TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILERS -

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:18 pm

Thomas Tull is a unifying figure for Pacific Rim, Godzilla '14, and Skull Island. I don't want to say his absence is the soul reason the films since haven't been as good (it takes a village to make a film), but it's certainly a factor to consider!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Jinzo Ningen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:21 am

A unifying, guiding hand to steer these big behemoths is HUGE benefit - so long as said skipper knows, understands & respects the source material and is willing to flex when certain aspects of said material must be tweaked to translate better on screen vs. comics. The fact that the Universal & Toho collectives from years past actually work 'cohesively' is a willingness on the part of fans to just loosely accept and/or blindly ignore - as required. :lol: Certainly neither of these decades-long multi-film juggernauts were intended to be franchises. It just... sorta happened. The work behind the scenes on these modern cinematic universes is a daunting task and, frankly, it's nothing short of miraculous that Feige has been able to steer a mostly straight and successful course for such a long period of time with out much in the way of flops - slight disappointments yes, but no outright stinkbombs. (IMHO/YMMV)

I thought & hoped, based on the teasers & trailers from KotM that Dougherty could be that person for the MonsterVerse. After seeing the film a couple of times it is clear - in my mind at least - that he needs more experience and a LOT more tempered self-control. More is not always better and doing something because you can or always wanted to does not always translate into flawless awesomeness up on the big screen. Toho had some measure of control - or at least guidelines - but I doubt they had much say about what we got beyond their own concerns for their properties. If there are future entries beyond GvK then they will need a Feige of their own ...or they run the risk of crashing & burning. In that respect it might be a better course to steer clear of Godzilla & friends and either shoot for lesser known/cherished characters like 2nd and 3rd string Toho product such as War of the Gargantuas-type stuff, or go after Gamera (though even that could be a hot potato), or just invent forgo adaptions and just let Legendary create their own, new stuff. That final option likely wouldn't give them steam for long though. Studios are understandably nervous about throwing giant piles of cash at something that isn't a well-known/time-honored/beloved IP.

So where does that leave us... ??
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby O.Supreme » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:34 am

jellydonut25 wrote:I very much wish MORE movies would take that approach and spend LESS time explaining things.


jellydonut25 wrote:Why is the MUTO bowing to Godzilla? Why aren't more of the Titans fighting for dominance? Why is Godzilla aligning with humanity if humanity is destroying nature and mankind is the one destroying nature? Is there going to be payoff for the Oxygen Destroyer?



So...just to be clear...You do have questions (which is fair), but you are OK with the fact that the movie did not take time to address them directly?...

To clarify myself, I didn't have any problems with the movie (beyond nitpicks) , after seeing it a 2nd time, I liked it even more. Also, I know many fans don't like the idea of having to read supplemental material from other sources to get explanations, but I've don't it for so long with other franchises, I don't mind at all.

My only concern is this...After seeing Burning Godzilla in action, one wonders, how in the world *could* Kong possibly win? Now granted Burning Godzilla may have been a one-off, and it hasn't been revealed which monster will win (although early press release state there will definitely be a winner this time) . My problem is, I have a really tough time seeing either Godzilla or Kong as villains. I know a LOT of people would see it as a cop out if they did the old battle then team-up to defeat an even greater threat, but honestly, that's all I really want.

Kong beating Godzilla would be total BS, unless they say Godzilla was extremely weak in the aftermath of his battle with Ghidora, and Kong was super-charged or something, but even that would be a weak explanation akin to Batman v Superman. Conversely, Godzilla obliterating Kong, like I would expect, would no doubt make him seem villainous, because it's easy to sympathize with Kong.

I am glad they decided not to push back the release date, but they have committed themselves to *making the best movie possible*. Although I adore KotM, general audiences didn't show up. Legendary have set the bar very high for themselves, I don't know how they are going to deliver, I just hope they can.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:15 am

O.Supreme wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:I very much wish MORE movies would take that approach and spend LESS time explaining things.


jellydonut25 wrote:Why is the MUTO bowing to Godzilla? Why aren't more of the Titans fighting for dominance? Why is Godzilla aligning with humanity if humanity is destroying nature and mankind is the one destroying nature? Is there going to be payoff for the Oxygen Destroyer?



So...just to be clear...You do have questions (which is fair), but you are OK with the fact that the movie did not take time to address them directly?...

