TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILERS -

This is the place to discuss Legendary Pictures' Godzilla film and upcoming sequels, as well as Kong: Skull Island and the upcoming Godzilla vs. Kong!! Let everyone know what you think and discuss your thoughts and ideas about the upcoming films!!!!

Moderator: Controllers

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby mbozzo » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:44 pm

I've seen the movie, yesterday. I has to post that it was a good movie. As a Godzilla fan, I like all the fan service in this movie. It has more fan service than the 2014 movie ever had. :mrgreen:
mbozzo
Godzilla
 
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:19 pm

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby william newell » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:47 pm

Just curious, was there ever an explanation(either official or fan speculation)on how Ghidorah managed to get trapped in ice in the first place?
william newell
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:29 pm
Location: Hamilton, New Jersey

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Baltan II » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:50 pm

There’s at least inference that Ghidorah lost a fight for dominance with Godzilla. Probably collapsed through ice and was trapped or buried.
Image
User avatar
Baltan II
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 2474
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:27 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:37 pm

Speaking of Godzilla fighting Ghidorah, what was the storytelling purpose of there being three fights? In the first one they tussle for a second and Ghidorah runs off. In the second, Godzilla is winning and is interrupted by the Oxygen Destroyer. The third is the final battle.

This strikes me as... wrong? If we're to infer that Godzilla defeated King Ghidorah who was them frozen on the ice all those years ago then Godzilla has consistently defeated Ghidorah through the ages and the only reason he almost doesn't this time is because the Oxygen Destroyer. I can understand the logic behind this, saying it's humanity interfering that causes the trouble, but that is underdeveloped and I don't think very satisfying. It somehow makes Ghidorah less tough than in his original film, Astro-Monster, and Destroy All Monsters where Godzilla alone isn't enough to defeat him because he's so strong. It makes more dramatic sense for Godzilla to be soundly defeated by Ghidorah halfway through the film so that he can rise back up and make up for his previous defeat, right?

Compare this to other Kaiju films where there are three fights.

In Gamera 2, Gamera manages to catch the Legion unawares in the first fight but is still injured and in the second fight is horribly injured and left for dead, meaning there's a lot of drama for that last battle where Gamera regroups and takes on Legion. In Godzilla vs. Hedorah we get the sense of Hedorah becoming more and more powerful with each fight. In the first, Godzilla repels Hedorah but can do nothing to actually harm him, and in the second, Hedorah brushes Godzilla off, impressing on the audience the extreme difficulty Godzilla will have in vanquishing his foe in the final battle.

What I'm saying is the dramatic underpinning of the Godzilla v. Ghidorah rivalry is underwhelmingly executed.
User avatar
lhb412
Millennium Godzilla
 
Posts: 15436
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:11 pm

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:50 pm

lhb412 wrote:If we're to infer that Godzilla defeated King Ghidorah who was them frozen on the ice all those years ago then Godzilla has consistently defeated Ghidorah through the ages and the only reason he almost doesn't this time is because the Oxygen Destroyer. I can understand the logic behind this, saying it's humanity interfering that causes the trouble, but that is underdeveloped and I don't think very satisfying.


I think the broader theme at play in that scene and the film as a whole is that humanity causes trouble not by interfering but by making the wrong choices with regard to nature. It all boils down to how humans approach Godzilla and Ghidorah. Their rivalry is ancient but it's bigger than their combat. It's about what each of them represents for planet Earth.

In her big speech, Emma Russell denounces humanity for overpopulation, pollution and war but she conspicuously leaves out climate change. She is convinced that her plan is for the greater good of the planet, not realizing that setting Monster Zero free by destroying Antarctic ice is the ultimate embodiment of human-triggered climate change, as Ghidorah sets out to essentially terraform the planet to his unearthly liking.

What people believe they're doing doesn't matter. What matters is what people actually do. The military thought they would take control of the situation and wipe out both Monster Zero and Godzilla with the Oxygen Destroyer. What they actually did was attack nature's guardian with his biggest weakness while leaving the otherworldly invader unharmed and free to corrupt Earth's natural order.

