TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILERS -

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Joseph Goodman » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Based on the press, and details that had been revealed in the run-up to this film's release, I was expecting it to be $200 million fan-fiction, and it more than met that expectation... in all the ways I feared. It's a pastiche of moments from the franchise strung together with some of the most awkward, alienating, poorly-written dialogue and characterization I've ever seen in a mainstream film. The script is so carelessly written that one can imagine Mike Dougherty being one of those who holds the attitude, "It's just a Godzilla movie, no one sees those for the characters". The film is almost J.J. Abrams-like in its disinterest in letting story or characterization get in the way of being an old-fashioned ransom note paste-up of fan service setpieces. I can't imagine how this dialogue, or the rushes thereof, were approved, unless it was by Dailan Wanda execs who couldn't understand English well enough to tell how bad it was.

As far as the cast, the only player who made any of this dialogue sound like something an actual human would say was Charles Dance, but he probably says fewer words in the whole picture than I wrote in the previous paragraph. Stranger Things girl barely factors in to the proceedings, Farmiga switches to villain and back with no build-up as if she was a wrestler booked by Vince Russo, and Kyle Chandler has little to do but proclaim exposition. Serizawa continues to be a non-character with no function other than to gaze portentously, fiddle with his watch, and say a few Japanese words, with his sacrifice completely un-earned and un-established by anything the character has done in either film (which has been nothing). It almost goes without saying that I'd have rather seen the comic relief characters, Stock Wimpy Nebbish #1312341 (Middleditch) and not-Rick Sanchez (Whitford) pulled to the side and discreetly garroted.

Yeah, blah blah blah the special effects scenes are great, but really, what doesn't have great special effects these days? A film needs more than impressive CG set pieces to work, and sadly, this is all this film has going for it. At the end of the day, none of the critics who slated this film were misrepresenting what they saw, or were treating it unfairly, or failing to "get it"... its simply as bad as they say it is.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:24 pm

I had a blast! For better or worse, it's the total opposite of G2014. This is very much Godzilla's movie. They were not shy about Kong being the next monster to fight. Ghidorah has new powers... and holy "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!", it shocked me. I really liked his backstory too. Though to be honest, I don't see the big deal with having 3 different actors play the 3 heads. I barely noticed anything that would make each head stand out. There only a second or two of the heads snapping at each other and that was it.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby sentaison » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:41 pm

I absolutely loved this movie! The action was up there with Pacific Rim as far as monster mashing goes and the easter eggs and callbacks to Toho's kaiju history were awesome. I am going to see it again and of course there is a blu-ray purchase in my future.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Dai » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:20 pm

Joseph Goodman wrote:The script is so carelessly written that one can imagine Mike Dougherty being one of those who holds the attitude, "It's just a Godzilla movie, no one sees those for the characters".


I'm not convinced that's the case. We're all talking about how fast-paced this movie is, but it's not short. Despite being 132 minutes, it neither has the bloated feel of some action movies at that length, and nor is it so relentless that fatigue sets in. It has the feel of a movie that has been meticulously cut back to the stem in the editing suite. I suspect that more character-based material exists (either shot or in the script), but was cut to prioritise pacing and keep the movie to a reasonable length.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:37 pm

I'm thinking about what Dougherty said about there existing an initial 3 hour cut of the movie. I wonder if this version has more character development, more meat and lead-up to the big moments instead of the "bullet point" feeling we end up with?

Sekizawa would hide the exposition in scenes full of character. Think about the opening of King Kong vs. Godzilla at the TV studio where we are introduced to our two leads, the central theme and tone of the movie, and get exposition that leads up to both Godzilla and Kong's appearance - and you don't even know that's what you're getting! You're just enjoying a funny scene!

... oh, and it establishes he plays drums! Damn! He made it look so easy when everyone else has such trouble with making character scenes and plot scenes and humor scenes.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby william newell » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:06 pm

Tom R VanSlambrouck wrote:I went and saw this with friends for a second time last night and thought it was much better the second viewing as I got to analyze more of the film where as my Thursday night show I was just so damn giddy seeing my "hero" on the big screen again.

Once I have time to post an articulate response I'll edit this with my final thoughts on the movie.