Not really what I'm saying. I don't really want answers to these questions...I'm just saying that this movie, because of these things, doesn't feel COHESIVE and FULLY connected to what has come before. There's not a GOOD throughline. The "MonsterVerse" feels more akin to the DCEU where each individual movie just fails or soars on the back of its director, and there's not really a unifying vision or cohesive thought process behind them all.

Does that make the Marvel movies a little "samey" at times? Absolutely. But if you want that success, then you need that cohesion, or you just have a buncha movies that are kinda related, and not really a fully competent cinematic universe and franchise.

The full context of what I was saying was there. Dougherty wants to just do things because he wants to. He wants humans and Godzilla to get along. He wants all the monsters bowing to Godzilla. He wants Godzilla having a nuke blown up in his face. He wants the Oxygen Destroyer to come in via Skype. He wants Mothra and Godzilla to have a symbiosis.
But he has no regard for how those things fit into a unifying vision...because there isn't one.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby The Giant Pacific Octopus » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:32 pm

I haven't seen this movie nor plan too but is King Kong in this? I heard he made multiple appearances in the film.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby O.Supreme » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:38 pm

He is referred to a couple of times, and clips from Skull Island are shown as *archival footage* in the background. But nothing new. The end Credits do heavily play on the next film basically again showing cave drawings of Kong and Godzilla in battle, and articles stating the titans are all converging on Skull island. In fact I was just watching this video, which provides the novels exposition of Kong during the events of KotM:

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby GFan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:13 pm

O.Supreme wrote:My only concern is this...After seeing Burning Godzilla in action, one wonders, how in the world *could* Kong possibly win? Now granted Burning Godzilla may have been a one-off, and it hasn't been revealed which monster will win (although early press release state there will definitely be a winner this time) . My problem is, I have a really tough time seeing either Godzilla or Kong as villains. I know a LOT of people would see it as a cop out if they did the old battle then team-up to defeat an even greater threat, but honestly, that's all I really want.

Kong beating Godzilla would be total BS, unless they say Godzilla was extremely weak in the aftermath of his battle with Ghidora, and Kong was super-charged or something, but even that would be a weak explanation akin to Batman v Superman. Conversely, Godzilla obliterating Kong, like I would expect, would no doubt make him seem villainous, because it's easy to sympathize with Kong.


This.

I'll be dissapointed if they don't team up at the end, honestly. KKvsG works because Godzilla was still very much a villain in that film and the movie's zany plot helps put the two monsters in the same place to duke it out. Even if Godzilla "turns on humanity" in the next film, what's Kong going to do? He's stranded on Skull Island. Or is GvsK going to have some ridiculous plot that requires Kong getting shipped to the mainland? It'll be really interesting to see what they come up with, regardless of who ends up winning.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gwangi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:39 pm

With all of this talk about the Monsterverse and the MCU, one has to remember that the Monsterverse is only three movies so far. At three movies in, the MCU was still not the giant that we know it today. It had one hit with "Iron Man". That was followed closely with "The Incredible Hulk", a movie which I enjoyed, but vastly underperformed. And that was eventually followed by "Iron Man II" which, while it made money, many fans believe it to be the low point of of the entire series. It was not really until the first "Avengers" movie came out, did the MCU become the monster that is talked about in many circles.

Will "Godzilla vs. Kong" be The Avengers of the Monsterverse? We shall see.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby O.Supreme » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:07 pm

GFan wrote:what's Kong going to do? He's stranded on Skull Island. Or is GvsK going to have some ridiculous plot that requires Kong getting shipped to the mainland? It'll be really interesting to see what they come up with, regardless of who ends up winning.


I don't think Kong is stranded so much as chooses to be isolated, according to the KotM novelization anyway... and KotM basically insinuates that whether it be through huge caverns in the Earth, or ocean travel, the Titans can move great distances, in short periods of time via the Hollow Earth. Methuselah, Behemoth and the 3rd MUTO had to travel great distances to arrive in Boston.

Also this supports the idea that not all Titans were responding to Ghidora's call, or some were to varying degrees, since many of the Titans (some initially closer than the ones that showed up) were not on scene at the end.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby william newell » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:55 am

O.Supreme wrote:
GFan wrote:what's Kong going to do? He's stranded on Skull Island. Or is GvsK going to have some ridiculous plot that requires Kong getting shipped to the mainland? It'll be really interesting to see what they come up with, regardless of who ends up winning.