When Ghidorah reigns as a false king, the Titans of the world bring about earthquakes, wildfires, tsunamis and disasters we don't even have names for yet. When Godzilla stands as king of the monsters, he keeps them in check and they collectively bring balance to nature.

Between Godzilla: King of the Monsters and Godzilla: The Planet Eater, I think it's awesome that there have been two wildly different takes on the Godzilla/Ghidorah rivalry in less than a year. They're each steeped in meaningful themes that add depth to their respective narratives and demonstrate the versatility of both characters.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5413
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Baltan II » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:47 pm

Given the Anguirus skeleton and depictions of Mothra, would not surprise me if Godzilla’s original final fight wasn’t won alone.
Image
User avatar
Baltan II
Burning Godzilla
 
Posts: 2474
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:27 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gentleman » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:53 pm

I don't know if this has been brought up earlier in the thread, and honestly I'm too lazy to go read through the whole thing, but...

I love how the ending of the film proves that the "bad guys" had the right of it the whole time. If they had just left Ghidorah where he was, their plan would have worked even better than they predicted. The other Titans, operating on their own, didn't seem to bother with humanity very much, so there wouldn't have been the mass extinction they had expected. Even better, their presence had begun to heal Nature's problems with minimal danger to the human race.

In their new world, the Titans would always be a potential threat just by virtue of their sheer size and power, but Godzilla's role seems to be to keep them in check (and that's not even considering any new Orca technology being developed). The benefits of living in the new paradigm seem to far outweigh the negative. So, the world is a better place with the Titans in it. As long as there are no more wildcards like King Ghidorah around, that is.

Thank you, bad guys.
I'm not a hero. I'm not a savior. Forget what you know.

I'm just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control.
User avatar
Gentleman
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:23 pm

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Benjamin Haines » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:48 pm

Gentleman wrote:I don't know if this has been brought up earlier in the thread, and honestly I'm too lazy to go read through the whole thing, but...

I love how the ending of the film proves that the "bad guys" had the right of it the whole time. If they had just left Ghidorah where he was, their plan would have worked even better than they predicted. The other Titans, operating on their own, didn't seem to bother with humanity very much, so there wouldn't have been the mass extinction they had expected. Even better, their presence had begun to heal Nature's problems with minimal danger to the human race.

In their new world, the Titans would always be a potential threat just by virtue of their sheer size and power, but Godzilla's role seems to be to keep them in check (and that's not even considering any new Orca technology being developed). The benefits of living in the new paradigm seem to far outweigh the negative. So, the world is a better place with the Titans in it. As long as there are no more wildcards like King Ghidorah around, that is.

Thank you, bad guys.


All the mercenaries did was spread death and destruction. They killed so many people in China and Antarctica just to pull a kidnapping ruse and release Monster Zero. They didn't know that he would awaken all of the other Titans but they knew that he and Rodan would kill countless more people when they woke up, which they did.

There's no version of the mercenaries' plan that doesn't involve unleashing Ghidorah, and even if they had left him alone, things would have gone in unpredictable ways when they awakened the other Titans. From a storytelling standpoint, what happens with Ghidorah exemplifies why the mercenaries' plan wasn't the right way to go. Going back to the climate change metaphor, it's like how Earth's temperature has been on a natural, long-term upswing since coming out of the last ice age but that doesn't mean that speeding up the process exponentially with deforestation and carbon emissions is good for humanity or other living species. The hibernating Titans could have eventually woken up on their own time but that doesn't mean that forcing them to wake up sooner was a good thing for humanity.

The end credits suggest that Godzilla and the other Titans are helping the planet's natural ecosystems but what did that cost in human lives? There's no indication that the danger to humanity going forward is minimal, as Godzilla is reportedly repelling attacks on cities by other Titans on a regular basis. A lot of people would be killed in each attack before Godzilla got there and countless more would die in the ensuing clashes.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5413
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gentleman » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:43 pm

Like I said, expressly, if they hadn't woken Ghidorah their plan would have worked better. Yes, Rodan caused death and destruction upon his release. Probably more than one Titan did the same, but remember also they were being goaded into a frenzy by Ghidorah's command. The loss of human life was probably quite high. But now that Godzilla is King, their deliberate attacks seem to have ceased. Left to their own wills, the Titans also seem to be repairing Nature as they move, leaving the rest of the world in an improving situation.

