TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Discuss the original series of Godzilla films! From "Terror of Tokyo" to Puppy-faced Super-hero, the Showa Era had something for everyone!

Moderator: Controllers

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Gman2887 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:45 am

The only one I really agree with regarding your complaints is the children on the island bit at the end. It felt like a last minute attempt to give the characters something to do while Godzilla gets silked. The rest I buy. I thought Torahotta and Kumiyama's fate were quite fitting. Getting killed by another giant creature while attempting to make money of another had a sense of irony to it. I can buy the fisherman being able to float the egg to shore and I'm not convinced Mothra actually could get the egg back to the island herself. It's about as large as she is and she had a hard enough time dragging Godzilla along. I can understand why the Shobijin asked for help there.
Image
User avatar
Gman2887
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:11 am
Location: Behind You

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:06 pm

Mothra doesn't just snatch the egg back for the same reason God in Genesis doesn't stop Adam/Eve from eating the apple. People make their own choices and have to live with the consequences. "Give us back the egg or terrible tragedy will befall you."

As for Godzilla not pursuing the egg further, Godzilla's VERY animalistic in this movie. He attacks two separate buildings as though they were foes because one falls on him and one gets in his way when he slips. He forgets about the egg the same way a dog might forget about a stick if there's something that distracts it.

As for Kumiyama and Torrahotta, while maybe their demise could have been saved for later, at least they GET a demise. I suppose things could have been changed such that their demise comes at the end in the battle between Mothra's larvae and Godzilla, but it's something I'm very willing to forgive given the excellently executed previous 70 minutes of film.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18859
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Xenorama » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:11 pm

of course, why is Godzilla even after the egg in the first place? because he's the bad monster, not just an "animal". there's never a reason stated for him trying to destroy the egg. he just has to because it's there? I can even understand why he'd go after buildings, as they aren't natural. but animals don't just destroy eggs on whims.

I also agree about the end of the movie feeling tacked on, as I posted earlier but it can be repeated here- http://xenorama.blogspot.com/2011/06/en ... thing.html .
User avatar
Xenorama
Monster 01
 
Posts: 3027
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:10 pm
Location: L77

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Xenorama wrote:of course, why is Godzilla even after the egg in the first place? because he's the bad monster, not just an "animal". there's never a reason stated for him trying to destroy the egg. he just has to because it's there? I can even understand why he'd go after buildings, as they aren't natural. but animals don't just destroy eggs on whims.

You're trying to apply a set of rational thought processes on a mutated dinosaur born from radioactive fire who can't be stopped by conventional weaponry.

Besides which, just because Godzilla's at his most animalistic here doesn't mean he is JUST an animal. That's not what I meant. He just has more raw animalism and aggression here than he does in most other films.

OR flip it around, and Godzilla is super duper smart. When he goes to try to finish Mothra off she lifts up, hits him in the face and he tumbles back into the pit of poison powder. He winds up thinking, "Not worth it to do it again" and just walks away.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18859
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Gman2887 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:46 pm

I think there's an equal amount of rationalizing going on with both sides of the argument. I admit, Godzilla's interest and then loss of interest is a little strange, but it never sticks out enough to consider a major plot hole. Personally, Godzilla comes off as fairly mindless in this movie anyway. The "force of nature" title sticks out here more than it did in the Heisei movies. It's not bad thing though. It works well for the film.
Image
User avatar
Gman2887
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:11 am
Location: Behind You

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby william newell » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:11 am

jellydonut25 wrote:Mothra doesn't just snatch the egg back for the same reason God in Genesis doesn't stop Adam/Eve from eating the apple. People make their own choices and have to live with the consequences. "Give us back the egg or terrible tragedy will befall you."

As for Godzilla not pursuing the egg further, Godzilla's VERY animalistic in this movie. He attacks two separate buildings as though they were foes because one falls on him and one gets in his way when he slips. He forgets about the egg the same way a dog might forget about a stick if there's something that distracts it.

As for Kumiyama and Torrahotta, while maybe their demise could have been saved for later, at least they GET a demise. I suppose things could have been changed such that their demise comes at the end in the battle between Mothra's larvae and Godzilla, but it's something I'm very willing to forgive given the excellently executed previous 70 minutes of film.


I don't know Jelly, your analogy comparing Mothra's motives to Adam and Eve doesn't make sense to me. If that were the case, wouldn't she refuse to help regardless of any pleas made? "You made your bed now lie in it"...Perhaps if Kumiyama and Torrahotta had met their demise from the caterpillars, and not Godzilla, your example might make more sense to me. And speaking of such, considering that Godzilla was defeated by said caterpillars, one could make the argument that Kumiyama and Torrahotta actually did everyone a favor by NOT returning the egg. I don't know, I still say this story isn't very well thought out and is a bit of a mess...
william newell
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:29 pm
Location: Hamilton, New Jersey

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:34 am

^Well, much like I think in the story of Adam and Eve, God basically says, "Eat from the tree of knowledge and DIE." and then when it happens, He relents...though He punishes Adam and Eve, God is still looking out for them and their progeny as His people...