I don't think Kong is stranded so much as chooses to be isolated, according to the KotM novelization anyway... and KotM basically insinuates that whether it be through huge caverns in the Earth, or ocean travel, the Titans can move great distances, in short periods of time via the Hollow Earth. Methuselah, Behemoth and the 3rd MUTO had to travel great distances to arrive in Boston.

Also this supports the idea that not all Titans were responding to Ghidora's call, or some were to varying degrees, since many of the Titans (some initially closer than the ones that showed up) were not on scene at the end.


Personally, I've got a sneaking suspicion that most of G vs KK is going to take place on Skull Island. I hope I'm wrong as I would love to see Godzilla and Kong duke it out in a major metropolis in BROAD DAYLIGHT. :mrgreen:
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby GFan » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:32 pm

O.Supreme wrote:
GFan wrote:what's Kong going to do? He's stranded on Skull Island. Or is GvsK going to have some ridiculous plot that requires Kong getting shipped to the mainland? It'll be really interesting to see what they come up with, regardless of who ends up winning.


I don't think Kong is stranded so much as chooses to be isolated, according to the KotM novelization anyway... and KotM basically insinuates that whether it be through huge caverns in the Earth, or ocean travel, the Titans can move great distances, in short periods of time via the Hollow Earth. Methuselah, Behemoth and the 3rd MUTO had to travel great distances to arrive in Boston.

Also this supports the idea that not all Titans were responding to Ghidora's call, or some were to varying degrees, since many of the Titans (some initially closer than the ones that showed up) were not on scene at the end.


Totally didn't think about the Hollow Earth thing!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby H-Man » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:34 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:snip


Good points, Jelly, and I agree.

Between the Monsterverse and Universal's "Dark Universe" and especially the DCU, it seems to me that these studios want to copy the Marvel formula without putting in the work that made it a game changer. I.e., making more than a handful of movies before trying to tie everything together. And I know that's not viable for every cinematic universe, or whatever you wanna call them.

Iron Man definitely laid the ground work for the MCU without explaining too much or trying to force every element of future films into its story. There were, what, a half dozen or more films after that before everything came together for the first time in Avengers? I think G14 was very much like Iron Man in that it established recurring story elements and characters while also being an enjoyable film on its own. The problem with KOTM is that it's trying to skip everything between Iron Man and that first Avengers while trying to explain everything else and also adding more than is necessary (the Oxygen Destroyer? the Hollow Earth??) on top of it. Is there any MCU film that tries to establish as much as this film does? KOTM barely even establishes its main characters, human and monster, without getting too convoluted.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:17 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:Is there going to be payoff for the Oxygen Destroyer?


I agree with your overall post, but this one stuck out to me. Cause it looks like there is a pay off to the oxygen destroyer. I think it's actually pretty subtle, but the scene showing how it killed all the fish in the ocean forcing fishermen to find other means to make a living could have consequences in the next movie.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby tbeasley » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:26 am

If you want to be reaching and do a MCU comparison...
Iron Man - Godzilla
Incredible Hulk - Skull Island
Iron Man 2 - KOTM
Thor/Captain America - n/a
Avengers - Godzilla vs Kong

I remember upon release Iron Man 2 was roundly criticized for "serving its wider universe." Perhaps that can apply to KOTM as well, but I think the MonsterVerse has a lot less to juggle, and that works in its favor. From what we know, it's ultimately the two biggest monsters coming together for a fight, not six heroes teaming together to take on a villain. There are other monsters, even iconic ones, but they're merely costars at best, window dressing at worst. It's all about Godzilla and Kong.

Anyway, I thought these were some nice thoughts on the film from tumblr...
So the new Godzilla was actually a climate change movie, huh?