And I put it that the headlines in the end credits do indeed put forth the indication that the danger to humanity is minimal. They read:

"Titans Returning to Natural Environments"

"Monarch Releases Titan Studies to Public"

"Rodan Nesting in Volcano North of Fiji"

"Mysterious Rainforest Blooms in Sahara Desert: Strange New Life Appears After Titan Activity"

"Monarch: Decades of Secrecy Revealed"

"Godzilla's Path Through Pacific Bringing Life Back to Reefs, Restoring Fish Populations"

"Monarch Confirms Ancient Greek Origin of Squid-Like Titan Known As 'Scylla'"

"Godzilla Keeps Titans in Check: King of Monsters Defends Cities From Attack, Keeps 'Natural Order'"

"'Behemoth' Titan Restores Deforested Regions of Amazon"

"Scylla Slows Ice Melt in Antarctica, Stabilizing Sea Levels"

"As Ecosystems Heal, 14 Species Taken Off Endangered List"

"Ancient Rivalries Between Titans Suspected"

"Breaking News: Travelers On The Carnival Breeze Received A Surprise Visit from Godzilla on Tuesday As They Traveled From Miami To Cuba"

"Titan Waste Could Be Viable Energy Source"

"Are Prehistoric Plants New Superfood"

"Seismic Disturbances Reported on Skull Island"

"New TItans Drawn to Skull Island"

"Monarch Boosts Forces Around Skull Island"

"Monarch Finds Massive Egg"

"Ancient 'Hollow Earth' Humans Coexisted With Titans"

"Monarch to Explore Hollow Earth"

And finally, "What is a King to a God?"

Now, obviously, these headlines are not all-inclusive, but it's pretty clear they were meant to be a "slice of life" smattering of examples. If the Titans were going bonkers and flattening cities left and right, they'd be the sole headline of every news feed in the world. Instead, there's only one real mention of it, when Godzilla shepherds them away from humanity. Does he prevent every Titan from brushing against humanity? Doubtful. He's the only one who seems to be doing it, and he can't be everywhere at once. So yes, there is a chance that humans are in constant danger from these beasts. But it doesn't seem like it's a prevailing danger. Instead, the Titans reach celebrity status, with their comings and goings as doted on as a red carpet photo op.

The other headlines mention Titans doing their own, separate things, sometimes in the most uninhabited areas of the world. Rodan's nest in the Fiji Islands isn't going to thrill the inhabitants, but it doesn't seem like he's doing them any damage, either. Behemoth and Scylla, the only other two named, seem to be taking pains to stay as far out of mankind's way as possible. And on their way, they're bringing very positive change to the Earth and its environment, which is a huge benefit to humanity, too.

This isn't to say that they will never be a danger to humanity as a whole. Whenever a population of creatures up to 300 feet high or with 800 foot wingspans settles in to share the earth, there's always going to be danger. But at the moment that doesn't seem to be the way of it. Yes, there was a huge loss of life. But those that are left (and a lot more are left than Tywin Lannister expected) are in a better world. Just like the bad guys wanted.
I'm not a hero. I'm not a savior. Forget what you know.

I'm just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control.
User avatar
Gentleman
Godzilla Jr.
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:23 pm

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:30 am

Gentleman wrote:And I put it that the headlines in the end credits do indeed put forth the indication that the danger to humanity is minimal. Now, obviously, these headlines are not all-inclusive, but it's pretty clear they were meant to be a "slice of life" smattering of examples. If the Titans were going bonkers and flattening cities left and right, they'd be the sole headline of every news feed in the world. Instead, there's only one real mention of it, when Godzilla shepherds them away from humanity. Does he prevent every Titan from brushing against humanity? Doubtful. He's the only one who seems to be doing it, and he can't be everywhere at once. So yes, there is a chance that humans are in constant danger from these beasts. But it doesn't seem like it's a prevailing danger. Instead, the Titans reach celebrity status, with their comings and goings as doted on as a red carpet photo op.


Well of course, that's exactly what would happen in the real world even if people died in giant monster attacks every day. People really do die in natural disasters, military operations and violent crime every day and that's never stopped any of those things from being lionized in arts & entertainment. A natural disaster taking the form of a giant beast would be a clickbait celebrity no matter how many people it killed.


