TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Outkaster » Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:45 pm

I saw this twice on the Kaiju Christmas Marathon last week. To me this movie is a missed opportunity because the fight scenes were cool ideas but executed poorly because of the interim director. The dubbing of the roar was just really bad. I do have to give it a break as it was a second film. Even though the suit looked funky the black and white aspect really kind of worked well.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Russzilla » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:25 am

Outkaster wrote:I saw this twice on the Kaiju Christmas Marathon last week. To me this movie is a missed opportunity because the fight scenes were cool ideas but executed poorly because of the interim director. The dubbing of the roar was just really bad. I do have to give it a break as it was a second film. Even though the suit looked funky the black and white aspect really kind of worked well.

It wouldn't have been so bad if not for the high speed fight scenes.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:29 am

I actually kinda like the sped-up fight scenes. For me, it's really the lack of excitement on the human drama front that makes this movie a thud for me. Aside from the very end, their lives are never really in danger and they just stare agape at Godzilla. Contrast it with what the cast of Gojira is going through and it's massively different.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Outkaster » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:05 am

That's what happens when they change directors.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Psycho Soldier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:06 pm

The thought crossed my mind today that when we first see Angilas, he's already in mid-combat with Godzilla. I'm trying to think of another example where the monsters are first seen fighting each other, but I'm drawing a blank. Typically, we see the monsters on their own before they cross paths. I can understand why that's done - to build tension up to the conflict(s), and because filmmakers want to give each monster some time to shine - but it's curious that not many other films introduce them like GRA does.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby MekaGojira3k » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:50 pm

Bruticus wrote:The thought crossed my mind today that when we first see Angilas, he's already in mid-combat with Godzilla. I'm trying to think of another example where the monsters are first seen fighting each other, but I'm drawing a blank. Typically, we see the monsters on their own before they cross paths. I can understand why that's done - to build tension up to the conflict(s), and because filmmakers want to give each monster some time to shine - but it's curious that not many other films introduce them like GRA does.



I kind of hope we get another original monster in Godzilla 2, and the movie opens with Godzilla battling him.
1. I like that idea and 2. I'd like them to continue adding new monsters to the roster.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby lhb412 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:10 pm

MekaGojira3k wrote:
Bruticus wrote:I kind of hope we get another original monster in Godzilla 2, and the movie opens with Godzilla battling him.
1. I like that idea and 2. I'd like them to continue adding new monsters to the roster.


With Gareth citing DAM as an inspiration and only three classic monster co-stars licensed I can see the ranks swelling with original kaiju.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Psycho Soldier » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:39 am

MekaGojira3k wrote:I kind of hope we get another original monster in Godzilla 2, and the movie opens with Godzilla battling him.
1. I like that idea and 2. I'd like them to continue adding new monsters to the roster.


I like that, too. I wouldn't mind if they did it with Godzilla and Rodan in mid-fight, but if they did it with G and a new guy, that'd be fun too.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Russzilla » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:26 pm

I was watching Godzilla Raids Again on El Rey Network a couple a weeks ago and this morning on Shout Factory TV and I was just wondering... Was it ever explained why they used Anguirus' roar so often over Godzilla's roar? It would've been nice to hear one last roar of Godzilla's instead of hearing Anguirus' while he's beeing buried by all of those ice cubes. :lol: :lol:
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby The Real McCoy » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:57 pm

I always figured it was because they made them the same species as one another in the English version.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:26 pm

Yeah, it's part of the (ultimately abandoned) plan to SIGNIFICANTLY edit the American version. They were going to make it called like "The Volcano Monsters" or something, and only use the monster footage, and cut together an entirely new story of human scenes, which would explain that the two were the same species, and thus the similar roars.

Also, in general, Godzilla is quieter in the Japanese version, and the American version pumps in extra roars...which was also done in G2K (and I think G85 too)
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby XvGojira » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:41 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:Yeah, it's part of the (ultimately abandoned) plan to SIGNIFICANTLY edit the American version. They were going to make it called like "The Volcano Monsters" or something, and only use the monster footage, and cut together an entirely new story of human scenes, which would explain that the two were the same species, and thus the similar roars.