•The kaiju are the timeless forces of nature that play out in the ecosystem, explicitly personified as monstrous antediluvian beasts
•The primary human antivillain, Emma, is an accelerationist environmentalist, who hopes to set the kaiju free and let them run wild – thus destroying the excesses of human civilization, but preserving the long-term survival of Earth and of humanity
•The kaiju are agitated not only by nuclear fallout, but by all sorts of environmentally unsafe practices, such as aggressive mining, and Scylla ultimately and literally emerges from an oil field
•Ghidorah, the kaiju that surrounds itself in a titanic storm and weaponizes lightning and the weather, literally emerges from the melting antarctic ice cap in a metaphor for global warming disaster
•Humanity suppresses the nuclear Godzilla out of panic and fear of nuclear disaster, thus allowing Ghidorah and global warming to rise to supremacy
•Ghidorah immediately commands all of the other kaiju to terraform the Earth to his inhospitable liking
•Humans have to deliberately descend into Godzilla’s lair and activate dangerous nuclear devices in order to wake him from his hibernation and empower him to defeat Ghidorah
•Mothra, who grows to hydroelectric maturity beneath a waterfall and glows with solar power, fights side-by-side with Godzilla, the living nuclear reactor, in order to defeat Ghidorah
•The kaiju ecosystem, as corrected with human aid through Godzilla, ultimately restores the human environment and the mundane ecosystem to holistic balance and prosperity.

10/10, would watch sustainable energy beat up climate change again.

https://azdoine.tumblr.com/post/1857174 ... ate-change

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Baltan II » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:59 pm

TerranigmaFreak wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:Is there going to be payoff for the Oxygen Destroyer?


I agree with your overall post, but this one stuck out to me. Cause it looks like there is a pay off to the oxygen destroyer. I think it's actually pretty subtle, but the scene showing how it killed all the fish in the ocean forcing fishermen to find other means to make a living could have consequences in the next movie.


First time I watched the movie and the post-credits scene started, I held my breath waiting for some familiar crab shape to appear!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:34 pm

I just realized there were FOUR Ghidorah heads in the movie! We all saw Godzilla completely obliterate Ghidorah and vaporizing the last head. How did the fishermen get another head when Ghidorah was completely destroyed!?! Then someone pointed out that the head Godzilla ripped off in the middle of the movie wasn't vaporized! That was the head that the fishermen found!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:28 pm

Just saw the movie a third time, and enjoyed it much more. Seeing at that opening weekend with all the expectations behind it and being underwhelmed and then seeing it a second time to get a handle on just what I didn't like about it... I got all that out of my system and went in this time with a mindset just to enjoy it, and I did. It's not going to be one of my favorites, but like Tokyo SOS and Final Wars I can see it hovering somewhere below the middle portion of my personal 'favorite to least favorite' list.

Also, I sat in the back this time, which made the readability of the monster scenes much better.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby TerranigmaFreak » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:19 pm

lhb412 wrote:Just saw the movie a third time, and enjoyed it much more. Seeing at that opening weekend with all the expectations behind it and being underwhelmed and then seeing it a second time to get a handle on just what I didn't like about it... I got all that out of my system and went in this time with a mindset just to enjoy it, and I did. It's not going to be one of my favorites, but like Tokyo SOS and Final Wars I can see it hovering somewhere below the middle portion of my personal 'favorite to least favorite' list.

Also, I sat in the back this time, which made the readability of the monster scenes much better.


A movie like this needs to be seen in Imax.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:29 pm

^ I found that the effects sequences were much easier to follow with the screen shrunken down somewhat.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby JordanGLC » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:44 am

Gwangi wrote:Had a chance to view this for the third time, and this time on ScreenX (we have two of them in the greater LA area).

phpBB [media]


Regarding ScreenX, I had assumed that there would be three screens and would be viewing this as if it was a Cinerama experience. However, there was in fact one screen. The right and left side are just walls, however there are projectors placed on top of either side, thus completing that 270-degree image. I have to admit, that at first I was wowed when it was first introduced; it certainly did feel like I was surrounded by the movie.

However, that 270 degree image is not constant. During the slower parts of the movie, the image is only playing in that center screen! :shock: Only when the action starts to pick up, do the walls light up again. And that is basically how it was during the entire movie. I still say the best possible viewing experience is on IMAX.

Despite all of this ScreenX gimmick, I still very much enjoyed the movie and of course, catch things I missed in the first two go rounds, such as Ghidrah saber-rattling his tail when he is awakened, and an image of Behemoth can be seen right there in the very beginning of the opening credits.

Using Leonard Maltin's ratings guide, G:KOTM still garners a solid *** stars, while the ScreenX experience receives **1/2 stars.


I saw it in ScreenX as part of my "see it in as many different ways as possible" goal. I thought it was interesting, but I don't think I would see a movie in that format that I was only intending to see once in a theater. IMAX to me is still the gold standard of premium viewing options.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:27 pm

lhb412 wrote:^ I found that the effects sequences were much easier to follow with the screen shrunken down somewhat.