I do want to end though with the end credit scene I see it going one of four ways:

One- KG regenerates into a full monster again that way KG is still in the MonsterVerse should they choose to continue after Godzilla vs Kong next year.

Two- KG partially regenerates so the eco terrorist group Charles Dance's character runs fits him with cyborg enhancements and we have Mecha-King Ghidorah for the MonsterVerse.

Three- Somehow KG becomes the catalyst for Destoroyah due to the fact that they used the Oxygen Destroyer during that scene; maybe crabs or something crawled into the head and they get mutated by the micro oxygen?

Four- We know said terrorist group is collecting DNA samples of monsters and he already has Godzilla DNA so what certain video game monster and monster in generally that fans have been wanting to make a big screen debut has an origin where they combine Godzilla DNA and KG DNA to create a new monster? Well the video game does that not sure what the proposed movie version would have. That's right Bagan.


Of the four possible outcomes for the post screen I see option 4 as the most likely. KG regenerating into another full monster either itself or getting the MKG treatment would just seem so obvious. The Destoroyah thing is a bit of a stretch and takes cues from Batman v Superman where they use Zod's body to make Doomsday. So I can see the final outcome of the KG head being Bagan.


If I may be so bold as to offer another theory, the terrorist group takes DNA from the Ghidorah head and injects it into Kong, giving him regenerative powers but also driving him mad. Just a thought...as for the movie itself, I don't necessarily love it or hate it(yet). I need to see it at least one more time before coming to an opinion. As it stands now, there were things I enjoyed and others that I didn't. I feel the fast pace of this movie really worked to it's advantage. In G14 you get plenty of time to think about what's going on and time to think"Hey, wait a minute, that's not in keeping with what they said/did earlier", whereas here, that's not much of an option. I am confident in saying this, however. Technically, the movie suffers from a lack of "crispness", both in the audio and video. This was not entirely unexpected as the trailer shown before "Alita" was rather surprising in how low-res it looked compared to the other trailers shown. Almost like a DVD to VHS comparison. That's my thoughts for now, if anything changes after further viewings, I'll update.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Joseph Goodman » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:27 pm

Dai wrote:I'm not convinced that's the case. We're all talking about how fast-paced this movie is, but it's not short. Despite being 132 minutes, it neither has the bloated feel of some action movies at that length, and nor is it so relentless that fatigue sets in. It has the feel of a movie that has been meticulously cut back to the stem in the editing suite. I suspect that more character-based material exists (either shot or in the script), but was cut to prioritise pacing and keep the movie to a reasonable length.


If this what made the cut, I'd hate to see the quality of what didn't make the cut.

lhb412 wrote:I'm thinking about what Dougherty said about there existing an initial 3 hour cut of the movie. I wonder if this version has more character development, more meat and lead-up to the big moments instead of the "bullet point" feeling we end up with?


That's not out of the realm of possibility...
Last edited by Joseph Goodman on Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:42 pm

I'd watch a director's cut of this. Hopefully more extended shots of the action too? I wanted more Mothra and Rodan.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby GFan » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:12 pm

I feel like A LOT of the human character scenes were trimmed to keep the movie at a faster pace and keep it from being more than 2 and a half hours long. I would love to see a 3-hour cut of this!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:07 pm

GFan wrote:I feel like A LOT of the human character scenes were trimmed to keep the movie at a faster pace and keep it from being more than 2 and a half hours long. I would love to see a 3-hour cut of this!


Time to tweet the director!!!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:09 pm

^ Please God don't bother that man.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby tbeasley » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:27 pm

If you have the patience, here are more thoughts and observations in play-by-play/bullet point form –
Spoiler Below:
- Mothra Larva using her silk spray attack put a smile on my face – her adult form using it on Ghidorah was a surprise as well, I don’t think she’s ever kept it in the Toho films
- The eco-terrorist bad guys remind me of the few rogue human groups in the Toho films like the Red Bamboo
- There are quite a number of monster related sex jokes in the movie
- The underwater Monarch base being called ‘Castle Bravo’ is a bit tone deaf (like Operation Lucky Dragon in the preceding film)
- Calling Ghidorah ‘Monster Zero’ was a nice nod, so is G-Team (G-Force, the G-Graspers, etc.)
- Killing off Dr. Graham like that bums me out, Sally Hawkins deserves better
- Rodan’s reveal and ensuing dogfight is a major highlight
- The Oxygen Destroyer missile comes out of nowhere with little to no importance – I can see people having a major problem with that
- I like that while Ghidorah is mainly controlled by enemy forces in the Toho films, here he’s the one in control, awakening the other Titans and having them rampage – it’s a nice reversal
- However, the reveal that Ghidorah is indeed an alien comes and goes pretty quick – honestly, they could’ve kept him as another powerful Titan like Godzilla
- Another interesting reversal is Serizawa sacrificing himself to save Godzilla, not destroy him, coming to terms with the bomb, the monster – but the use of a nuke to revive the character in an American film will definitely rub some the wrong way
- For the most part, Mothra and Rodan are sidelined in favor of Godzilla and Ghidorah - it's understandable in terms of important screen time, but still a bummer
- Godzilla undergoing a meltdown is a nice double-edged sword when it comes to reviving him with a nuke (so it’s not that celebratory of a thing), but it too comes out of nowhere with little importance
- Godzilla’s power up is also a bit mucked up with Mothra’s sacrifice and transference of energy – does she make him better or worse? I feel it should’ve been one or another - or maybe Mothra somehow pacifies Godzilla so he doesn't explode
- The other monsters bowing to Godzilla’s is so unusual I can’t help but love it – it’s definitely the culmination of how bonkers/love it or hate it the movie seems to be
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Mac » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:37 pm

It was worse than I imagined. I'm parroting another critic here, but it really does feel like a Heisei Godzilla film.

I will be happy when this bombs and we can be done with American Godzilla once and for all.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gentleman » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Mac wrote:I will be happy when this bombs and we can be done with American Godzilla once and for all.


See, this I don't get. If you didn't like it, that's fine. But rather than wish to pull the plug on the Monsterverse, why not hope for the next one to be a better movie? If a movie is done well, it will perform better, which will lead to more and better movies. If I had my way, I'd wish for the creative minds behind the scenes do great things with their stories, and that those great things are translated to the screen by great filmmakers and talented actors. If that were to happen we, as fans, would be richly rewarded.

I liked this one, though I had some quibbles (mostly things others have already said). Overall, I enjoyed it. But even if I hadn't, I wouldn't be hoping for this branch of the franchise to simply die (even though that seems to be the inevitable case after G v K). I hope they get better so we can get more.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gwangi » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:47 pm

I go away for a few days and as I understand it, there is a great panic among the fandom regarding the Rotten Tomatoes scores, the box-office take, etc. I get it. I won’t leave you guys again! :mrgreen:

This was like a thrill ride, but without going to an amusement park! Far from perfect and probably ends up being my third favorite of the Mosnterverse. But for the most part I enjoyed it.

For those coming here who had already prejudged it, and noticeably did not offer us any bullet points as to why they disliked it, I could care less of what you guys think. For those who gave a detailed list as to why perhaps you gave it a thumbs down, that I could understand better, even if I may disagree with some of the assessments.

In the end, this was a monster movie, which… turned out to be a monster movie! :shock: As for the humans, I really liked Ken Watannbe, Kyle Chandler, Ziyi Zhang (clever way of making her as the twins) and Sally Hawkins, which was heartbreaking to see her eventual demise (same of course, for Watannabe). Millie Bobby Brown was OK. Vera Farmiga’s motives were somewhat confusing, but then again, so were Emmy Kano’s in “Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah”, a film that is somehow “loved” by many in the fandom. I’ve only seen two episodes of “Game of Thrones”, so I am not at all familiar with Charles Dance, but did find his villain somewhat cardboard.

As for the monsters themselves, I only wish we would have seen more of Rodan. Godzilla is great. Mothra is pretty awesome and Ghidrah, for the first time since the 1960s, is back to his gloriously menacing self!

