TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby jellydonut25 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:58 pm

Dr Kain wrote:Yeah, sorry, but the Jp cut will always be superior because that is also how Toho intended it to be seen.

That's flawed.
Is the G2K Japanese cut better just because it was the way Toho intended it?
Are the special editions of Star Wars better just because Lucas claims they are the way he always intended?
Is it better watching those movies in Episode order as opposed to release date order just because that's what Lucas claims he intended?
Is the director's cut of Aliens better just because it's longer?

Not everything is "better" JUST because it's the way things were intended.

Also, I don't know why you're griping about funnier lines being added to a movie that's a COMEDY. So, there's a few extra jokes....they're FUNNY...and they're FUNNIER than someone holding up the phone to the wrong ear.
I suppose that's debatable, but to me, the very notion that it's debatable means that the Toho version isn't automatically superior.

I could see the music argument, though I really REALLY disagree personally. I feel like this is one of Ifukube's lesser efforts, with the music not often fitting the action on the screen.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby DannyBeane » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:38 am

Case in point if someone took Peter Jackson's King Kong and released a special edition version where they cut out an hour and a half, I'd watch the hell out of that film. I would easily consider that to be better than Peter Jackson's unintended version.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby ILL GREEN » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:41 am

I agree the Japanese version is better. It was more grim and dramatic and the Ifukube scores were fitting. I can see how some prefer the US version due to childhood memories, but an open mind and understanding of japanese culture and customs, one can really experience the movie as intended.

The US is a fun movie indeed but its always good to go to the source, the root of it all.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Gman2887 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:51 pm

See I always felt the Japanese version embraced its goofiness a little more which is why I prefer it.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:08 pm

I have seen both versions, but I am under the impression my subbed version has a lackluster translation. That being said, I like Ikfukube's score and find it perfectly fitting. The stock music in the American version is also fitting and no doubt it has some hilarious laughs (the infamous "small brain" scene).

Eh, I'd prefer the Japanese version if only because I'm a purist and the US version makes no real improvements that I'm aware of. Whereas the US version of G85, as bad as it is, makes some edits that improve the pacing and removes some terrible effects shots, I don't think that happens here.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby eabaker » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:55 pm

Gman2887 wrote:See I always felt the Japanese version embraced its goofiness a little more which is why I prefer it.


Yeah, the Japanese version feel to me like a comedy which uses a handful of more serious Godzilla scenes as a point of contrast, whereas the American version feels like it's trying to present a serious movie (thanks to the dry-as-dirt newsroom scenes), then totally undercuts those efforts with a dub track that feels like it's almost making fun of the original footage.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:12 am

In short, the Japanese version is the superior version between the two. I have never went back to the US version after watching the Japanese version.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Legion » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:22 pm

ILL GREEN wrote:I agree the Japanese version is better. It was more grim and dramatic...


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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Bluejira » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Russzilla wrote:In short, the Japanese version is the superior version between the two. I have never went back to the US version after watching the Japanese version.

I rarely watch the Japanese version. Just grew up with the American version so I know it by heart. The Japanese version is hilarious though and the opening 20 minutes makes a lot more sense.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:44 am

Bluejira wrote:
Russzilla wrote:In short, the Japanese version is the superior version between the two. I have never went back to the US version after watching the Japanese version.

I rarely watch the Japanese version. Just grew up with the American version so I know it by heart. The Japanese version is hilarious though and the opening 20 minutes makes a lot more sense.

There are very, very few English dubbed Godzilla movies that I will pop in to watch. This isn't one of them though. I too grew up watching the American version of KKvsG, (didn't have much choice as that was all there was at the time) but as I got older, then got my hands on the Japanese version, I just found that version to be so much better. And I can definitely do without the Creature from the Black Lagoon music.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby william newell » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:11 am

Something that I've thus far been unable to confirm, perhaps someone here can verify it. It's often stated that "Godzilla vs. Megalon" was the first G movie to debut in prime time. However, I believe that this film was actually first as I remember T.V. Guide made a rather big deal of it, going so far as to having a large banner across the bottom of the first page of listings (which would have been on a Saturday as that was the day it premiered)of Toho Kong in a reclined position, and a small "Special Notice" type of promo on the same page as the actual time listing. I seem to want to remember that some mention being made that this showing was a big deal because, up to that time, it could not be shown on television because of right's issues with the King Kong character. It was also the first and only time (up until recently) that this movie was shown in it's entirety as subsequent airings were edited. Sometimes the luring and trapping Godzilla in the pit scenes were cut, other times it was most of Kong's attack on Tokyo that was trimmed. I'm thinking this would have been around '72 or '73. Anybody able to shed some light on this? Or, does anyone know of anybody who collects vintage T.V. Guides? Sure would like to find out if my memory is correct...
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:01 pm