Mothra and the Shobijin are all, "If you don't help us, screw you." Then when they realize the agony through which people are being put they relent because they are ultimately good and kind-hearted and can't allow people to suffer.



If all that touches too close to a religious nerve or something, it's pretty simple: The Shobijin show themselves to be the bigger people.
Gills.

My DVD/Blu-Ray Collection:
http://jellydonut25.filmaf.com/owned
User avatar
jellydonut25
Controller
 
Posts: 18859
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:18 am
Location: Houston, TX via Buffalo, NY

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:28 am

Gman2887 wrote:I think there's an equal amount of rationalizing going on with both sides of the argument. I admit, Godzilla's interest and then loss of interest is a little strange, but it never sticks out enough to consider a major plot hole. Personally, Godzilla comes off as fairly mindless in this movie anyway. The "force of nature" title sticks out here more than it did in the Heisei movies. It's not bad thing though. It works well for the film.


Yeah, Godzilla is very clumsy. He attacks the egg early on and then Mothra drags him a considerable distance away before dying.

There are two things about this movie I really appreciate
1) Mothra is very well done and her fight with G is engaging, much more so than her Heisei counterparts.
2) The military attacks on Goji are fanastic and very clever. Godzilla's trek across the countryside and subsequent electrocution is just fun to watch.
Image
Kaiju Transmissions Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaijutransmissionspodcast
User avatar
Hybrid Gojira
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:07 am

Hybrid Gojira wrote:There are two things about this movie I really appreciate
1) Mothra is very well done and her fight with G is engaging, much more so than her Heisei counterparts.
2) The military attacks on Goji are fanastic and very clever. Godzilla's trek across the countryside and subsequent electrocution is just fun to watch.

The best Mothra ever. And the military attacks against Godzilla are arguably the best ever filmed.
User avatar
Russzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:31 pm
Location: London, KY via Boston/Philadelphia

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby msunz27 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:36 pm

Happy 50th to one of Toho's classics!
msunz27
Godzillasaurus
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:35 pm

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby CWSmith » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:34 am

Happy birthday indeed^

This movie rocks so hard. It ages like fine wine and I love it more every time I see it. The original is a more important movie, but I think as pure entertainment, this is the absolute pinnacle of the series. Godzilla's best design, Mothra's best design. Compelling human characters that you actually care about and root for outside the monster action scenes. A competent military. Great villains. Great music (even has a couple of ear worm songs from the fairies). Just pure greatness all around.
User avatar
CWSmith
Godzilla Egg
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:20 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby tbeasley » Sun May 11, 2014 8:21 am

I love this movie. It's really the pinnacle of what they were doing back then with these movies. Outside of Harryhausen's work I don't think anyone did it as well or better than Honda and Tsuburaya. The movie plays with and improves ideas done before in Mothra and King Kong vs. Godzilla. I love how the monsters aren't even the true bad guys. Godzilla clumsily wonders around disoriented after the typhoon, only going on a path of destruction after being enraged by us. And of course Mothra only wants to protect her egg from Godzilla and the two 'entrepreneurs' (played fiendishly well by Yoshifumi Tajima and Kenji Sahara). The scene where a dazed Torahata sees Godzilla in the distance is just too good.

And of course, how can't you be moved by this -
phpBB [media]
~ Tyler

Exterminate all rational thought.
User avatar
tbeasley
Godzilla
 
Posts: 998
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: the tbunker

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby KingKaiju » Mon May 12, 2014 1:43 pm

This is one of my all-time favorite Godzilla movies, and one that I can watch over and over again. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but there's something about this film that separates it from the pack for me. I can't tell if it's the more serious tone it takes, the cinematography, or the pace, perhaps it's all of it, but it works so well for me. The movie gives JUST enough time to build us up and let us know what's happening before Godzilla comes out (which I must say has to be one of Godzilla's BEST entrances). Maybe I like the fact that throughout this film, you feel and are aware of, Godzilla's presence throughout the film. Great film though, in my opinion, one of the best in the whole series.
User avatar
KingKaiju
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:25 pm

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Thu May 15, 2014 9:36 am

The only one I really agree with regarding your complaints is the children on the island bit at the end. It felt like a last minute attempt to give the characters something to do while Godzilla gets silked.


I always thought that, but upon rewatch I think it might be a bit deeper than that: the theme of the movie is how humans are selfish when they should be selfless, so in order to complete that plot it's necessary for the main characters to put themselves directly in harms way to help others.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15216
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Gojizilla » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:29 pm

What a delightful experience this film is. I'm always amazed by it. The human drama, the visuals, the score, everything clicks. I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but this may be a definitive example, along with the original, of just what power these films have. I'm very hopeful that Gareth Edwards will pay attention to this picture as he crafts Godzilla 2018.
Image
User avatar
Gojizilla
Little Godzilla
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:32 pm
Location: The South

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Dr Kain » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:26 pm

lhb412 wrote:
The only one I really agree with regarding your complaints is the children on the island bit at the end. It felt like a last minute attempt to give the characters something to do while Godzilla gets silked.


I always thought that, but upon rewatch I think it might be a bit deeper than that: the theme of the movie is how humans are selfish when they should be selfless, so in order to complete that plot it's necessary for the main characters to put themselves directly in harms way to help others.


It could be, but it still feels tacked on at the last minute. I think it is more of how the dude just comes running and screaming that there is still children on the island. If we had been given some insight to that beforehand, it might have worked, but as is, not so much.
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11403
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:27 am

lhb412 wrote:
The only one I really agree with regarding your complaints is the children on the island bit at the end. It felt like a last minute attempt to give the characters something to do while Godzilla gets silked.


I always thought that, but upon rewatch I think it might be a bit deeper than that: the theme of the movie is how humans are selfish when they should be selfless, so in order to complete that plot it's necessary for the main characters to put themselves directly in harms way to help others.


I really like that. I don't necessarily feel like it's all that tacked on, to be honest. Now that you've mentioned the presence of the theme in the scene I can't stop thinking about it. It's kind of brilliant. The main characters and Mothra are both, side-by-side on the island fighting for humanity in smaller and larger senses.
Neat. :D
"We Can't Stop Here, This is Bat Country!"
Check out the Gojicast, because if you won't...who will?
Image
User avatar
MekaGojira3k
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 18288
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:13 am
Location: Ky, USA

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Thu May 21, 2015 1:18 am

My Godzillathon continues - after watching MZ earlier, I finished my night off watching Godzilla vs. The Thing.

This has one of the best Godzilla entrances of all time, maybe THE best entrance. I like this movie - it's mainly a serious film and the villains of the movie are truly sinister - the way Kumayama and Torahata meet their demise is satisfyingly just.

I also LOVE the creativity shown by the military in the early Showa films - the assault on Godzilla in the countryside is brilliantly done.

There's no denying how good this movie is, but I actually like MZ more because of the characters. Ironically enough, watching both films back to back made me realize how much more I like the 65 suit over the 64 (and it used to be the opposite).
Image
Kaiju Transmissions Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaijutransmissionspodcast
User avatar
Hybrid Gojira
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:04 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:08 pm

I always wondered about this but never really got a clear answer. I always assumed that the lady photographer found a piece of Godzilla's skin or part of his spine. Can anyone clarify this?
User avatar
Russzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:31 pm
Location: London, KY via Boston/Philadelphia

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:19 pm

Russzilla wrote:I always wondered about this but never really got a clear answer. I always assumed that the lady photographer found a piece of Godzilla's skin or part of his spine. Can anyone clarify this?


In the context of the story it's definitely a piece of Godzilla. I always wondered why it was multicolored instead of charcoal gray. I guess maybe so it wouldn't be too obvious that early in the movie?
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5310
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Psycho Soldier » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:03 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:
Russzilla wrote:I always wondered about this but never really got a clear answer. I always assumed that the lady photographer found a piece of Godzilla's skin or part of his spine. Can anyone clarify this?


In the context of the story it's definitely a piece of Godzilla. I always wondered why it was multicolored instead of charcoal gray. I guess maybe so it wouldn't be too obvious that early in the movie?


I'll have to check that scene again, but I had the impression it was covered with oil of some kind. Maybe that accounts for it?

EDIT: Watching it now and I take that back - I don't think it's oil. I'm guessing it's just a blemish of some kind, like a freckle. Or maybe Godzilla's subtly multi-coloured.
"Available for your home in 1995, only on Nintendo Ultra 64!"
User avatar
Psycho Soldier
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: Kaneda

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:18 am

Are you referring to the radiated rock they find in the water at the beginning of the movie?
Image
User avatar
Dr Kain
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 11403
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Englewood CO but originally from Buffalo NY

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Psycho Soldier » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:28 am

Dr Kain wrote:Are you referring to the radiated rock they find in the water at the beginning of the movie?


Pretty much, though I do suspect it's a piece of Godzilla's skin.
"Available for your home in 1995, only on Nintendo Ultra 64!"
User avatar
Psycho Soldier
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: Kaneda

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:57 am

Bruticus wrote:EDIT: Watching it now and I take that back - I don't think it's oil. I'm guessing it's just a blemish of some kind, like a freckle. Or maybe Godzilla's subtly multi-coloured.


That's what I always assumed. When you examine something closely you see all sorts of colors and details that are completely lost in normal view.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15216
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:21 am

Bruticus wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:Are you referring to the radiated rock they find in the water at the beginning of the movie?


Pretty much, though I do suspect it's a piece of Godzilla's skin.

Wikipedia says it's a piece of Godzilla's skin. I was just always curious because of the colors on that piece from Godzilla that they found.
User avatar
Russzilla
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:31 pm
Location: London, KY via Boston/Philadelphia

PreviousNext

Return to The Showa Era: 1954-1975

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests