So assuming this DOES become a new series, will Toho...

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So assuming this DOES become a new series, will Toho...

Postby The Top Crusader » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:02 pm

...bother to make their own Godzilla film at any point while its ongoing?

I'm not particularly a fan of any of the Millennium films (some are better than others, though), but... it has been about 10 years, I am missing a Toho produced Godzilla film. It's hard to imagine they would start up while Legendary is in the midst of a series... but since we probably will have 2 or 3 years at least between each entry from Legendary, that moves the prospects of a new Toho film pretty far out there. :?
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Postby Gman2887 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:35 pm

I don't think Toho is interested in producing Godzilla movies of their own for the time being-- if ever again. It's just not in the cards, especially if Legendary is going to do all the work for them.

Plus, in 1998, I think the agreement was that an American and Japanese Godzilla series can not go on at the same time. Who knows if there's the same deal here, but I doubt it matters since Toho isn't planning on doing that any time soon.
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Postby Cookie » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:58 pm

Something I would find cool for Legendary to do would be to do a "serious" series like they're doing now, and at the same time release "kiddie" kind of G films every December. That would be a really cool way to do these films over here.... now I know this will never happen, just a hope of mine.
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Postby MekaGojira3k » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:09 pm

Cookson wrote:Something I would find cool for Legendary to do would be to do a "serious" series like they're doing now, and at the same time release "kiddie" kind of G films every December. That would be a really cool way to do these films over here.... now I know this will never happen, just a hope of mine.


I feel like that'd oversaturate the market and pretty much destroy any chance of a longrunning franchise.
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Postby Gargantuan Gargantua » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:19 pm

This is going to sound stupid, but I'd love to see Toho make another Man in suit kaiju film, just not Godzilla related. Remake the least popular ones like Gappa or hell, let Higuchi make a full length movie on the hairy monster Gehara. ;P I'd do a backflip if Tarintino did War of the Gargantuas with men in suits. He seems to under stand that era of movies and make something cheesy awesome with exceptional dialogue. Plus he said he was a fan.

But they can stay away from Godzilla, they DONT get it as far as making the movie. Going back to the states, whether this movie is good or not, was the smartest decision they have made in a long time.
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Postby kiryugoji04 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:33 pm

Don't give Higuchi Taguchi's film! D:<

I mean, I want Higuchi to do more tokusatsu for sure but I'd much rather a Geharha feature be directed by Taguchi since he was the original director and all.
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Postby Jorzilla » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:21 pm

It's kind of depressing to think, but I agree: If this film is successful it will be awhile until we get another Toho Godzilla film.

I wonder who will around if they ever revive the Japanese Godzilla?
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Postby Hybrid Gojira » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:22 pm

If this film is successful we will get another American Godzilla movie (hopefully).
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Postby Pkmatrix » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:49 am

If Legendary Godzilla is successful enough to warrant a sequel, then I think we may see Toho make one of their own to ride on the sequel's coattails. They'd, in effect, be doing a "mockbuster" of their own franchise - like, Godzilla 2 in May 2017 and Toho's new Godzilla in November or December 2017.

Technically, it's not a bad idea. Worst case scenario, they'd end up oversaturating the Japanese market. Best case scenario, though, it could be a huge success: HUGE profits from the Legendary/Universal movie, then a smaller bump from their own movie later that year.

The real question is: if they did this, how would they do it? Would they give Suitmation another shot? Or would they follow the American films' lead and go all CGI? What sort of movie could (or should) Toho try to make to maximize coattail hanging? Set it in the same universe or no? Go for a similar tone or something lighter?

I think if it does happen, expect it to be announced the year before Godzilla 2 comes out. Whether or not they make any more probably depends on how that one does, and if it proves profitable enough to be worthwhile.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:39 am

As stated elsewhere, I'm good with Toho putting Godzilla to bed for a long while. In my lifetime, yeah, I'd like to see them give it another go, but I don't think I'd want it this decade...or maybe even next...
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Re: So assuming this DOES become a new series, will Toho...

Postby ebirahsmeg1 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:25 pm

The Top Crusader wrote:...bother to make their own Godzilla film at any point while its ongoing?