Gentleman wrote:Yes, Rodan caused death and destruction upon his release. Probably more than one Titan did the same, but remember also they were being goaded into a frenzy by Ghidorah's command. The loss of human life was probably quite high. But now that Godzilla is King, their deliberate attacks seem to have ceased. Left to their own wills, the Titans also seem to be repairing Nature as they move, leaving the rest of the world in an improving situation.


Rodan wasn't after Ghidorah when he leveled the town. He did that just by flying away from the volcano.

"Godzilla Keeps Titans in Check: King of Monsters Defends Cities From Attack, Keeps 'Natural Order'" That's the only headline in the credits that mentions city attacks but it's enough to know that it's happened to multiple cities and apparently often enough to generalize Godzilla's role. We've already seen that Godzilla can wipe out scores of people in a flood just by walking ashore so I don't doubt that every city he defends would still see a steep death toll.

Hurricanes may not seem like a big deal in parts of the world that aren't affected by them but it's a different story for the people who are. A world full of awakened Titans would lead to significantly more life-threatening situations for a lot more people, even if the Titans would likely affect those living near coasts more than anyone else.


Gentleman wrote:Yes, there was a huge loss of life. But those that are left (and a lot more are left than Tywin Lannister expected) are in a better world. Just like the bad guys wanted.


I see a parallel between that and what Thanos did by wiping out half of all life in the universe. Even if there are benefits for the survivors, is a world that's gone through that substantial a loss of life really a better world? Maybe it is for the planet overall but not for human beings specifically and certainly not for those who died, and I don't think the movie makes the case that it is. The death and destruction on display speaks for itself.
Image
User avatar
Benjamin Haines
Meltdown Godzilla
 
Posts: 5413
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:02 pm

lhb412 wrote:Speaking of Godzilla fighting Ghidorah, what was the storytelling purpose of there being three fights? In the first one they tussle for a second and Ghidorah runs off. In the second, Godzilla is winning and is interrupted by the Oxygen Destroyer. The third is the final battle.

This strikes me as... wrong? If we're to infer that Godzilla defeated King Ghidorah who was them frozen on the ice all those years ago then Godzilla has consistently defeated Ghidorah through the ages and the only reason he almost doesn't this time is because the Oxygen Destroyer. I can understand the logic behind this, saying it's humanity interfering that causes the trouble, but that is underdeveloped and I don't think very satisfying. It somehow makes Ghidorah less tough than in his original film, Astro-Monster, and Destroy All Monsters where Godzilla alone isn't enough to defeat him because he's so strong. It makes more dramatic sense for Godzilla to be soundly defeated by Ghidorah halfway through the film so that he can rise back up and make up for his previous defeat, right?

Compare this to other Kaiju films where there are three fights.

In Gamera 2, Gamera manages to catch the Legion unawares in the first fight but is still injured and in the second fight is horribly injured and left for dead, meaning there's a lot of drama for that last battle where Gamera regroups and takes on Legion. In Godzilla vs. Hedorah we get the sense of Hedorah becoming more and more powerful with each fight. In the first, Godzilla repels Hedorah but can do nothing to actually harm him, and in the second, Hedorah brushes Godzilla off, impressing on the audience the extreme difficulty Godzilla will have in vanquishing his foe in the final battle.

What I'm saying is the dramatic underpinning of the Godzilla v. Ghidorah rivalry is underwhelmingly executed.


We don't know HOW Godzilla defeated Ghidorah though. To me, it feels like they were evenly matched where sometimes one would gain the upper hand over the other. Like 2 evenly matched opponents that small things can change the outcome. Not to mention it doesn't seem like a very definitive victory when all that happened was Ghidorah being trapped in ice. Immobilized, but not dead. It's only with Burning Godzilla that Ghidorah was truly defeated. Plus, I think it makes sense that Godzilla has the upper hand in an underwater fight. Ghidorah just wasn't built for water combat.
Image
TerranigmaFreak
Heisei Godzilla
 
Posts: 1761
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:09 pm

Previous

Return to Legendary's MonsterVerse

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests