TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILERS -

[lhb412]

^ I think Dougherty tweeted something about it.

Giving the other heads impressive-sounding names only to bestow the third head with Kevin? I I think I remember something like that.

[jellydonut25]

He jokingly said they were Ichi (One) Ni (Two) and Kevin, and the fandom has run wild with it.

[Gwangi]

Thanks fellas! All of this (at least for me), just came out of left field, leaving me to wonder, what the heck are they using that name for this severed head? For me, I will just leave it as "the severed head"!

[Rody]

Here's the post that started it: https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1136289119729016833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1136289119729016833&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicbook.com%2Fanime%2F2019%2F06%2F07%2Fgodzilla-king-ghidorah-heads-names-revealed-michael-dougherty%2F

Center head: Ichi; Right head: Ni; Left head: San... aka Kevin.

...So I saw the film twice in theaters - enjoyed both showings a lot, albeit not quite as much as I would have liked. It's a big, fun movie, but it lacks pretty much any nuance or finese in storytelling, which is part of what I thought made the 2014 film special. Coincidental or not, I do think the film potentially carries a "man vs. nature" message in a different sort of way than is typically told: rather than saying "save the environment!", per se, it says something more like "the environment will take care of itself". There seem to be common threads between human protagonists and antagonists alike, in that every time humanity tries to "fix" a problem, they only seem to make things worse (including nuking Godzilla and nearly causing him to explode by accident). Sadly, the script never lets us dwell on these things; there are several moments where even a single line of dialogue might have added some weight, but we get nothing. I can't blame some fans for really hating this film, because it really does carry a lot of the issues from the 90s films and possibly exacerbate them, albeit with much nicer effects scenes to try disguising them. That said, Godzilla movies ARE about spectacle at least partly, and the film delivers pretty well about that.

My pros:

1. The themes, THE THEMES!! Rodan's new theme is a great action/thriller piece, Ghidorah's theme is pretty eerie, and ohhhhhh man, the revamped Ifukube and Koseki themes are to die for. Mothra's theme got me WAY more worked up than I ever would have expected it to.
2. Mothra herself is a total show-stealer too. All of the big 4 have considerable screen presence, but Mothra takes the cake. She doesn't have the best design, but she absolutely takes the spotlight!
3. Rodan's awakening is a highlight of the film, although I have mixed feelings about him losing and submitting to Ghidorah so quickly. I suppose since he did explicitly challenge Ghidorah to start, it balances out?
4. I like most of the changes to Godzilla's design; he's a bit bigger and more imposing now. I liked the super-long tail, though. I was surprised to hear the classic 60s/70s roar mixed in the 2014 sounds.
5. I really do think the film has the potential to say something interesting about our relationship with the planet's environment; honestly I especially liked the choice of framing the villains as environmental extremists. Sometimes I get the feeling people like that really do exist, and that just distorts the perspective further. For all we talk about harming the environment, there's also still a lot we just don't know yet, and we need to be careful about what actions we take one way or the other.
6. I did find the overall cast of human characters more engaging this time; and the reference to the twins was delightful. Actually, it occurred to me that we have a much stronger gender and race representation in this film than before (not super-important to me, but it's nice all the same).

The cons:

1. This movie is big and loud - a bit too loud. music, sound effects, and roars tend to blur together to the detraction of all. It's definitely a step down from 2014.
2. A lot of scenes are shot just a little too closely for ideal action viewing, and the storm visuals, while a neat concept for Ghidorah, further obscure details just a little too much. Another step down from 2014.
3. The humor sucks - all of it just sucks.
4. Again, the script seems sloppy in a lot of places - too much going on with not enough time to really reflect on anything.
5. The Oxygen Destroyer out of nowhere and the nuke plan to save Godzilla are definitely awkward moments which look like they fly in the face of the franchise; again, just a little bit of foreshadowing or reflection might have helped both scenes (e.g. Serizawa and Stenz considering the irony of the plan when Serizawa tried to STOP Stenz from doing nearly the same thing 5 years ago - albeit to kill the monsters, not revive them).
6. Poor Dr. Graham. While not as criminal as was PR:U did, I was still bummed they took her out like that, and so abruptly too (I actually missed it the first time).

