TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Jorzilla » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:07 am

I just realized this today, but watching the Japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla was the last item on my Godzilla-movie bucket list. This is a strange feeling.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:28 am

Jorzilla wrote:I just realized this today, but watching the Japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla was the last item on my Godzilla-movie bucket list. This is a strange feeling.

What about owning Godzilla 1985? I don't have anything resembling a legitimate release of that film.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Jorzilla » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:43 am

jellydonut25 wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:I just realized this today, but watching the Japanese version of King Kong vs. Godzilla was the last item on my Godzilla-movie bucket list. This is a strange feeling.

What about owning Godzilla 1985? I don't have anything resembling a legitimate release of that film.

I have my original VHS in a garage somewhere. Lack of legitimate sources really is a problem with this particular release, but I have seen it recently (and we will leave it at that).

I guess if I were to get really obsessive I could try to find AIP versions of the Showa movies that I haven't seen either in a long time (Sea Monster, Smog Monster), or ever (DAM, SoG). However, I consider watching the Japanese versions more of a pure experience anyways, so I'm not in a rush.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby tbeasley » Sat May 10, 2014 6:31 am

My Honda Godzilla marathon before the new movie continues with the US cut of King Kong vs. Godzilla. This is the only version of the film I've seen so whenever I do see the original I'm sure it'll be a jarring experience. Honestly I've never been big on this entry, I like the idea of Kong vs. Godzilla and I see how it influences later (and for me, better) films in the series but I imagine when I do see the original some things will still rub me the wrong way.

I think a lot of the Farou Island scenes are odd. Some are simply products of being made in the 1960s (dark skin paint for the natives, handing out cigarettes) but the treatment of animals real and fake has bothered me even as a kid. The poor lizard is swung around, thrown off a cliff and then shot. And then you have using a real octopus to bring a monster life, something I see as rather disappointing (and awful - don't get me started on slurpasaurs).

The train sequence involving Godzilla is a good one until Fumiko flops around like a dying salmon in a creek while Godzilla approaches, only to be rescued by her boyfriend. It's good to know women would be given better roles in further installments.

So that's about it. I do enjoy the movie, the final battle is very entertaining, I just don't find it as strong as other films in the 60s like Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidorah, Astro-Monster, etc. Or maybe I just need to see the Japanese version.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Goji 84 » Sat May 10, 2014 3:15 pm

Destroysall wrote:I personally don't like the International dub of the film


The international dub and version of KKvG are MIA, and remains the only unreleased Showa-era Godzilla dub. All that's available are the trailer, and advertising materials. The dub for the Universal version was recorded by Ryder Sound here in the U.S.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby GFan » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:47 am

So, I finally got to see Jû jin yuki otoko (subtitled, no less!!!), and just happened to watch KKvsG right after...
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Has anyone else noticed how similar MONSTER SNOWMAN's suit is to King Kong in KKvsG!? It looks to me as if they used the same costume, and just reworked the head. Maybe I'm just crazy, but that could explain why the KK suit looks so crappy and un-gorilla like. It kind of blew my mind. :shock:

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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby MekaGojira3k » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:57 am

They look really similar, but I think the Kong is new. I'm guessing just because I doubt a suit made in 55' survived well enough into 1962 to be used.
I really love the Half-Human costume, though. Easily the best Ape-like costume they did.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Geno » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:06 pm

I really love the comedic approach to this movie. Differentiates it well enough from the other Godzilla movies from the time.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Sat May 23, 2015 1:35 am

I haven't seen the Japanese version of this film in a while, but I did watch the dubbed version tonight.

I like the voices in the dub - they suit all the characters well. The American cut offers some really frustrating - and unintentionally hilarious - additional scenes. The over-explanation of EVERYTHING in the film is really frustrating, but some of it is worth some laughs if you can run with it that way. Godzilla initial landfall scene feels neutered from what I remember about the Japanese version - Ifukube's score is greatly missed in that specific sequence. Godzilla's appearance, the scene where he falls into the pit, and Kong's short rampage in the city are well staged. And yes, the suits for both monsters are bad. Kong looks terrible and the Godzilla suit is a little too bulky at times - you can see the costume folds. I do like the G design from some angles, but from others he look kinda derpy. Still, there are some GREAT moments in this film, namely Kong stuffing a tree down Godzilla's throat and the destruction of the castle at the very end. It's still a middle of the road Godzilla movie for me.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Dr Kain » Mon May 25, 2015 10:04 am

I don't mind the English version, but I feel it takes the movie down a few pegs thanks to the awful exposition news scenes and the music. Unfortunately, after getting the BD from Universal, the video quality is just so much better that I would rather watch that version over the Region 2 DVD I have, and deal with the news scenes.