Yeah, I actually enjoyed my regular-sized theater screening MORE than my Imax one.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Benjamin Haines » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:23 pm

Ultraseven wrote:I avoided spoilers, trailers, comments etc etc for a whole year!


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lhb412 wrote:Oh, but I'd like to add maybe the most important thing:

The theater was full, and there were tons of kids. I might prefer a more substantial, more different kind of Godzilla movie, but when I say that this is a simple "play the hits" type film I, we, have to remember that a lot of people don't know the hits! Kids today need to be taught that there is a good monster called Mothra, and that Godzilla often fights a mean, three headed bad guy! If you're 7 years old this is the greatest film ever made.

In the end, I can see it serving a very similar role to the 70s films, which were so appealing to children. I'm guessing the vast majority of Godzilla fans became fans because they watch these movies as children, and nothing hooks a kid like those 70s movies! It was certainly the case with me.

:D


Yes! The first showing I went to was at 7 PM on opening Friday at a big theater outside of Atlanta. They had G:KotM on three of their twelve screens but there were so many kids there. I saw three different groups of a couple adults with about a dozen kids in tow enter the auditorium in succession. The kids outnumbered the adults at that showing and they seemed to really get into it.

I went to 9 PM showings on the first Saturday and Sunday in my home town in NC, near two colleges and far from any big cities. I didn't see any kids at the Saturday showing, just about a dozen other adults, although the Sunday showing had a bigger and more reactive crowd with a few families.

I became a Godzilla fan after I saw the '98 film on the big screen at age 9. I imagine that G:KotM will work as an even more effective gateway to the rest of the series for kids today.


Jinzo Ningen wrote:Another thing that really surprised and rather bothered me was the use of so much coarse language. Having the tweenage daughter shout the s-word a half dozen times or so at the film's opening was one, but the worst offender (literally) was O'Shea commenting "You gotta be F-ing kidding me."

Sorry, but there is NO reason - aside from shock factor and to solidify a PG13 rating - to have this kind of language in this film. And the old "but they hear that everywhere anyhow" is a garbage copout excuse. I don't offer this complaint as some easily offended virgin-eared crybaby. I have no issue with crass language when it works for the film. I totally love MIDNIGHT RUN, and it's chock full of F-bombs... but it works in the context and is therefor neither all that surprising nor hard to take.

G:KotM, on the other hand, is the kind of film you want to take your kids & grandkids to, in order to share your love of - and enthusiasm for - the monsters and mayhem that you grew up loving as a kid yourself. This is not a surprise motivation either, but a given. As such, why on Earth would the filmmakers see fit to shoehorn in obscenities??? Sorry guys, but I don't need or want to hear the F-word in a Godzilla film - EVER. Totally pointless, and classless. Shame on you, Michael Dougherty.


Adults don't need to worry about kids hearing colorful language in movies. Kids think curse words are funny! It's always the parents or grandparents who get bothered by it. I probably wouldn't show G:KotM to my grandmother but I wouldn't hesitate to show it to any of my little cousins, you know? There was a row of kids behind me in the theater on opening Friday and they laughed out loud at that O'Shea Jackson line. Actually, the dialogue that drew the biggest laughs from the crowd at all three of my screenings was when someone asks how Ghidorah survived the Oxygen Destroyer and Jackson's character retorts "I don't know but it probably has something to do with him growing his god damn head back."


tbeasley wrote:Anyway, I thought these were some nice thoughts on the film from tumblr...
So the new Godzilla was actually a climate change movie, huh?

•The kaiju are the timeless forces of nature that play out in the ecosystem, explicitly personified as monstrous antediluvian beasts
•The primary human antivillain, Emma, is an accelerationist environmentalist, who hopes to set the kaiju free and let them run wild – thus destroying the excesses of human civilization, but preserving the long-term survival of Earth and of humanity
•The kaiju are agitated not only by nuclear fallout, but by all sorts of environmentally unsafe practices, such as aggressive mining, and Scylla ultimately and literally emerges from an oil field
•Ghidorah, the kaiju that surrounds itself in a titanic storm and weaponizes lightning and the weather, literally emerges from the melting antarctic ice cap in a metaphor for global warming disaster
•Humanity suppresses the nuclear Godzilla out of panic and fear of nuclear disaster, thus allowing Ghidorah and global warming to rise to supremacy
•Ghidorah immediately commands all of the other kaiju to terraform the Earth to his inhospitable liking
•Humans have to deliberately descend into Godzilla’s lair and activate dangerous nuclear devices in order to wake him from his hibernation and empower him to defeat Ghidorah
•Mothra, who grows to hydroelectric maturity beneath a waterfall and glows with solar power, fights side-by-side with Godzilla, the living nuclear reactor, in order to defeat Ghidorah
•The kaiju ecosystem, as corrected with human aid through Godzilla, ultimately restores the human environment and the mundane ecosystem to holistic balance and prosperity.