Box office wise, it may underperform, it may not, but things will be OK. We still have one more movie in the cue, and I am betting that the Mosnterverse will continue on, but if not, then we had our fun, but it certainly will not be the end of Godzilla!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:05 pm

Gwangi wrote:Box office wise, it may underperform, it may not, but things will be OK. We still have one more movie in the cue, and I am betting that the Mosnterverse will continue on, but if not, then we had our fun, but it certainly will not be the end of Godzilla!


If it does continue, great, but if it doesn't continue? I mean, it really doesn't matter.

There will always be new Godzilla movies made, and generally speaking most of them will be made by Toho. If the monsterverse is only four movies that's still an incredible achievement! Those four movies will make a solid box set to take up shelf space in every Walmart for decades to come. These modern-day mega franchises have spoiled all sense of perspective. Think about all the awesome movies that were poised as franchise material that sputtered to a halt with the first disappointing sequel. Four movies!

My favorite thing about this movie was that the monster stuff obviously played really great to kids. All of us became Godzilla fans as kids, and that's the new generation right there.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Russzilla » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:32 pm

lhb412 wrote:
Gwangi wrote:Box office wise, it may underperform, it may not, but things will be OK. We still have one more movie in the cue, and I am betting that the Mosnterverse will continue on, but if not, then we had our fun, but it certainly will not be the end of Godzilla!


If it does continue, great, but if it doesn't continue? I mean, it really doesn't matter.

There will always be new Godzilla movies made, and generally speaking most of them will be made by Toho. If the monsterverse is only four movies that's still an incredible achievement! Those four movies will make a solid box set to take up shelf space in every Walmart for decades to come. These modern-day mega franchises have spoiled all sense of perspective. Think about all the awesome movies that were poised as franchise material that sputtered to a halt with the first disappointing sequel. Four movies!

My favorite thing about this movie was that the monster stuff obviously played really great to kids. All of us became Godzilla fans as kids, and that's the new generation right there.


Saw it today and loved it. I’ve been waiting 44 years since I first saw Godzilla vs. the Thing in 1975 to see a Godzilla movie of this magnitude on the big screen. I too am a little worried about it underperforming at the box office, but like was said, we have one more to watch next year, and then, if the Monsterverse continues, ok, if not, Toho is ready to get that G ball rolling all over again. As an aside, my 5 year old was on the edge of the seat loving the monster action and even jumped once or twice. Brought a tear to my eye.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Russzilla » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:47 pm

The end scene got me thinking guys, could we possibly see Mecha King Ghidorah in Godzilla vs. Kong?
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gwangi » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:09 am

Russzilla wrote:The end scene got me thinking guys, could we possibly see Mecha King Ghidorah in Godzilla vs. Kong?


Perhaps. Or it could be that we see a new creation out of the Ghidrah severed head material - some sort of hybird ala Biollante. It will be a fun guessing game in these next couple of months. Ghidrah and Rodan were contracted for only one movie, but I now think it is a good bet that we will see them again (Ghidrah in some way shape, or form) in the next installment.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Dai » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:04 am

Gwangi wrote:
Russzilla wrote:The end scene got me thinking guys, could we possibly see Mecha King Ghidorah in Godzilla vs. Kong?


Perhaps. Or it could be that we see a new creation out of the Ghidrah severed head material - some sort of hybird ala Biollante. It will be a fun guessing game in these next couple of months. Ghidrah and Rodan were contracted for only one movie, but I now think it is a good bet that we will see them again (Ghidrah in some way shape, or form) in the next installment.


If you regrow a one-headed, wingless Ghidorah, you get...Manda. Maybe they're planning a traditional Chinese dragon as the mandatory China-bait for the next movie. :lol:
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Tom R VanSlambrouck » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:17 pm

william newell wrote: If I may be so bold as to offer another theory, the terrorist group takes DNA from the Ghidorah head and injects it into Kong, giving him regenerative powers but also driving him mad. Just a thought


That could also work and play into the original KKvsG giving Kong the ability to absorb lighting to get stronger. :shock: :idea:

After having time to digest the movie here are my final thoughts on it.

To me GKOTM feels like a late 60s/70s Godzilla movie. The plot is light but the monster action is heavy. That's not a bad thing IMO could the human actors been written better? Yes, yes they could have a lot better. That's my biggest complaint about the movie was the acting for the most part. But you know what I still had fun with the movie.

I personally think they did a great job with all the monsters with the exception of Mothra, she could have used a bit more screen time but thankfully they hint that there's another egg out there that so that they can continue on with her if the MonsterVerse continues post Godzilla vs Kong.

Other than that this movie was made for Godzilla fans. The more you know about the character and the movies the more you get out of it. Its sort of like the 2017 PS4 Godzilla game a lot of people dislike it but its packed full of classic Godzilla Easter eggs that its good. Overall I think I'd give the movie a 7.5 out of 10 just for being so campy and fun.

Bring on Godzilla vs Kong.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Alpha OTS » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:28 pm

Checking back in to the forum here. Been away a long time. :)

Saw it yesterday. Really enjoyed it. I agree with many of the criticisms already stated here, some as strongly some not as. It fixed some things from 2014 but that came with problems of its own.

However there are two BIG positive things I see coming from this movie:

1. I can see a little kid eating every second of this up. In fact when I was hitting the rest room I heard a couple of kids talking with their dad and naming all the monsters. This is a very good thing for the fandom.

2. There was a TON of world building. That's really going to reinforce #1.

Cinemassacre has a youtube video up discussing this movie and their main gripe seems to be how every monster battle is in the dark and rain, especially Ghidorah who is constantly surrounded by a thunderstorm. This I definitely agree with. At first I was ok with the concept, but it really just muddied the screen too much. There are some cinematographic shots, but even those are in the dark.
There were some perspective shots, but they were unfortunately done in a way where it felt like the actors were in front of a green screen. It just didn't convey any scale. 2014 took better time with such shots and to me feels like a better overall movie. KotM seems to hit all the notes that 2014 was missing though. If only we could have some kind of merger of the two.....Vs Kong perhaps?

Really enjoyed everything with Rodan and the Rodan vs Mothra fight. The initial G vs Ghidorah fight was better than the finale one I thought. I was hoping for some more identifiable or better other random kaiju though. The trunkless mastodon was probably the best of that bunch, but I didn't really care for that design.

I'll finish by echoing Cinemassacre, please film Vs. Kong in daylight!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby gojira_fan » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Things I didn’t like.

1. Mothra was underused. The trailers show all her action for the most part.

2. Too many characters. Had they just focused on the Russell family and Serizawa it would have kept the plot more focused.

3. killing Sally Hawkins, although I suppose it was meant to be the shocking moment especially after she just saved Mark Russell

4. the music was buried in the mix, especially during adult Mothra’s birth. That should have been the moment to let Mothra’s song shine, instead you can hardly hear it.

5. Charles Dance’s character was underused. It would have been better to just let Emma be the mastermind.

6. There’s no sense of wonderment or buildup. The Mothra larva hatches 10 or so minutes into the film and Daugherty steps on the accelerator from there and really doesn’t stop.

7. Rain, rain, rain and night battles......



Things I liked

1. Serizawa, it’s a shame he had to die but his scene is powerful. And Ken Wantanabe is a fantastic actor and brought credibility to the series.

2. Ghidorah, this is the best performance / rendition of the monster. Each head had its own personality.

3. The same for Rodan, minus the multiple heads.

4. The family drama. Had they just focused on that, I think people might appreciate the story more.

5. The nod to the Shobijin with Zhang Ziyi’s character’s family history. Although it was somewhat awkwardly inserted in.

6. The Kaiju battles were fierce and well done.

7. “You’ve gotta be "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" kidding!” Yeah I laughed.

8. The use of the older Godzilla roars from the Showa era.

9. The opening logos, my seat actually shook.

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby kiryugoji04 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:15 am

Gargantuan Gargantua wrote:
kiryugoji04 wrote:I hated it. :\


I am starting a support group.


Good. I really need one about now.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby tbeasley » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:00 am

I feel like people were expecting more of a interpersonal drama between the human characters when it was always going to be more of a fun, action oriented assemble. I mean, for most Godzilla movies it's human drama interspersed with monster action, but here it's human and monster action, although certainly not in the insufferable Final Wars kind of way.

Another thing - people are forgetting the monsters are characters too!
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