What I really do like, however, is hearing both here and elsewhere that, apparently, all of the kids seeing this movie are really liking it; and let's be real here, how many of us were paying attention to political commentary in these films at age 7 or 11? This movie definitely has problems, but it just might end up doing a lot of good for the franchise's longevity.

[Benjamin Haines]

I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.

Where did they say that?

This is what Michael Dougherty said at the April press conference when asked why it was special for him to work on a Godzilla movie:

Godzilla sort of provided this weird security blanket because he was so strong, he was so powerful, but besides the fact that it was entertaining and fun, I was keenly aware even at that young age that there was a message underneath all of it, and I heard that, and that meant a lot. In the same way that Star Wars is really a movie about spirituality if you dissect it, Godzilla had this oddly subversive message to it. So that resonated and the fact that it was made by other Asian people just meant a lot and so I wanted to continue that.

[jellydonut25]

I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.

Where did they say that?

The art book.

I'll find the actual quote later, but they ask point-blank what the message is and he says, "I think it's about not bringing your baggage to work."

EDIT: it wasn't Dougherty, it was the co-writer Zach Shields.
From the art book:
"So, is the film's message that extreme eco-activism is a good thing, but you must do your research first? Shields laughs, 'I think the moral, to me anyway, is that at its heart it goes back to the family, which is: deal with your crap, don't bring it to work.' "

That boggles my damn mind.

[oaklord]

It was worse than I imagined. I'm parroting another critic here, but it really does feel like a Heisei Godzilla film.

I will be happy when this bombs and we can be done with American Godzilla once and for all.

You no invitation to speak for me or anyone

[UltraDada72]

Watched the film again...
it went down easier, not as much a “disappointment”... noticed a few more details.. the “big” issues remain

-a proper monster on rampage scene is missing
-Rodan deserved better
-Not enough Ghidorah
-Mothra was there just to be there (as was Rodan).. Mothras sacrifice didnt have the desired effect cause it was rushed... if anything she should have enveloped Godzilla.. eaten a couple of blasts then flown in and gotten disintegrated.
-Ending still feels rushed, Godzilla goes Spicy Cheetoh then pulses to victory..

Chandlers character carries the human side well... not as visually or audio impressive as G14

I was so annoyed with how they portrayed Rodan in this film. He was the kaiju I was looking forward to most, and after a pretty good introduction, he gets beaten by Ghidorah, becomes his "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!", then gets his ass handed to him by Mothra, and ends the film as an obedient little puppy to Godzilla. Ugh! I also didn't like that all the monster scenes kept getting interrupted by clips of the humans running, reacting, explaining what's happening on screen (as if we can't tell), etc.

[UltraDada72]

But, at the very least the monster scenes are worth it, right? Sadly, I found most of them quite poor. There are excellent, beautifully composed shots of the monsters which have largely been seen in the promotional material. But taken as whole sequences in the film these scenes are undercut by certain bad technical and creative choices. First of all, almost every shot of the monsters is only a few seconds long only to cut to human reaction shot of equal length before cutting back to the monsters. This disjointed approach makes it very difficult to appreciate the fights as fights. Fights are storytelling, they must be followed and understood. These fights are a barely connected sequence of things that people thought were cool shots or moments without the care of being cohesive storytelling. They're also undermined buy inconsistent framing and shot choices often revolving around having the human heroes being directly underfoot of fighting monsters and miraculously (mostly) being able to make it out relatively unharmed despite the fact that even the most generous audience member would expect instant death from this close proximity. It makes the drama less dramatic when we can't buy the peril and it awkwardly effects our perspective of the monster battles so it ends up making the sequences seem even less realistic then the most basic man in suit fight! Unfortunately, it feels like Doigherty is trying to replicate the tricks Edwards used just such great effect at the end of the 2014 film, which just goes to show what a meticulous, even brilliant visual storyteller Edwards is.