Nope
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:39 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:As stated elsewhere, I'm good with Toho putting Godzilla to bed for a long while. In my lifetime, yeah, I'd like to see them give it another go, but I don't think I'd want it this decade...or maybe even next...
My only concern is that if they end up holding off too long, all of the key players of the original series' will be retired or dead. The continuity of master/apprentice will be broken.

Who would be around to carry the torch of the originals?
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:43 pm

Jorzilla wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:As stated elsewhere, I'm good with Toho putting Godzilla to bed for a long while. In my lifetime, yeah, I'd like to see them give it another go, but I don't think I'd want it this decade...or maybe even next...
My only concern is that if they end up holding off too long, all of the key players of the original series' will be retired or dead. The continuity of master/apprentice will be broken.

Who would be around to carry the torch of the originals?
what original series people were involved in any significant way in the millenium series?
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:50 pm

There was only a 4 year gap between Destroyah and G2K. While I don't know for certain, I'm sure that a lot of the SPFX people important studied under the important people for Heisei, and the same for Showa to Heisei.

My point is that people like Koichi Kawakita is already in his 70s. The important people of the Millennium series are probably in their late 50s by now. If you end up waiting another 10-20 years none of the Heisei people will be around and very few of the Millennium people will be around.

The end result is that there would be a break in continuity in the SPFX shop. By then special and visual effects will obviously be cheaper and better, but it wouldn't be a natural progression. Toho would be forced to start with a new crew almost completely. I mean even Shogo Tomiyama is 61. In 20 years do you still think he'll be around?
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:54 pm

Maybe its just me, but I'm surprised how hostile some people are to another Toho film. I don't think Toho didn't do anything to deserve the scorn of fans. They didn't lose their right to make Godzilla films. They tried their best to revitalize a classic series for a modern era, using the tools and resources they had available. While some people really hate that they re-used staple characters, it was the best way they knew how to get people in theater seats (historically).

I don't think we need to punish or scorn Toho. We haven't seen what Legendary is actually doing yet some are already bidding farewell to the house that created the monster.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:59 pm

Jorzilla wrote:The end result is that there would be a break in continuity
GOOD.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:03 pm

Jorzilla wrote:They tried their best
false.
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:12 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:They tried their best
false.
Considering the references to source materials. Hiring fans of the series to direct the movies. Trying to capture new audiences by pitching Godzilla with a popular cartoon. Using classic story-lines and characters to get the nostalgia factor and series references flowing....

I mean to some people that can look like they are painting by numbers, but I see it as more of a business decision.

They were trying to find the right combination of elements to continue Godzilla. After failed box office results they were unable to find the winning formula (even after hiring a hot-shot, popular, westernized director making the longest running time film with a US premier). While the Millennium series eventually tread old ground, this was after the first two films featured new monsters and story lines.

Toho did not license the character to some Saturday morning kids show. They have one of the most popular film franchises of all time (in Japan for sure), and despite multiple combinations of film types, and marketing schemes, audiences didn't respond to the films.

I don't know what that looks like to you, but that certainly looks like an organization that's trying to keep their key IP updated and relevant to new audiences.

P.S. I honestly believe that the majority of the Millennium films have more heart and entertainment value than the majority of the Heisei films.
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Postby Shin_Edda_Robo!!!!! » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:13 pm

I can see Jorzilla's point of view.

Not one person here cares to see a new Godzilla movie from Toho save for the OP and Jorzilla.

That said, I also think we will never ever see a Japanese Godzilla movie ever again.

The Japanese just don't like him, and I doubt a A grade Hollywood movie would change their opinion on him either.

I would still like to see a Godzilla TV series in the same vein as something produced by Tsuburaya.

A lot of people would not like to go in that direction, but "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!" them.


Suitmation monster fights and a serial storyline would be nice, in an albeit smaller medium. I'd be all for a new Tokusatsu TV franchise.

There needs to be more to Tokusatsu TV than Sentai and Kamen Rider. Ultraman returning is something of an event considering how often they make them (one every few years). GARO is cool, and I'd like to see more Tokusatsu TV series that aren't Sentai or Kamen Rider. A Godzilla TV series or a new Metal Heroes would be a cool place to start.

The last time Tokusatsu was the most diverse was in 2006? 2005?
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:16 pm

I feel like I woke up in crazy town. How is an unproven movie better than the established studio who created the series?

