King Ghidorah - ruined already?

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King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby gretzky99 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:17 pm

His origin has always been from outer space - I don't agree with him already being here for how long? - and him and Godzilla squaring off already in history. The Tunguska event or Houston we have a problem - would have been much more logical explanations
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Mac » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:11 pm

Yeah, it's stupid. Hopefully it's just a "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" teaser that has nothing to do with the movie, i.e. most teasers.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:36 pm

For those wondering, this thread is about Skull Island's post-credits scene, so exit the thread now if you're trying to avoid information relating to that. (It's nothing really spoilery though.)


.....


So yeah, the folks at Monarch have a slideshow of ancient cave paintings depicting Rodan, Mothra, and King Ghidorah, and the last painting is of Ghidorah battling Godzilla. That's the long and short of it.

It's a hook for audiences who might not have been aware of the impending Godzilla vs. Kong or the fact that Legendary had licensed those other three Toho kaiju. It's not a surprise to anyone on this board.

The real revelation for us is one of narrative context. We now know that people in Legendary's Monsterverse have encountered Rodan, Mothra, and Ghidorah in the past, meaning they won't be "new" monsters to Monarch whenever they appear in the future. That doesn't mean Ghidorah is necessarily a terrestrial monster. He could have arrived on Earth inside the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs for all we know. Let's wait and see before declaring ruin. I'd prefer that Ghidorah come from outer space too but it's not like Toho hasn't ever depicted him as an Earth-born monster before.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Specium Ray » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:59 pm

If you think it's ruined based on the teaser, you were probably never going to like it anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby O.Supreme » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:06 pm

gretzky99 wrote:His origin has always been from outer space
Except for in ROM III, and GMK... :wink:
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby gretzky99 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:51 pm

I'd be disappointed if they went the gmk route explaining him. That's just me I guess. Unless he wiped out the entire dinosaur species then I'd rather have him come here recently.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Moonlight SY-3 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:10 pm

As O.Supreme alluded to above, Ghidorah was hanging out with (and munching on) dinos in Mothra 3, so there you go.

I don't see any "ruination" of the King Ghidorah character here so far. But I haven't seen the cave drawings yet...how do they look? I really don't give a crap where or when Ghidorah is from as long as he looks good.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby O.Supreme » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:29 pm

I'm sure KG will be well done well. I'm sure he will be scaled accurately to be larger than Godzilla, not smaller as he was in GMK. In fact the prospect has me kind of excited. I mean Godzilla in the MonsterVerse is HUGE! Even the female Muto was only about 2/3 his size, and currently we know Kong is only about 1/3 his size (unless something changes very soon). I can only image how gigantic KG will be.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Jorzilla » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:55 pm

The Heisei series already ruined King Ghidorah. I would still prefer him to be a space monster though.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Dr Kain » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:10 pm

O.Supreme wrote:
gretzky99 wrote:His origin has always been from outer space
Except for in ROM III, and GMK... :wink:


And in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if Ghidorah is a space monster or an Earth monster, as long as he has 3 heads, huge wings, no arms, and is gold. Oh, and beats the crap out of Godzilla.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby O.Supreme » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:58 pm

Jorzilla wrote:The Heisei series already ruined King Ghidorah. I would still prefer him to be a space monster though.


You know that never comes into my mind when I watch that film....so this proves that despite the Origin, KG can be very well done.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Baltan II » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:47 pm

gretzky99 wrote:I don't agree with him already being here for how long?


How do we know King Ghidorah stayed? Maybe its next appearance is a repeat visit to a Earth with a lot less apex super-monsters running around. Literally the only information the spoiler reveals is that it was here once, encountered Godzilla, and somebody was around to record their appearance. We know nothing yet about KG's origin, purpose, abilities, level of intelligence, how many exist or if it's one-of-a-kind, or even how its last encounter with Godzilla went. As for the lone concrete information we do have about Ghidorah, how is that substantial enough to come anywhere near the conclusion that it's somehow ruined? If anything, this leaves opportunity for a pre-existing rivalry or even a grudge, which could only make the resulting conflict that slightly more fun.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Jinzo Ningen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:53 am

Moonlight SY-3 wrote:As O.Supreme alluded to above, Ghidorah was hanging out with (and munching on) dinos in Mothra 3, so there you go.