So happy to hear someone else say this. The monster scenes kept getting ruined by cuts to the human characters. The story, script and characters were all bad, but they could've at least given us some decent monster scenes and fights that were really mind blowing. The world was under siege by monsters and not once did any of it feel like a real threat due to the badly composed action scenes. I'm really hoping the next film is better assembled instead of feeling like a bunch of ideas tossed together with no rhyme or reason like this film felt.

[jellydonut25]

I'm really hoping the next film is better assembled instead of feeling like a bunch of ideas tossed together with no rhyme or reason like this film felt.

I wouldn't get your hopes too high for that. The Monsterverse, such as it is, lacks a captain and a singular driving force, and as such, it's just a bunch of people pooling their ideas together and going with what "works"

[Benjamin Haines]

I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.

Where did they say that?

The art book.

I'll find the actual quote later, but they ask point-blank what the message is and he says, "I think it's about not bringing your baggage to work."

EDIT: it wasn't Dougherty, it was the co-writer Zach Shields.
From the art book:
"So, is the film's message that extreme eco-activism is a good thing, but you must do your research first? Shields laughs, 'I think the moral, to me anyway, is that at its heart it goes back to the family, which is: deal with your crap, don't bring it to work.' "

That boggles my damn mind.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that. I don't have the art book yet but it sounds like the interviewer is asking specifically about Emma Russell's plot to release the Titans to "help" the planet and the fact that Earth does seem to be better off by film's end with all of the Titans awakened. Zach Shields seems to be saying that the moral of Emma's story is that she shouldn't have let the tragedy of losing her son lead her to become an eco-terrorist mole within Monarch. Shields is decidedly shooting down the notion that the film says extreme eco-activism is a good thing.

I hope that Dougherty and Shields record an audio commentary for the BRD/DVD release. G'14 didn't have one but Kong: Skull Island did.

[Stadawim]

What I really do like, however, is hearing both here and elsewhere that, apparently, all of the kids seeing this movie are really liking it; and let's be real here, how many of us were paying attention to political commentary in these films at age 7 or 11? This movie definitely has problems, but it just might end up doing a lot of good for the franchise's longevity.

I dig this. I feel this is where we've all come to now that we've grown up. We can't properly enjoy this movie anymore. We're falling into the 'critic' mode where we analyzing this to death instead of just enjoying it for what it is; a kaiju slobberknocking fest. There's lots of people of course talking story line. Talking how the human characters don't factor well. Talking how audios and visuals were a mix of too bombastic and elusive at the same time. But where were we when Godzilla vHedorah came out? Or vGigan? Or even Revenge? Sure, theaters back then probably didn't do loud too well. And lord knows Toho knew how to showcase their product better back then; lots of Showa battles took place in (get this!) broad daylight. Wasn't it Lt Togashi in 2002's MechaGodzilla that asks "why do we always have to do this in the rain"? Later films kept monster battles and appearances in the stormy dark a lot. For good reason production reasons, just not for filmgoers. But maybe we're focusing on the humans in these movies simply because they're actually American. I mean when the movies are subbed, and to a lesser extent dubbed, it's easier to kinda slough off whatever they're saying and doing because you don't want to read. Plus you can't understand them anyway. But now that we can all follow along, we CAN analyze their phrases that much more.
I don't know. I'm not ranting really, but just thrown by peoples' perception of this movie. While i don't consider it top tier, it is really good. Because there's so much more realistic-looking kaiju action, i'd put it above most Showa series, and a smattering of Heisei and 'Millenium' series.

[XvGojira]

Realized I never put my two cents in here either. I enjoyed the heck out of the film. After my first viewing I was very much overly hyped about it. 10/10, Best evar! etc etc. But the more I thought on it, the more I mellowed. Honestly, I think it's going to end up as an average rated/ranked in my book. While I understand why some hate it, I don't find those elements offensive enough to knock it further. I found the characters watchable and entertaining even if they were just boilerplate, paint-by-numbers, characters. I never had a hard time following the monster action in this film but I will say that no matter what he does Michael Dougherty couldn't capture the same majestic feeling Edwards did when he filmed the monsters. It just feels like he was trying to make it more "cool" than majestic. And it really felt like he was throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the movie. Almost like this was the one and only chance to get these elements into the series before it ends. The Oxygen Destroyer, a form of Burning Godzilla, barely touched on world-wide monster mayhem. All he was missing was a form of Godzilla offspring, a mech, and an alien invasion to hit all the standard Godzilla tropes. It does make GvK's supposedly one-on-one brawl seem insignificant, like if the next F&F movie only used motocross bikes.

The "their radiation heals the world" came out of nowhere to me and took me out of the film. It happened at close to the mid point of the movie so I wasn't expecting such an important plot point to be pulled out thin air. If it was referenced in the exposition dump news cast or the Senate hearing at the front of the film I could have accepted it more.

Dr. Serizawa's sacrifice didn't seem needed to me. With how big the explosion was it seemed like they could have just set a timer on the nuke and dropped it where the sub was (or shot it out in the vehicle Serizawa was sent in) and had the same affect on Godzilla. I mean if it exploded and only took out the chamber Godzilla was chilling in, sure then I could see it needing to be point blank. But it destroyed all of "Atlantis", so I don't think being a mile (or less than by my impression of the distance) would make THAT much of a difference. So, let me put my tinfoil hat on, with Legendary being bought by the Chinese conglomerate Wanda and having killed off a fan favorite Japanese character played by a Japanese actor and having a Chinese actor in a bigger role in one of their other "franchises" it makes me suspicious of them killing off another fan favorite Japanese character played by a Japanese actor and having a Chinese actor playing a prominent role (technically two roles but one is less prominent but also acts as an Easter egg/fan service) yet again. Will Ken Watanabe be killed off and replaced again in the Detective Pikachu sequel? Sorry, I just like Ken and Serizawa and felt that his death was needless and motivated more by Chinese interests than improving the movie. I mean, we went from having Serizawa/Watanabe and Graham/Hawkins heading Monarch/this franchise to having Kyle Chandler and Millie Bobby Brown. I thought Kyle played Mark as best he could and his character is more watchable than Ford Brody, and I like Millie Bobby Brown but Madison didn't do a lot for the majority of the film (and sort of being in on the eco-terrorist thing muddles it all up). I don't think their characters can bring the same gravitas that Watanabe or Hawkins did to their roles, as minor as they were in both films.

Although I will say I am probably one of the few people that liked Bradley Whitford/Dr. Stanton. He's just one of those actors who I enjoy watching.

I feel like if there was someone who was over seeing the franchise as a whole (eg Marvel Studios Movies) and not installment to installment (eg DC movies) they might have reigned Dougherty in and created a bit more of a focused film that might have presented the characters and their motives better and might have had more room to check in on the other Titans and give the movie a more global feel. And it would have been nice to have some main locations that weren't just Monarch bases/vehicles.

The sound design is mostly great. Love that they brought Godzilla standard roar into the mix along with his new roar. Mothra sound pitch perfect but Ghidorah and Rodan are a tad lacking. There are moments (but not enough) when there's some elements that makes him sound a bit more unique than a modern generic dragon/monster roar. It's like they were afraid general audiences wouldn't like an updated version of his cackle so they hid it under so much mixing and other sounds that you can only really hear it once or twice and becomes more of an Easter egg than anything else. But Rodan just sounds like modern stock monster roar. Like if you put together a mix of modern monster roars, I'd have a hard time telling if it was Ghidorah, Rodan, or one of the Pacific Rim kaiju.

So yeah, in the long run this is just smack dab in the middle. An enjoyable and fun with more compelling characters than in the previous film, not horrendous, boring, or offensive but nowhere near top tier.

[lhb412]

R.I.P. Anguirus



https://mobile.twitter.com/resurrection ... 7438681088

[TerranigmaFreak]

R.I.P. Anguirus



https://mobile.twitter.com/resurrection ... 7438681088

Let's be real, we were never going to see him on the big screen. This is as good a tribute as we're gonna get. I'll take it.

[tbeasley]

[klen7]

[Benjamin Haines]

I'm reminded of how the body of Kameba that washes ashore in Godzilla: Tokyo SOS was originally going to be the body of Anguirus until Shogo Tomiyama objected because he knew that fans would be upset. I think the real problem there was that Anguirus hadn't made a film appearance since 1974 at that time and a quick cameo as a corpse would have been unbecoming. His return in Godzilla: Final Wars the following year was much more satisfying.

The undersea Anguirus skeleton in Godzilla: King of the Monsters seems less like the Kameba cameo and more like the Godzilla skeleton at the beginning of G'14. That Anguirus lived in ancient times. Maybe it was a Godzilla Raids Again situation with Godzilla and Anguirus fighting to the death in the heart of the city.

[jellydonut25]

Dougherty said in an interview he wanted to use as many Toho monsters as possible but each one comes with its own price tag so they couldn't...so he probably just snuck in that because he wanted to use Anguirus where Scylla or Behemoth or Methusela are but couldn't.

[O.Supreme]

^ Agreed. I'm pretty sure, if allowed to, all those cameos would have been TOHO Kaiju rather than original creations, for good or ill. Despite all this however, I still really enjoy this film. It gave me exactly what I wanted/expected. No more, no less. In this day and age, that is a blessing.

[daikaijusaurus]

Here's my two cents, and I'll try to keep it short. My wife and I saw this twice and we pretty much loved it! I don't agree with many criticisms about the human characters being terrible, I thought they were fine and actually a lot more interesting than most of the characters from Godzilla (2014). My only complaint is the way they killed off Sally Hawkins. I didn't even notice that she died until I saw her death certificate as Dr Serizawa was mourning for her. At least they could've given her a more memorable death scene. Maybe she could've died in Serizawa's arms, telling him it was an honor working with him, or something. Her death was just so empty. Who knows, maybe she had a tight schedule and could only appear in a few scenes.

Regarding the monsters, they were all fantastic. My only complaint is that Ghidorah's awakening didn't have much of an impact. There was no real anticipation or fear of awakening him. One minute he was frozen in ice, and the next boom, he's awake and fighting Godzilla. Which was great btw!

I would say my biggest disappointment was at the very end when Vira Farmiga is driving around the city with Ghidorah destroying buildings around her left and right. I was rolling my eyes at that scene and thinking to myself, "Will you just die already??!" That scene was just so unnecessary and dumb! Reminded me of the awful taxi chase from GINO (1998).

Overall, a really good movie! I give it a 3.5/5.

[Gentleman]

Some concept art has been released:







The rest are here:
https://screenrant.com/godzilla-king-mo ... ncept-art/

The "coronation" scene looks way better than the one we got, which was one of the dodgier CGI shots of the film.

[mr.negativity]

King Ghidorah Escapes With Heisei Ghidorah Theme

phpBB [media]

[Gentleman]

That's exactly the theme I was hoping they'd tap into for this movie. I know it's nominally Kong's theme, but it worked very well for KG, too.

That guy does good stuff. I put one of his vids up in the video thread where he put the KOTM theme over Godzilla's landing in San Francisco from G14. It worked amazingly well.

[lhb412]

Dougherty confirms the "if only the Earth and stones could speak-" line is a reference to a similar line Yuri says in GMK:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Mike_Dougher ... 9380397056