william newell wrote:Something that I've thus far been unable to confirm, perhaps someone here can verify it. It's often stated that "Godzilla vs. Megalon" was the first G movie to debut in prime time. However, I believe that this film was actually first as I remember T.V. Guide made a rather big deal of it, going so far as to having a large banner across the bottom of the first page of listings (which would have been on a Saturday as that was the day it premiered)of Toho Kong in a reclined position, and a small "Special Notice" type of promo on the same page as the actual time listing. I seem to want to remember that some mention being made that this showing was a big deal because, up to that time, it could not be shown on television because of right's issues with the King Kong character. It was also the first and only time (up until recently) that this movie was shown in it's entirety as subsequent airings were edited. Sometimes the luring and trapping Godzilla in the pit scenes were cut, other times it was most of Kong's attack on Tokyo that was trimmed. I'm thinking this would have been around '72 or '73. Anybody able to shed some light on this? Or, does anyone know of anybody who collects vintage T.V. Guides? Sure would like to find out if my memory is correct...

I never recalled or heard of KKvsG airing on a Prime Time channel back then. Megalon was the only G movie that I ever saw aired on one of the Big 3 networks back in the day.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby william newell » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:19 pm

^^ I REALLY need to find some kind of T.V. Guide archive as I think this will be the only way I can find out for sure...
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Bluejira » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:08 pm

It would have to be before mid 73 if it happened or it would be in my Godzilla/Monster movie scrapbook.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby nicecubes » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:30 pm

Always enjoyed the film...but the Kong suit is really incompetent. Seeing it on the big screen last year made it even worse. There were just some Showa suits that were so poorly made that they boggled the mind.As for both KONGS...it was as if no one ever even looked at the original or even a picture of a gorilla.yikes...
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:05 pm

^^ For as great as Toho was in making some awesome looking kaiju suits, they really dropped the ball when it came to making gorilla suits. They improved when they made the Kong suit for KKE, but how do you try to pass this off as a serious looking ape face. :lol: :lol:

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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby lhb412 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:41 am

Just watched Universal's new Blu-Ray. I really love this film. I know I rag on it a little in this thread, but it's largely just a problem of comparison: the basic plot is done better in Mothra vs. Godzilla, the comedy is better interwoven into the adventure in Ghidorah, and Toho does a better Kong in King Kong Escapes ... but, you know, just relax a bit and it's a really fun movie.

But there is something this movie does exceptionally well, perhaps the best: a lot of care seems to have been given to scenes centering entirely on Godzilla. Emerging from the iceberg, the assault on the arctic base, attacking the train, luring Godzilla into the poison gas pit. This is some of the best footage of Godzilla in the entire series.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby MekaGojira3k » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:17 am

The iceberg sequence is one of my favorite showa Godzilla scenes period. I love the build up and the reveal from afar.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby king_ghidorah » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:26 am

Just watched my blu ray copy this morning. I feel like this is another example of a film where the perfect version is somewhere in the middle between the Japanese and American versions. I like a lot of the American version (the dubbing, even some of the music selection, the editing) but the newsroom scenes did seem really grating this morning when I watched it.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:57 am

The newsroom scenes never really seemed grating to me, but they feel so obviously tacked on that it's hard to not notice them.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Destroysall » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:00 pm

I personally don't like the International dub of the film (like I don't with a few other G-films), and after seeing both versions of the film, the Japanese version is a lot more fluid in terms of continuity. Perhaps it is the reason I have grown to like the Japanese version a bit more. I still love the AIP dub on my Goodtimes VHS release however. :)
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Jorzilla » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:00 pm

I watched the Japanese version the the other day. My first thoughts were around the condition of the film in certain areas. I had heard about the issues, but damn was it depressing in the monster scenes.

The second thing was in the Japanese version, they kind of, lose track of Godzilla. Unlike the Heisei series where they had these giant war rooms, the military legitimately at one point go: he's in this general area. Instead of thinking that was dumb, I actually thought it was really cool! Godzilla and Kong were kind like Tornadoes: Okay, let the people know to get out of the way, we'll see what we can do. The other point I liked was the LACK of Godzilla destruction. We know what's he's capable of based on the first movies, but this is the only film I feel where I realized there is not real legitimate reason for Godzilla just to head into cities aside from the destruction porn. If Godzilla was real he might just show up in Tohoku and hang out in the mountains for awhile, why not?
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Gwangi » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:54 am