10/10, would watch sustainable energy beat up climate change again.

https://azdoine.tumblr.com/post/1857174 ... ate-change

So in conclusion -
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ppost5.jpg


That’s a very interesting interpretation of G:KotM’s subtext. It certainly fits the film and it’s in the same “forces of nature” sandbox as a lot of classic kaiju movies.


lhb412 wrote:And, as has been said before; the inversion of having Serizawa sacrificing himself by reviving Godzilla with a nuke to save the world is a certainly unintentional but nevertheless terrible middle finger to the themes of the characters of both Godzilla and Serizawa, as well as of the franchise overall. It turns out nuclear weapons are great! Glad we sorted that out. Even Godzilla vs. Megalon and Final Wars gave better respect to the central metaphor! And to have it done by the one Japanese member of the cast... it's so ignorant it's almost amazing.


That is a valid way to look at Serizawa's sacrifice in G:KotM. While Michael Dougherty and Ken Watanabe certainly didn't intend it that way, they weren't ignorant to the irony of the situation. At a press panel in Tokyo back in April, Watanabe said of that scene (via his translator): “So that scene was a very complicated scene for me. I used a pocket watch which had great significance because the pocket watch was something that was in possession of Serizawa’s father from the Japanese war when they dropped the nuclear bomb. It’s significant because Godzilla was born from nuclear but now Serizawa is using nuclear to revive him and it was a very complicated feeling for Serizawa to revive Godzilla using nuclear and also keeping in mind that Godzilla is ultimately needed to restore balance and help humankind.”

G'14 depicted the realistic likelihood of the military responding to giant rampaging monsters by quickly utilizing nuclear weapons. When that plan spiraled out of control almost immediately, it took the heroic actions of Godzilla, Ford Brody and the squad of soldiers to just barely prevent the complete nuclear obliteration of San Francisco. In G:KotM, the military seems to have actually taken nuclear weapons off the table as a possible response to monster rampages. Admiral Stenz does mention that they attempted to lure the newly awakened Titans with "nuclear materials," not necessarily explosive weapons, and of course they've clearly developed new kinds of experimental weapons like the Argo warship and the Oxygen Destroyer missile, but they don't even bring up the option of nuking any of the 17 giant beasts wreaking havoc around the world. That's a big about-face from their response in G'14 and that seems to show that they've learned from their mistakes with nuclear weapons.

When it comes to nuking Godzilla in order to revive him so he can save humanity and the planet, I think the angle is meant to be along the lines of Matthew 22:21: "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." The film openly depicts Godzilla and the other Titans as the basis for humanity's ancient gods and Godzilla represents nature itself. When Serizawa sacrifices himself to deliver the nuclear warhead to Godzilla, he's stepping up on behalf of humanity to complete the symbolic purging of the nuclear weapons option, by offering back the weaponized power of the atom directly to nature's emissary.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby goji4ever » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:46 pm

Watched the film again...
it went down easier, not as much a “disappointment”... noticed a few more details.. the “big” issues remain

-a proper monster on rampage scene is missing
-Rodan deserved better
-Not enough Ghidorah
-Mothra was there just to be there (as was Rodan).. Mothras sacrifice didnt have the desired effect cause it was rushed... if anything she should have enveloped Godzilla.. eaten a couple of blasts then flown in and gotten disintegrated.
-Ending still feels rushed, Godzilla goes Spicy Cheetoh then pulses to victory..

Chandlers character carries the human side well... not as visually or audio impressive as G14
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:41 am

I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.
Gills.

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gwangi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:17 pm

Guys, how did this "Kevin" thing get started with regards to the Ghidrah severed head? That concept seems to be the darling of social media. If I recall correctly, Bradley Whitford referred to Ghidrah as Larry, Moe & Curly. If anything, that severed head should rightly be called "Curly"! :mrgreen:
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