Also, in general, Godzilla is quieter in the Japanese version, and the American version pumps in extra roars...which was also done in G2K (and I think G85 too)


I don't think 85 had any extra roars. They recut a few things, like how in the Japanese version the Super X is the one to shoot first. But I don't think there's any added roars.

But yeah G2000 totally does and I swear there's some Zilla roars in there. But for the most part I like the sound additions. I watched them back to back recently and the Japanese version has the destruction sound just a little too quite for my tastes.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:16 pm

The American Godzilla roars for G2k were all made for the dub. However it does have a bit of a shriek added in that does resemble the GINO roar.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby lhb412 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:06 pm

But yeah G2000 totally does and I swear there's some Zilla roars in there. But for the most part I like the sound additions. I watched them back to back recently and the Japanese version has the destruction sound just a little too quite for my tastes.


When I watched the Japanese version for the first time some months ago I really missed the beefed up sound effects of the American version. Mike S. and co. we're totally right to redo them.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby eabaker » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:59 pm

Yeah, the beefed up sound design is probably the foremost reason that I favor the American cut of that movie.

EDIT: Just realized that this is kinda vague, since I made the comment in the Raids Again thread, but was replying to a comment about 2000. So, to be clear, I DO NOT favor the Gigantis cut of Raids Again, although I will admit to a certain delight in some of the weirder bits of dialogue. :D
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby tbeasley » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:44 pm

I feel Raids Again has the same problem as Varan, the first half is a lot more engaging than the last. The movie is so oddly structured, there's no buildup to the monster action, Anguirus is defeated halfway through the story and there's another lull until the military takes action against Godzilla. If the action continued after Godzilla burns his opponent to a crisp there might be more excitement but the final product is very bipolar.

I still appreciate a lot in the movie though, Sato's score is jumpy and inspiring, it's fun to pick out faces you'll see in later, greater films in the series, and the animalistic, nighttime fight scenes are really nice. I still feel Godzilla looks best at night and in B&W.

I think Toho was at a weird spot with this movie. It's an immediate cash-in sequel lacking the previous film's director who was more interested in taking on other sci-fi/monster projects. Toho continued in this direction until they decided Godzilla should be their flagship monster after the success of King Kong vs. Godzilla. In a lot of ways that movie set in stone the direction Toho's genre films would take, even if Raids Again was the first 'monster vs. monster' film in the series.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby lhb412 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:29 am

^ but even though in retrospect it doesn't make dramatic sense for Godzilla to defeat his opponent halfway into the movie, when you take a look at all the vs. movies that have followed and go back to GRA that element has novelty to it.

BTW really enjoyed seeing GRA (Gigantis!) on Svengoolie last week, and this is another one of those Godzilla films that's risen in my estimation over the years. Mostly because of the oddball feel of it: after the iconic original but before the franchise formed an identity and style for itself going forward. It's a weird outlier.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:00 am

Ooof.

It's obviously difficult to follow-up a masterpiece with a sequel.
But to do it 5 months later with a different director, writer, composer, and cast?

Godzilla Raids Again never had much of a chance.
Though really where it fails MOST is in the rather simple writing department. The characters are flat an uninteresting, and there's not even really an attempt to develop them at all until the movie is more than half over.
There's no time spent developing characters or a storyline that can propel the human action from scene to scene; we're just thrown right into the Godzilla mix and we don't get much of a breather from it until after he fights Anguirus.
That's when the movie slams to a halt. It's an interesting attempt at a structure: placate audiences looking for some destruction early, then do some character work, then build to a finale. The problem is twofold: one, the character work is not interesting and two, it's not intertwined enough with the kaiju once the fight in Osaka is over. Our characters have moved to Hokaido and are just living their lives. They're dealing with some aftermath of the tragedy, in that they're displaced and working hard to keep their business afloat, but there doesn't feel like much AT STAKE if Godzilla continues to live, and nobody seems to be actively seeking him out to try to do anything about him until he starts sinking some ships again (which all happens off-screen). Thus we have this weird first act portion of the movie, in the running-time-place of the second act, where nothing happens and no interesting character dynamics are built. It's really unfortunate because while obviously lacking in emotion and power, the first 30-40 minutes of the movie clips along at a really good pace and offers up a lot of monster fun.

And honestly, while a lot of what they were able to do in such a short time effects-wise is kind of impressive, matte work and compositing lines that were so seamless in Gojira are baldly obvious here and the rushed nature of the film REALLY shows. It shows even more in the monster scenes, with the under-cranked footage, and though at times it almost actually works, and gives things a borderline stop-motion nightmarish feel, there are a lot of times where it just looks silly. It shows you could perhaps play a bit with the filming speed (or playback speed) to get various different effects, and that might be something really interesting and cool to do, but it wasn't done intentionally here and would never be done again.

The movie is a sum of its parts: some good, some bad, and ultimately just too stilted, awkward and rushed to be much good. It's important as the first Godzilla sequel, the first appearance of Anguirus, the first time Godzilla fights another monster, the first time Honda didn't direct Godzilla (and the first time Ifukube didn't score), and the first (and to date only) time the JSDF defeats Godzilla via conventional weapons with no assistance from another monster (and it IS a really unique and cool way to dispatch the monster), but it shows its flaws too often.

I think I gained a SLIGHT bit of appreciation here, as before I would snap considered this one of THE very worst Godzilla movies, but I'm re-considering that now just due to the novelty and originality of a lot of it, but I also definitely re-confirmed that it's a rather weak entry in the franchise that I'll basically never reach for outside of series re-watches.

Oh and as for the American edit...even worse than I remember. There are a lot of low-hanging-fruit people latch onto with the dub...and God knows I have and did as a kid, but the real shame and real pain is just the general dubbing.
Going for lip-matching you get some SERIOUS malarkey, and not just "banana oil" that everyone points to. There are conversations that make NO SENSE, neither in context of the film nor even just as conversations unto themselves. And despite all this trying to match the lips stuff (A) there are times when lips move and nothing comes out (B) there are times when no lips move and things are said (C) that same thing happens with the kaiju and (D) they don't even attempt to make the dialogue match the on-screen action...so who cares if it matches their lips? It's like "A Bad Lip Reading" dubbed a movie. It's crazy because the same individuals that brought over Gojira and were in charge of KOTM56 brought over GRA and were responsible for the Americanization, but apparently when The Volcano Monsters thing fell apart, instead of getting an actual director and talent to do an English version, they were like "Just do....*wave hand vaguely around*"
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:31 am

I think there are weaknesses here, and it has many of the hallmarks of most sequels (disjointed narrative and ideas that never satisfactorily link up). I still love that, at its heart, it's really just a drama about this fishing cannery. There's this lack of scientific pursuit or firmly rooted importance in the characters (as opposed to Yamane or Serizawa) and the smallness of them has always made them kind of endearing.

For those reasons it's always been a favorite, albeit very mid-tier.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:27 pm

Upon rewatch: this is a movie that really gets better as it goes along, with the finale on the glacier being the highlight. Even the 'human drama' between the Godzilla/Anguirus fight and the final showdown is better than the stuff from the first half of the film.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby GFan » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:13 pm

Watching this tonight and something that really sticks out... this movie is so quiet. With the sound FX & music as sparse as they are it's no wonder the American distributors dubbed-in narration!
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby DannyBeane » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:28 am

GFan wrote:Watching this tonight and something that really sticks out... this movie is so quiet. With the sound FX & music as sparse as they are it's no wonder the American distributors dubbed-in narration!

I actually kinda dig the quietness of this film. Let's you really absorb the destruction going on. I know this film is generally not considered a fan favorite but I really do love this film. I like that the main characters fall outside the usual holy trinity of military/scientists/reporter. They are just employees for a local tuna fishery caught in the middle of a monster rampage.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby william newell » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:52 pm

As for the "high speed" monster fights, I feel that the effect worked fairly well in the battle scenes on the island at the beginning, but once they reach Osaka, the effect just made the miniatures stand out for what they were. Just my opinion, for what it's worth...
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby Giganfan » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:32 am

By default, really, Godzilla Raids Again is one of the most important movies in the entire genre. As only the second movie of it's kind in Japan, and being the first in which you have two monsters fighting each other, you can't deny it's ultimate influence on the rest of the series. It deserves credit as being one of the pioneering movies of the "tokusatsu" style, even though in reality, the film is horribly directed by Motoyoshi Oda, and Masaru Sato's score is practically non-existent, which pains me to say, because Sato, along with Akira Ifukube wound up being a certifiable genius later on.

The fight between Godzilla and Angilas in Osaka, i think, is one of the best fights in the Godzilla series. Angilas unfortunately, doesn't make it to the end of the movie, but nonetheless, Tsuburaya does a great job of bringing him to life, and he remains one of Toho's greatest kaiju creations.

The Godzilla suit in this movie is a prime example of something I've always wanted to discuss with fellow fans about the Godzilla designs over the years. Some of them, like for example, Shoshingeki-Goji (68-72), or most of the Heisei designs are perfectly executed all the way around. However, in the case of say Kingu-Goji (62) Mire-Goji, the GMK design and the one from the Kiryu movies, they look great from one angle, but then, when you get a look at them from another angle, it's like "Ugh! What the hell were they thinking?" I've often wondered if it was the intent of the suit-makers, or was it just something that wasn't even considered. I have a very hard time with all of the suit designs from the Millennium series for that very reason, save for the Final Wars Godzilla, which I think is awesome. The Godzilla that appears in Raids Again is one of those suits where he looks perfect in profile, but very odd and awkward from the front. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there, and see if it inspires any debate.

In the past, I've routinely criticized Godzilla Raids Again for being one of the worst movies in the series. And it's true, director Oda really did a bang-up job with it. But these days, my opinions have been more sympathetic. I appreciate it more for being a trail-blazer, along with the other movies of that particular time-period. Toho was essentially creating the fantasy genre that didn't even exist in Japan at the time, and I'm sure there was much trial-and-error. This movie isn't perfect, even by Godzilla movie standards, but i still believe it deserves our appreciation. Before Godzilla could go on to face Kong, Mothra, Ghidorah, etc. he had to bite, scratch, claw and ultimately fry his best bud, "The Killer of the Living" in what is one intense monster fight. It's interesting to note that in the second Godzilla movie, and the second-to-last Godzilla movie of the Showa era, we are treated to a Godzilla vs. Angilas in both films (though technically, it wasn't Godzilla himself in the 74 film).

I'm a fan of every Godzilla movie, in one way or another. With the exception of GINO 98, every movie in the series offers something that I enjoy. My earliest memories of existence in this world involve Godzilla. He and I have been pals for my entire life, so it's virtually impossible for me to be too mean when considering any of the movies. Godzilla Raids Again may not be the best by any stretch of the imagination, but that scene (in the Japanese version) where Godzilla swats that biplane out of the sky, which I think was an homage to King Kong, is so special to me, even though there is a jump-cut between the plane flying, and Goji swatting.

This stuff is just so cool to me.
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Re: TALKBACK #2: Godzilla Raids Again

Postby H-Man » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:17 pm

Giganfan wrote:In the past, I've routinely criticized Godzilla Raids Again for being one of the worst movies in the series. And it's true, director Oda really did a bang-up job with it. But these days, my opinions have been more sympathetic. I appreciate it more for being a trail-blazer, along with the other movies of that particular time-period. Toho was essentially creating the fantasy genre that didn't even exist in Japan at the time, and I'm sure there was much trial-and-error. This movie isn't perfect, even by Godzilla movie standards, but i still believe it deserves our appreciation.


This was one of my least favorite entries for a long time too. I haven't fully come around on it but I do appreciate it a lot more than I did. It's certainly a step down from the 1954 film and it's not as engaging or exciting or as fun as any of the '60s films, but it's not a terrible movie. Gigantis is pretty awful though but I still prefer to watch that version because it moves a little quicker than the Japanese version.
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