Russzilla wrote:
william newell wrote:Something that I've thus far been unable to confirm, perhaps someone here can verify it. It's often stated that "Godzilla vs. Megalon" was the first G movie to debut in prime time. However, I believe that this film was actually first as I remember T.V. Guide made a rather big deal of it, going so far as to having a large banner across the bottom of the first page of listings (which would have been on a Saturday as that was the day it premiered)of Toho Kong in a reclined position, and a small "Special Notice" type of promo on the same page as the actual time listing. I seem to want to remember that some mention being made that this showing was a big deal because, up to that time, it could not be shown on television because of right's issues with the King Kong character. It was also the first and only time (up until recently) that this movie was shown in it's entirety as subsequent airings were edited. Sometimes the luring and trapping Godzilla in the pit scenes were cut, other times it was most of Kong's attack on Tokyo that was trimmed. I'm thinking this would have been around '72 or '73. Anybody able to shed some light on this? Or, does anyone know of anybody who collects vintage T.V. Guides? Sure would like to find out if my memory is correct...


I never recalled or heard of KKvsG airing on a Prime Time channel back then. Megalon was the only G movie that I ever saw aired on one of the Big 3 networks back in the day.



Yes and no. As a kid growing up in the 1970s, I remember that our local ABC station (KABC Channel 7 Los Angeles), would air a movie right after Monday Night Football. For us in the West Coast, when a game ended, it was still prime-time. And KK vs. G, was one of the movies they showed and T.V. Guide had a great advertisement photo filling up one page.

However, since it was a local thing, it really does not count as a national prime-time event. Megalon was really the only one that had that distinction in my life time (if one does not count GINO).
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:26 am

Gwangi wrote:
Russzilla wrote:
william newell wrote:Something that I've thus far been unable to confirm, perhaps someone here can verify it. It's often stated that "Godzilla vs. Megalon" was the first G movie to debut in prime time. However, I believe that this film was actually first as I remember T.V. Guide made a rather big deal of it, going so far as to having a large banner across the bottom of the first page of listings (which would have been on a Saturday as that was the day it premiered)of Toho Kong in a reclined position, and a small "Special Notice" type of promo on the same page as the actual time listing. I seem to want to remember that some mention being made that this showing was a big deal because, up to that time, it could not be shown on television because of right's issues with the King Kong character. It was also the first and only time (up until recently) that this movie was shown in it's entirety as subsequent airings were edited. Sometimes the luring and trapping Godzilla in the pit scenes were cut, other times it was most of Kong's attack on Tokyo that was trimmed. I'm thinking this would have been around '72 or '73. Anybody able to shed some light on this? Or, does anyone know of anybody who collects vintage T.V. Guides? Sure would like to find out if my memory is correct...


I never recalled or heard of KKvsG airing on a Prime Time channel back then. Megalon was the only G movie that I ever saw aired on one of the Big 3 networks back in the day.



Yes and no. As a kid growing up in the 1970s, I remember that our local ABC station (KABC Channel 7 Los Angeles), would air a movie right after Monday Night Football. For us in the West Coast, when a game ended, it was still prime-time. And KK vs. G, was one of the movies they showed and T.V. Guide had a great advertisement photo filling up one page.

However, since it was a local thing, it really does not count as a national prime-time event. Megalon was really the only one that had that distinction in my life time (if one does not count GINO).

Yeah. That Saturday night airing on NBC was/is the only time ever that a Japanese made Godzilla movie was aired in Primetime. Still remember it like it was yesterday. When watching TV shows on Saturday nights was worth it.
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Re: TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

Postby Russzilla » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:31 am

Jorzilla wrote:I watched the Japanese version the the other day. My first thoughts were around the condition of the film in certain areas. I had heard about the issues, but damn was it depressing in the monster scenes.

The second thing was in the Japanese version, they kind of, lose track of Godzilla. Unlike the Heisei series where they had these giant war rooms, the military legitimately at one point go: he's in this general area. Instead of thinking that was dumb, I actually thought it was really cool! Godzilla and Kong were kind like Tornadoes: Okay, let the people know to get out of the way, we'll see what we can do. The other point I liked was the LACK of Godzilla destruction. We know what's he's capable of based on the first movies, but this is the only film I feel where I realized there is not real legitimate reason for Godzilla just to head into cities aside from the destruction porn. If Godzilla was real he might just show up in Tohoku and hang out in the mountains for awhile, why not?

I grew up on the AIP version of KKvsG. But when I discovered the Japanese version of it, I didn't look back. I loved how the military kept trying to come up with ways to either stop, slow down, or even keep Godzilla from getting into Tokyo also.
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