When did Toho suddenly lose fan support behind creating films???
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:17 pm

Jorzilla wrote:business decision.
exactly.

not 'trying their best' to make good movies. trying their best to make as much money with as little investment as possible.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:19 pm

Jorzilla wrote:How is an unproven movie better than the established studio who created the series?
because the established studio is making mediocre movies.

in the case of movies, it's better the devil i DON'T know than the devil i do.

I'd rather see some movie that from previews LOOKS LIKE it might be bad but from a bunch of unknowns than go see a Michael Bay movie.
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:21 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:business decision.
exactly.

not 'trying their best' to make good movies. trying their best to make as much money with as little investment as possible.
You do realize that all movies are made because marketing and accounting got together and decided that it would be profitable to make a venture?

No one makes a special effects film for the sheer factor of making a piece of artwork.

Hell the first Godzilla movie was only made because Toho wanted to shake Japanese audiences down for the money they were throwing at King Kong an Beast from 20,000 Fathoms. They just happened to make it their own in the end.
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Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:24 pm

Jorzilla wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:business decision.
exactly.

not 'trying their best' to make good movies. trying their best to make as much money with as little investment as possible.
You do realize that all movies are made because marketing and accounting got together and decided that it would be profitable to make a venture?

No one makes a special effects film for the sheer factor of making a piece of artwork.

Hell the first Godzilla movie was only made because Toho wanted to shake Japanese audiences down for the money they were throwing at King Kong an Beast from 20,000 Fathoms. They just happened to make it their own in the end.


there's a difference between a profitable venture and a shameless cash grab.

Pacific Rim was made because someone at the top thought it would be profitable. But it was made with care and dedication and earnestness.

Transformers 4 is being made because someone knows they can make a sh*tload of money with little effort.

Gojira was made with care and earnestness and creativity.

GMK was made to put butts in the seats with Mothra and King Ghidorah and an animated hamster.

Pairing a Godzilla film with an animated hamster movie is NOT an earnest attempt to do their best. If they wanted Godzilla to be popular again, they should have tried the "INSANE" tactic of actually making good movies.

EDIT:
Just to illustrate.
"Hey, I made this really mediocre movie."
'That wont work, we need people to go see this so it can make money!'
"Well, I can try to make it better..."
'No...just throw something else that's vaguely popular in with it, that will get people to go and we won't even have to spend much time or money to do it'
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Postby Jorzilla » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:32 pm

jellydonut25 wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:
Jorzilla wrote:business decision.
exactly.

not 'trying their best' to make good movies. trying their best to make as much money with as little investment as possible.
You do realize that all movies are made because marketing and accounting got together and decided that it would be profitable to make a venture?

No one makes a special effects film for the sheer factor of making a piece of artwork.

Hell the first Godzilla movie was only made because Toho wanted to shake Japanese audiences down for the money they were throwing at King Kong an Beast from 20,000 Fathoms. They just happened to make it their own in the end.


there's a difference between a profitable venture and a shameless cash grab.

Please enlighten me on the difference, because that sounds like someone's opinion on the quality of the output and not the original impetus for creation.

jellydonut25 wrote:Pacific Rim was made because someone at the top thought it would be profitable. But it was made with care and dedication and earnestness.

Agreed, but it also was a large gamble that looks like it's not going to pay-off. You can't really blame a studio for trying to play it safe when anything they do which is original has a high chance for a big failure.

jellydonut25 wrote:Transformers 4 is being made because someone knows they can make a sh*tload of money with little effort.
Transformers 4 will still have a mega budget, employing thousands of people and a large team of SPFX artists. They might have a sure bet in the box office, but don't just be 'little effort.'

jellydonut25 wrote:Gojira was made with care and earnestness and creativity.

My honest opinion: While it's true Godzilla was made with references to war and the horrors of the atom bomb, it's not different than a movie like the Avenger's plastering 9/11 references in action sequences because it resonates with the audience. Both were made roughly 10 years after the initial event which inspired the action sequences of the movie. The only difference is that the Avengers has not had an opportunity to become romanticized, but if I'm alive in 50 years I'd like to sit in on a film class which talks about the symbolism of the Avengers or another comic-book movie. That's the situation Godzilla is in now.

jellydonut25 wrote:GMK was made to put butts in the seats with Mothra and King Ghidorah and an animated hamster.
I'll agree that GMK was eventually modified into that, but the story was still an original take on the character (which surprise surprise, some people think was wrong).
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