly the same except:
-Godzilla kicks Minya in the face, pretty sure he only THREATENS violence in Son of Godzilla
-They are firing at the ground instead of water
-Minya salutes Ichiro at the end

It's played just as much for laughs....Ichiro even chuckles to himself.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:02 am

But mac's point about the significance of the scene still stands.

Also I don't think this is an objectively bad Godzilla film. I don't think it's good so much as okay. The stock footage hampers things and degrades the concept, but the rest of it is fine. It's actually a pretty novel concept that I would love more had it not been so laced with stock footage.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby lhb412 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:50 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:IN any event, the film itself certainly isn't good, and might objectively be the worst Godzilla film, but I can't help but give it some credit for...


Not by a long shot. There's a good dozen entries in the series that are weaker.

And I reiterate: talking Minya is awesome. "Just feeling lonely 'cause I got no friends," is one of the greatest lines in the series.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:32 pm

I said "might be". It's so often argued and stated that it is, I figured I'd address that: it MIGHT BE objectively bad...but I kinda like it because....
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Reaper G » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:14 am

lhb412 wrote: "Just feeling lonely 'cause I got no friends," is one of the greatest lines in the series.


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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Psycho Soldier » Tue May 13, 2014 8:55 pm

The Cinema Snob reviewed this one today, so if you have 20+ minutes to spare...

NSFW language ahead
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Legion » Tue May 13, 2014 9:18 pm

Bruticus wrote:The Cinema Snob reviewed this one today, so if you have 20+ minutes to spare...

NSFW language ahead


If it's 20 minutes of "OMG this crap is terrible, durr durr durr!", I'm not interested.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby mbozzo » Wed May 14, 2014 9:09 pm

I remember first watching All Monsters Attack on television as Godzilla's Revenge. All those monsters and it;s only a dream by a lonely boy. :oops:
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby tbeasley » Mon May 19, 2014 12:47 am

I think most golden age Toho sci-fi/fantasy movies are genuinely well made for what they are, and All Monsters Attack is no exception. Entries post-Destroy All Monsters certainly lose a sense of scope and grandeur, but the heart is still there and plenty is on display here. The stock footage feels like less than half of what the movie is about. There's some clever filmmaking to be seen and it makes me ache to see Honda's non-Godzilla/genre work. It's still a kids' movie though (as can be seen by the slapstick ending) but there's a natural, bittersweet quality to the movie very true to Honda.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu May 22, 2014 2:09 am

tbeasley wrote:I think most golden age Toho sci-fi/fantasy movies are genuinely well made for what they are, and All Monsters Attack is no exception. Entries post-Destroy All Monsters certainly lose a sense of scope and grandeur, but the heart is still there and plenty is on display here. The stock footage feels like less than half of what the movie is about. There's some clever filmmaking to be seen and it makes me ache to see Honda's non-Godzilla/genre work. It's still a kids' movie though (as can be seen by the slapstick ending) but there's a natural, bittersweet quality to the movie very true to Honda.


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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby GFan » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:46 pm

Watched the Japanese version of this recently (I think the last time I watched this was when the Classic Media DVDs came out... so this would only be the second time I've ever watched it!) and was surprised how well the film has aged for me. The dialogue is vastly superior to the American version; so many lines make more sense IMO. I prefer Minyas voice in the Japanese version too. I didn't hate this film growing up (hell, I saw it many times before I saw SON OF GODZILLA & DESTROY ALL MONSTERS), and the stock footage is less jarring to me than in GIGAN. It's not a great Godzilla film or a personal favorite, but it's damn good and better than most of the Showa Gamera films as far as 'kids monster movies' go. Oh, and Gabara is still a pretty bad-ass foe!

So here's a question... is Godzilla REAL in the ALL MONSTERS ATTACK film-universe? Or is he just a movie monster? :shock:

If he's just a movie monster (there is that Marusan Goji in Ichiro's closet...), then the stock footage kind of adds to the movie in a way. All newly-shot Goji-fight footage would have brought this movie up several notches, but I think the fights with Gabara (and relatively short running time) make up for it.

tbeasley wrote:I think most golden age Toho sci-fi/fantasy movies are genuinely well made for what they are, and All Monsters Attack is no exception. Entries post-Destroy All Monsters certainly lose a sense of scope and grandeur, but the heart is still there and plenty is on display here. The stock footage feels like less than half of what the movie is about. There's some clever filmmaking to be seen and it makes me ache to see Honda's non-Godzilla/genre work. It's still a kids' movie though (as can be seen by the slapstick ending) but there's a natural, bittersweet quality to the movie very true to Honda.


Well said!
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:41 am

I'm pretty sure he's just a movie monster.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:39 am

I've read the suggestion that Godzilla's Revenge is set in the "real world" where Godzilla is just a fictional character for years. I don't buy it. I think if that was the case, Honda would have included something, ANYTHING in the film to indicate that this approach to Godzilla's existence in the narrative is meant to be totally unlike the nine films that came before it. He could have included a shot of Ichiro passing by a movie theater with a Godzilla poster, or looking at a print advertisement for one of Toho's Champion Matsuri festivals, or hearing a commercial for the latest Godzilla movie on his radio, but there's nothing like that. The notion that Ichiro has watched Godzilla movies and is remembering them in his dreams just strikes me as a really weak attempt to turn the parade of stock footage into a positive.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:02 pm

Well what convinces you that it takes place in the same world as the other movies?
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Benjamin Haines » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:08 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:Well what convinces you that it takes place in the same world as the other movies?


I take it at face value as the tenth Godzilla movie set in the Showa Series world. A kid in the narrative knows about Godzilla and other monsters, it seems only natural that it's because the events of the prior Godzilla movies (sans the future-flung DAM) have already occurred and the monsters are a known presence in the world of this film. I'm not going to assume that any individual movie in a given series is set in its own self-contained universe unless the filmmakers deliberately set it apart as such.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Legion » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:31 pm

Eh, I think treating it as a movie about a kid who loves Godzilla movies not only makes far more sense in the context of the film, but it's also a hell of a lot more fun.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby MekaGojira3k » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:04 pm

Legion wrote:Eh, I think treating it as a movie about a kid who loves Godzilla movies not only makes far more sense in the context of the film, but it's also a hell of a lot more fun.

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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby walshiam » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:51 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:I've read the suggestion that Godzilla's Revenge is set in the "real world" where Godzilla is just a fictional character for years. I don't buy it. I think if that was the case, Honda would have included something, ANYTHING in the film to indicate that this approach to Godzilla's existence in the narrative is meant to be totally unlike the nine films that came before it. He could have included a shot of Ichiro passing by a movie theater with a Godzilla poster, or looking at a print advertisement for one of Toho's Champion Matsuri festivals, or hearing a commercial for the latest Godzilla movie on his radio, but there's nothing like that. The notion that Ichiro has watched Godzilla movies and is remembering them in his dreams just strikes me as a really weak attempt to turn the parade of stock footage into a positive.



Nothing in the film suggested that Godzilla, Minya and Monster Island was anything other than a child's fantasy brought to life in his dreams. His fantasy could just as well sprung up from viewing previous Godzilla films.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:55 am

walshiam wrote:Nothing in the film suggested that Godzilla, Minya and Monster Island was anything other than a child's fantasy brought to life in his dreams. His fantasy could just as well sprung up from viewing previous Godzilla films.


It could have, but I'm not going to make that assumption just for the sake of it. The nine prior Godzilla movies are set in a world where Godzilla actually exists, as are the five films that followed this one. Unless the filmmakers do something to clearly indicate that this is supposed to be a meta story set in a world where Godzilla movies exist as movies, I'm not going to jump to that conclusion.

If the movie needs apologists 40 years after the fact to rationalize its gratuitous stock footage and the decision to present all of the monster action as part of a kid's dreams, then the movie might just be a stinker. :wink:
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:15 pm

The action CLEARLY takes place in Ichiro's mind, unless you are suggesting Ichiro ACTUALLY warped there, which I don't think you are. Assuming that Godzilla is actually 'real' in this universe, it still doesn't change the fact that none of what happens is actually canon to the films, because again, it takes place in Ichiro's head.

Moreover, every interaction Ichiro has with adult regarding monsters, the adults basically dismiss it as child-like dreams on a few ocassions. If these monsters were actually real in this world, from a FILM MAKING perspective, why didn't Honda have a character blatantly say, on screen (by your criteria): "But how can you like monsters if they kill millions of people?"

The simple fact is, this movie makes the most sense as a 'real-world' film about a Godzilla fan. Whether or not that was the film makers intention, it certainly has become the modern interpretation of the film.

You are free to disagree, but I'd like to see the same evidence from your end rather than this argument about the film being consistent the movies that came before.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:42 pm

Mr. Jorzilla wrote:If these monsters were actually real in this world, from a FILM MAKING perspective, why didn't Honda have a character blatantly say, on screen (by your criteria): "But how can you like monsters if they kill millions of people?"


Because it's not at all outrageous to imagine that kids living in a world where monsters exist might be enamored with them regardless? Nobody in Godzilla vs. Hedorah takes issue with Ken Yano having Godzilla and King Ghidorah toys, and I don't think anyone believes that story is set in a world where they're just movie monsters.


Mr. Jorzilla wrote:Assuming that Godzilla is actually 'real' in this universe, it still doesn't change the fact that none of what happens is actually canon to the films, because again, it takes place in Ichiro's head.


I'm saying that everything that happens while Ichiro is awake is set in the same universe as the rest of the Showa Godzilla movies. Obviously all of the monster action that occurs in this film is set in Ichiro's dreamscape.


Mr. Jorzilla wrote:The simple fact is, this movie makes the most sense as a 'real-world' film about a Godzilla fan. Whether or not that was the film makers intention, it certainly has become the modern interpretation of the film.


A reinterpretation propagated by G-Fan Magazine and The Official Godzilla Compendium and lapped up by a handful of North American fans is hardly "the modern interpretation," whatever that means. All that shows is that Godzilla fans need to stop taking J.D. Lees' musings as canon.


Mr. Jorzilla wrote:You are free to disagree, but I'd like to see the same evidence from your end rather than this argument about the film being consistent the movies that came before.


By "being consistent the movies that came before" do you mean being set in the same universe as the previous Godzilla movies? Because consistency is hardly a trait of the Showa Series. Tones change wildly from one movie to the next, cities are magically rebuilt year after year, actors frequently reappear as different characters than they played before, Minilla doesn't grow in 30 years, nobody believes Dr. Mafune when he claims there's a living dinosaur, etc. None of that means that any of the Showa films are set in their own self-contained universe apart from the rest.

From a storytelling perspective, the only consistent factor of the nine films prior to this is that they feature Godzilla and they're set in Japan. Godzilla's Revenge doesn't break that pattern at all. It's the tenth entry in what would end up being a series of 15 Godzilla films. Like the eight sequels that preceded it, by default, it's set in the same universe where Godzilla exists unless the filmmakers consciously and clearly indicate that it's not. Honda and Sekizawa very easily could have done that here if they wanted to craft a meta story (a single line from Gabara mocking Ichiro for watching Godzilla movies would have sufficed), but it simply doesn't happen.

If you really want a postmodern perspective on the Revenge narrative that was obviously never intended by the filmmakers, consider this: In King Kong vs. Godzilla, Godzilla becomes a media sensation immediately upon reappearing. One of the characters (in the Japanese version) mentions that Godzilla has inspired the development of a movie. Therefore, Ichiro lives in a world where Godzilla rampages and there are Godzilla movies! :P
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby walshiam » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:21 pm

Still, everything said is hypothetical when considering there was no "real" evidence of monsters existing outside a child's imagination. The source of his imagination was never explained. The thing to remember is that his fantasies were as real to him as the "real-life" crooks that kidnapped him. They were the true monsters of the film.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:29 pm

So basically you still didn't provide evidence that it actually takes place in the same universe, slammed G Fan and JD Lees like that's relevant to the argument (hint: it's not), and said it's my word against yours. If that's the only criteria, my interpretation wins out for me, and a lot of other people as well.
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Re: TALKBACK #10: All Monsters Attack

Postby Benjamin Haines » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:59 pm

Mr. Jorzilla wrote:G Fan and JD Lees like that's relevant to the argument (hint: it's not)


Yes, it is. The Official Godzilla Compendium and G-Fan have both propagated this reinterpretation of the film. Large chunks of Godzilla fandom have a tendency to eat up the musings of other fans and projecting them onto the existing movies as if they're canon, but that's all it really amounts to: fan fiction, no different from the "interpretation" that King Kong was retreating from Godzilla. It certainly wasn't Ishiro Honda, Shinichi Sekizawa, Tomoyuki Tanaka or anyone else involved in making the film who suggested that Godzilla's Revenge of all things was some kind of self-aware meta film, either in the movie or in the press.

What on-screen and/or in-dialogue evidence is there that Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster is set in the same world as Monster Zero? None. Is there any evidence in Godzilla vs. Gigan that it's set in a world where the events of Godzilla vs. Hedorah have happened? No there isn't. Does that mean those movies must be set in their own self-contained universes by default? If not, then why hold Godzilla's Revenge to a different standard? Does the fact that all of the monster scenes happen in Ichiro's dreams confuse people, or is it really just a desire to think of the movie's shortcomings as positive traits? I'm thinking it's probably the latter, as it really seems like it's just the fans of this particular film who have latched onto this revisionist interpretation of it. What do you think?
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