TALKBACK #3: King Kong vs. Godzilla

[eabaker]

[Dr Kain]

For me, the worst part of the dub to the movie are these two things:

1. The annoying science with the brain scene
2. They completely threw out Ifukube's score for stock scores that do not even fit with the movie

[lhb412]

^Honestly, the inserted American scenes crack me up more than any of the comedic stuff from the Japanese version.

[RaymondBurr]

"Godzilla has a brain about *this* size..."

So good .... almost as good as the "scientist talk" from Godzilla Raids Again

I saw King Kong vs. Godzilla for the first time when I was about 5 years old. It completely exploded my brain with it's awesomeness. I knew Kong, of course. And I had recently discovered Godzilla. Both of them together, well... you know the story.

I like both the American and the Japanese versions. I don't understand the hate on the American version. It is a product of its time and it works great on its own terms. You like Ifukube's score better? That's fine, but the American version is a Universal film, and it sounds like one! The score works perfectly. The monkey suit definitely doesn't hold a candle to O'Brien's Kong... but... I can't help but love it. He looks especially good in his night time rampage scenes

[Dr Kain]

But it is not a Universal movie, it is a Toho one. There is nothing Universal about it. In fact, how did Universal even get the rights to Kong to begin with when RKO owned it?

[jellydonut25]

I dunno, is there something about the stock score that's inappropriate? Does it fundamentally change something? It really doesn't for me, and in fact, the Creature from the Black Lagoon music will ALWAYS be associated with Kong arising from the water after they blow up the raft.

If you consider the film in a bit of a vacuum, I don't think there's anything wrong with the American tinkering with the score...

[Dr Kain]

[jellydonut25]

I'm actually not a fan of Ifukube's work on this film. Different strokes.

[eabaker]

[jellydonut25]

So, just got done watching this. American version last night, Japanese version right now. I prefer the American version by a pretty wide margin.

I find the comedic stuff in the Japanese version to fall pretty flat and the American version to have some of the funnier lines and perhaps even more/better unintentional hilarity. The physical comedy in the Japanese version is probably a touch better...the American version feels a bit neutered in that regard.

And the score...I'm sorry but I think Ifukube's score is all wrong at certain times. ALL. WRONG. It doesn't seem to change up based on what's happening on the screen...from the moment Godzilla and King Kong start fighting until when Kong gets struck by lightning the score is the same, whether they are tussling or there's a break in the action, it's all one constant theme. The music itself is not bad, but it doesn't enhance the mood or the action at all.

Sometimes, the score is spectacular: Godzilla vs. the arctic base, the Kong sleep song, and the airlift music are all great and work well with their scenes. Some of the military prepping the traps and things for Godzilla stuff is good too. The rest, I'd prefer to hear the American version's music used.

The pacing in the Japanese version feels kinda off or something to me too...the editing is bizarre. Take the Seahawk sub sequence. It could be argued that the American version lingers a bit too long on it, but IMHO, the Japanese version cuts away at an awkward time. I also prefer how in the American cut he takes time to get to the Arctic base instead of just apparently coming out of the iceberg right on top of the base more or less. This might just be a preference/what I'm used to from 20+ years of the American version before I ever saw the Japanese cut, but it's kinda odd to me how blindingly fast things jump around from Godzilla to Kong in the Japanese version...like the electric fence part, for one specific example. Sometimes this seems to work, as I know one of my gripes with the American version is that there's a fairly lengthy stretch in the middle third or so where Godzilla kinda disappears from the film, but at other times, it just feels like it's not paced as well as it could be.

End of the day, it's a pretty fun movie. The characters are alright, though Sakurai is really the only one who feels fully fleshed out, but at least they are mostly a colorful, fun bunch. But this falls just outside the favorite zone.

[eabaker]

[metal_bryan]

The US version is one of my favorite Godzilla movies thanks to the hilarious and nostalgic dub. I can quote this movie all day long. I very much enjoyed revisiting it last month as I've been rewatching the series in order. My wife really enjoyed it too.

[jellydonut25]

[metal_bryan]

My corns never lie!

[Psycho Soldier]

Eh, I have to show favour to the Japanese cut. The US cut has its charm (especially in the dubbing, as you guys have noted), but the scenes with the American actors really harm the pacing and entertainment value. There's unintentional humour in them, but mostly I just find them mind-numbing. I appreciate the satirical self-deprecation in the Japanese version, with all the publicity to be reaped from bringing Kong to Japan and having him fight Godzilla. There's a line where someone says they "have bets on the outcome" that really amused me. As someone who once in a while, it immediately resonated with me. Plus, I find the US version's replacement music more distracting and obtrusive than Ifukube's score. Some of the cues are fitting (e.g. the main titles), but others are just generic B-movie cues that don't quite belong. That's my take on things, anyway.

[Dr Kain]

Yeah, sorry, but the Jp cut will always be superior because that is also how Toho intended it to be seen. The music is so much better than what Universal gave us. And they don't have stupid segments of break the fourth wall scientist to talk about the differences between the two monsters. Oh yeah, and the freaking one liners that do not belong in the dialog. I hate it when movies make up their own jokes when there never was a joke in that spot to begin with.

Now to be fair, I have not watched the US version since 1998 on VHS, which is one of the reasons I am picking up the BD as I'm willing to give it another shot. However, it will NEVER be better than the Jp version, and I will gladly buy Toho's BD whenever they release it.

[Xenorama]

There's no breaking of the fourth wall in the US version.

[metal_bryan]

Yeah, the additional footage doesn't look right mixed in with the rest of the movie, but it certainly doesn't break the fourth wall. Misuse of the phrase.

[eabaker]

Right, the newsroom scenes are not addressing the film audience, they are addressing an imaginary television audience within the diegesis.

[Dr Kain]

[H-Man]

Did anyone actually say the American version was objectively better than the Japanese version? You could probably find a way to argue that, but I think everyone here agrees that the Japanese version is pretty much superior.

The difference is that some of us enjoy watching the American version more. I could go either way on this one depending on my mood, but I generally watch the American cut. The Thomas Montgomery-directed scenes are pretty lame, but they add some unintentional laughs and that's OK with me.

[metal_bryan]

I enjoy watching the US version more because it's the one I grew up watching. Nostalgia wins.

[Legion]

[eabaker]

[Gwangi]