I don't see any "ruination" of the King Ghidorah character here so far. But I haven't seen the cave drawings yet...how do they look? I really don't give a crap where or when Ghidorah is from as long as he looks good.


Crude cave painting is spot-on KG. 3 horned heads, huge wings and larger than G by about 20% or so. And I disagree that just because the cave paintings were found that it means any recent human has seen him, only that paintings were discovered indicating the presence of more giant monsters than previously thought.

I endorse the 'arrived in the asteroid that wiped out all the dinos' angle. It's a simple backstory set-up that's quick to explain without a boatlaod of gobbledygook psuedo science "proof" ...and in a sentence or two underscores just how powerful KG is.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby klen7 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:23 pm

Baltan II wrote:
gretzky99 wrote:I don't agree with him already being here for how long?


How do we know King Ghidorah stayed? Maybe its next appearance is a repeat visit to a Earth with a lot less apex super-monsters running around. Literally the only information the spoiler reveals is that it was here once, encountered Godzilla, and somebody was around to record their appearance. We know nothing yet about KG's origin, purpose, abilities, level of intelligence, how many exist or if it's one-of-a-kind, or even how its last encounter with Godzilla went. As for the lone concrete information we do have about Ghidorah, how is that substantial enough to come anywhere near the conclusion that it's somehow ruined? If anything, this leaves opportunity for a pre-existing rivalry or even a grudge, which could only make the resulting conflict that slightly more fun.

This. It could even be prophetic. Nothing more than a teaser
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby lhb412 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:55 pm

Speaking of which: it'd be nice if we had some clear images of the cave painting from the end credits scene so's we can better speculate about the final designs of Mothra, Rodan, and King Ghidorah.

Also: after the outlandish elements of Kong: Skull Island and with Mike Dougherty in charge of the next movie I think any outlandish elements could be in play in terms of sci-fi and fantasy elements. Ghidorah could be an alien, could be a more demonic entity, or might be something in between.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Hybrid Gojira » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:41 am

A teaser is really nothing to take serious - movies have teased sequences before and backed away from them for various reasons (see the teaser at the end of X-Men Apocalypse and then watch Logan). Also, Screen Rant reported today that they almost cut the After Credits scene completely.

According to Vogt-Roberts, there was a time when the post-credits scene was actually pulled from the film at the behest of Legendary, only to later be restored. As Vogt-Roberts told CinemaBlend:

“We shot that during production, and it was actually one of those things that they had taken off the movie at one point. For some reason, there was concern about it, and I was really happy when everyone decided let’s bring this back. I think that’s what people want to know is happening.”


It sounds very much like LP is still fleshing out what they want to do with these monsters, and besides, nothing says that KG and G couldn't have fought in the past and KG left only to return from space now...OR who cares if he's not from space? I'm more concerned about him being a destroyer than whether he's from space, even though that is his best origin. Complaining about it when we know nothing about the film 2 years away is just...eh.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby jellydonut25 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:26 am

I actually loved hearing that it was almost pulled but wound up being put back in.


Seems like if they thought about pulling it they weren't so sure about the future and didn't want to promise and not deliver...putting it back in makes it feel like a commitment then.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby lhb412 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:45 am

If Dougherty was in charge of the MonsterVerse writers room before being promoted to being in charge of Godzilla: King of the Monsters entirely I can't help but think the cave drawings were his idea.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Bluejira » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:39 am

Jinzo Ningen wrote:
Moonlight SY-3 wrote:As O.Supreme alluded to above, Ghidorah was hanging out with (and munching on) dinos in Mothra 3, so there you go.

I don't see any "ruination" of the King Ghidorah character here so far. But I haven't seen the cave drawings yet...how do they look? I really don't give a crap where or when Ghidorah is from as long as he looks good.


Crude cave painting is spot-on KG. 3 horned heads, huge wings and larger than G by about 20% or so. And I disagree that just because the cave paintings were found that it means any recent human has seen him, only that paintings were discovered indicating the presence of more giant monsters than previously thought.

I endorse the 'arrived in the asteroid that wiped out all the dinos' angle. It's a simple backstory set-up that's quick to explain without a boatlaod of gobbledygook psuedo science "proof" ...and in a sentence or two underscores just how powerful KG is.

I agree with your idea but would change the timeline. He arrived in an asteroid at the end of the last ice age. Caused the melting of the ice and extinction of the mega fauna that happened around 12,000 years ago. Native Americans recorded the fight on cave walls. They will find further evidence or incorporate end world mythology about his appearance. This will up the ante making his arrival a potential extinction level event. Classic Ghidorah in the Legendary Monsterverse.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby GFan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:58 am

I personally LOVE the idea that Godzilla has fought King Ghidorah before in this timeline. I'm okay with him not being alien. That's a helluva better origin than being 3 future-pets fused together from an atomic blast...
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Moonlight SY-3 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:21 am

Jinzo Ningen wrote:
Moonlight SY-3 wrote:As O.Supreme alluded to above, Ghidorah was hanging out with (and munching on) dinos in Mothra 3, so there you go.

I don't see any "ruination" of the King Ghidorah character here so far. But I haven't seen the cave drawings yet...how do they look? I really don't give a crap where or when Ghidorah is from as long as he looks good.


Crude cave painting is spot-on KG. 3 horned heads, huge wings and larger than G by about 20% or so.

Thanks for the confirmation. Sounds good to me!
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Gojira-2000 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:45 am

lhb412 wrote:If Dougherty was in charge of the MonsterVerse writers room before being promoted to being in charge of Godzilla: King of the Monsters entirely I can't help but think the cave drawings were his idea.


They seemed to be toing and froing about exactly what they wanted it to be as well, as Jordan Vogt-Roberts puts it:

“We went through a bunch of iterations of what that scene should be. Honestly, initially the scene was like gonna be them in the middle of like the Arctic Ocean and they actually were gonna see like Godzilla surfacing and coming up and I wanted to use our budget for the actual movie, not the post-credits tag. So I think I pitched them the idea of like, well, what if they’re in this cool looking conference or this like containment facility? Then they’re looking at stuff on like a projector. But we always knew there was gonna be something there. It was meant to be like a much more robust scene.”


“If they saw Godzilla though, it also would have broke the narrative of Godzilla because they said they hadn’t seen it in that long. So there became a logic issue we were trying to deal with.”


http://www.slashfilm.com/kong-skull-island-credits-scene-explained/
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby EricDent » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:23 pm

Just in case, here's my description on what they looked like.

Mothra was depicted as a large pure white moth/butterfly, I didn't notice any of the classic "spots" on her wings.
There wasn't any indication of any "fairies" were involved either.

Rodan looked kinda similar to a black/dark brown shadow, with the traditional horns/wings look.
No indication of of he was Fire Rodan, or not.

Godzilla looked like 2014 Godzilla.

King Ghidorah was mostly a design of the three-heads, and later showed him flying while Godzilla used his breath towards him. Didn't indicate if he was gold or not (I would assume primatives had yellow paint). In fact he was more of a shadow as well, with kinda a blue color.

I just got back from the movie.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby Dai » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:49 pm

I wouldn't read too much into the cave paintings. To me, it looked like they kept the designs intentionally vague so that they didn't have to lock anything in at this early stage. Considering Legendary's director-driven approach, I seriously doubt that designs for any of the Toho kaiju have been finalised yet, and possibly not even their origins. It was just a cool little teaser to bring the mainstream audience up to speed on the fact that Skull Island is in the same continuity as Godzilla, and that there's more coming. Sure, the references earlier in the film about Monarch and nuclear 'tests' were obvious links to fans, but they will have flown over Joe Casual's head. Remember that Godzilla's name isn't mentioned even once in Skull Island.
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Re: King Ghidorah - ruined already?

Postby davezilla » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:25 am

You guys are forgetting that cave drawings can be interpreted not as just images of the past but maybe a prediction of the future. Maybe its the latter?
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