Thankfully, Tako is awesome in both versions.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Mon May 25, 2015 2:35 pm

Dr Kain wrote:I don't mind the English version, but I feel it takes the movie down a few pegs thanks to the awful exposition news scenes and the music. Unfortunately, after getting the BD from Universal, the video quality is just so much better that I would rather watch that version over the Region 2 DVD I have, and deal with the news scenes.

Thankfully, Tako is awesome in both versions.


Yeah, the exposition was fine at the beginning but later on it really became more annoying than anything.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Tue May 26, 2015 9:54 pm

I don't think the Americanization deserves the bad rap it's gotten. If anything, it often substitutes the Japanese version's intentional comedy for unintentional comedy. Your mileage may vary.

The worst thing they do is remove what is one of Ifukube's best scores.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby walshiam » Wed May 27, 2015 12:18 am

I'm a HUGE Ifukube fan, however, Universal's stock scores actually benefited the action scenes quite well.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Wed May 27, 2015 8:38 am

I actually like a lot of the early Godzilla dubs - the stuff released in the 90's/00's is mostly terrible by comparison (at least when comparing the quality of the voice actors).

I'd agree with Walsh that Universal's music is fine here...actually I think it works pretty well.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed May 27, 2015 11:09 pm

walshiam wrote:I'm a HUGE Ifukube fan, however, Universal's stock scores actually benefited the action scenes quite well.

WOO! I'm not the only one.

Maybe this is a case of the nostalgia goggles clouding my vision, but there are legitimately scenes where I feel the US score works better. Not a ton, but I also don't think the US score DETRACTS from the viewing experience, so I kinda call it a wash there.

The newsroom stuff hurts, but honestly, I prefer "The...CORNS!" to just about anything in the Japanese cut. Sorry purists. This is one where I don't think the Japanese cut is a vast improvement....in fact, I think Gojira might be the only film with a substantially different US version where the Japanese cut is a superior film for me. I mean, Raids Again is blah in either cut, but at least the US cut gives us hilarious dinosaur lessons. 85's US cut moves at a faster pace and brings in more Cold War elements that I like, and G2K's US cut is just flat-out BETTER. Go USA! You've done good in editing Godzilla films!
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Dr Kain » Thu May 28, 2015 12:24 pm

My problem with the Universal music is not the music itself, but where it is used. The Creature from the Black Lagoon theme is NOT battle music. As such, it hampers the energy from the fight between Kong and Godzilla.

The 85 cut is atrocious. They completely ****ed up the scenes with the Russian commander as it is an insult to hi's sacrifice and to the writers of the movie. Toho did the right thing by keeping both parties neutral and then the dumbasses at New World had to go and be funny, thinking changing this to make the Russians evil was a good thing. **** YOU NEW WORLD!!!!!!

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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby walshiam » Thu May 28, 2015 1:16 pm

It wasn't the battle that was the focus of the scenes. It was the monsters themselves. That's what makes the Universal music so fitting for tis film. They were masters of thrill through their music long before Ifukube was. The monster music from the 40's and 50's was as much a spookfest as the monsters themselves and was every bit as mood setting.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu May 28, 2015 2:01 pm

Dr Kain wrote:The 85 cut is atrocious. They completely ****ed up the scenes with the Russian commander as it is an insult to hi's sacrifice and to the writers of the movie. Toho did the right thing by keeping both parties neutral and then the dumbasses at New World had to go and be funny, thinking changing this to make the Russians evil was a good thing. **** YOU NEW WORLD!!!!!!

I think you mean they made it ten times more awesome by exposing the true colors of that filthy commie "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!".
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:02 am

walshiam wrote:It wasn't the battle that was the focus of the scenes. It was the monsters themselves. That's what makes the Universal music so fitting for tis film. They were masters of thrill through their music long before Ifukube was. The monster music from the 40's and 50's was as much a spookfest as the monsters themselves and was every bit as mood setting.


It doesn't matter, the music can make or break a scene and a battle with poor music is a poor battle, which is what it is without Ifukube's score.

Hedorah is a prime example of a movie that could have been spectacular ruined by a down right dreadful soundtrack.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby MekaGojira3k » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:10 am

Dr Kain wrote:
walshiam wrote:It wasn't the battle that was the focus of the scenes. It was the monsters themselves. That's what makes the Universal music so fitting for tis film. They were masters of thrill through their music long before Ifukube was. The monster music from the 40's and 50's was as much a spookfest as the monsters themselves and was every bit as mood setting.


It doesn't matter, the music can make or break a scene and a battle with poor music is a poor battle, which is what it is without Ifukube's score.

Hedorah is a prime example of a movie that could have been spectacular ruined by a down right dreadful soundtrack.


What would you have wanted? Ifukube?

Manabe's score is PERFECT. It fits the film like a glove. Even if Manabe didn't score it, it'd need something equally as strange.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Dr Kain » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:32 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
Dr Kain wrote:
walshiam wrote:It wasn't the battle that was the focus of the scenes. It was the monsters themselves. That's what makes the Universal music so fitting for tis film. They were masters of thrill through their music long before Ifukube was. The monster music from the 40's and 50's was as much a spookfest as the monsters themselves and was every bit as mood setting.


It doesn't matter, the music can make or break a scene and a battle with poor music is a poor battle, which is what it is without Ifukube's score.

Hedorah is a prime example of a movie that could have been spectacular ruined by a down right dreadful soundtrack.


What would you have wanted? Ifukube?

Manabe's score is PERFECT. It fits the film like a glove. Even if Manabe didn't score it, it'd need something equally as strange.


Of course I would have rathered had Ifukube. The man knows how to make music in battle scenes.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Benjamin Haines » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:36 pm

Dr Kain wrote:
MekaGojira3k wrote:What would you have wanted? Ifukube?

Manabe's score is PERFECT. It fits the film like a glove. Even if Manabe didn't score it, it'd need something equally as strange.


Of course I would have rathered had Ifukube. The man knows how to make music in battle scenes.


Toho's 1971 Japanese trailer for Godzilla vs. Hedorah actually featured several stock cues by Akira Ifukube, including "Volcano" from Expo '70 a full year before that track was utilized in Godzilla vs. Gigan.

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It works as trailer music but Ifukube's style really would not have suited Godzilla vs. Hedorah. Riichiro Manabe's themes embody that film's bizarre trippiness perfectly.

On the other hand, there are some movies that I wouldn't want to watch without Ifukube's themes and King Kong vs. Godzilla is one of them.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Psycho Soldier » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:31 am

I have mixed views on KKvG's music. I like Ifukube's themes, but - maybe it's just the stereo mix - they can sound a bit thin. I have to crank the volume a bit to feel them. On the other hand, the US stock music sounds brawnier, and some of it works quite well. But sometimes I find it over the top compared to the action on screen.

Benjamin Haines wrote:On the other hand, there are some movies that I wouldn't want to watch without Ifukube's themes and King Kong vs. Godzilla is one of them.


Ifukube makes the '90s films more watchable, especially MG2 and Destoroyah. (I doubt he could have rescued SpaceGodzilla, though.)
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:55 pm

I'm not sure how often the art forum is frequented or not these days but I wanted to cross-post this commissioned painting of 1962 Kong I just finished the other day because I'm pretty proud of it.

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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Jared » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:26 am

lhb412 wrote:I don't think the Americanization deserves the bad rap it's gotten. If anything, it often substitutes the Japanese version's intentional comedy for unintentional comedy. Your mileage may vary.

Exactly. I think both versions are about on-par with eachother.

That said, I find the film is just average overall. There's nothing particularly striking or imaginative about the story, unlike Sekizawa's later works.
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