TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILERS -

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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby lhb412 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:52 pm

^ I think Dougherty tweeted something about it.

Giving the other heads impressive-sounding names only to bestow the third head with Kevin? I I think I remember something like that.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby jellydonut25 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:49 am

He jokingly said they were Ichi (One) Ni (Two) and Kevin, and the fandom has run wild with it.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Gwangi » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:28 pm

Thanks fellas! All of this (at least for me), just came out of left field, leaving me to wonder, what the heck are they using that name for this severed head? For me, I will just leave it as "the severed head"!
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Rody » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:57 pm

Here's the post that started it: https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1136289119729016833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1136289119729016833&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicbook.com%2Fanime%2F2019%2F06%2F07%2Fgodzilla-king-ghidorah-heads-names-revealed-michael-dougherty%2F

Mike Dougherty wrote:Center head: Ichi; Right head: Ni; Left head: San... aka Kevin.




...So I saw the film twice in theaters - enjoyed both showings a lot, albeit not quite as much as I would have liked. It's a big, fun movie, but it lacks pretty much any nuance or finese in storytelling, which is part of what I thought made the 2014 film special. Coincidental or not, I do think the film potentially carries a "man vs. nature" message in a different sort of way than is typically told: rather than saying "save the environment!", per se, it says something more like "the environment will take care of itself". There seem to be common threads between human protagonists and antagonists alike, in that every time humanity tries to "fix" a problem, they only seem to make things worse (including nuking Godzilla and nearly causing him to explode by accident). Sadly, the script never lets us dwell on these things; there are several moments where even a single line of dialogue might have added some weight, but we get nothing. I can't blame some fans for really hating this film, because it really does carry a lot of the issues from the 90s films and possibly exacerbate them, albeit with much nicer effects scenes to try disguising them. That said, Godzilla movies ARE about spectacle at least partly, and the film delivers pretty well about that.

My pros:
  1. The themes, THE THEMES!! Rodan's new theme is a great action/thriller piece, Ghidorah's theme is pretty eerie, and ohhhhhh man, the revamped Ifukube and Koseki themes are to die for. Mothra's theme got me WAY more worked up than I ever would have expected it to.
  2. Mothra herself is a total show-stealer too. All of the big 4 have considerable screen presence, but Mothra takes the cake. She doesn't have the best design, but she absolutely takes the spotlight!
  3. Rodan's awakening is a highlight of the film, although I have mixed feelings about him losing and submitting to Ghidorah so quickly. I suppose since he did explicitly challenge Ghidorah to start, it balances out?
  4. I like most of the changes to Godzilla's design; he's a bit bigger and more imposing now. I liked the super-long tail, though. I was surprised to hear the classic 60s/70s roar mixed in the 2014 sounds.
  5. I really do think the film has the potential to say something interesting about our relationship with the planet's environment; honestly I especially liked the choice of framing the villains as environmental extremists. Sometimes I get the feeling people like that really do exist, and that just distorts the perspective further. For all we talk about harming the environment, there's also still a lot we just don't know yet, and we need to be careful about what actions we take one way or the other.
  6. I did find the overall cast of human characters more engaging this time; and the reference to the twins was delightful. Actually, it occurred to me that we have a much stronger gender and race representation in this film than before (not super-important to me, but it's nice all the same).

The cons:
  1. This movie is big and loud - a bit too loud. music, sound effects, and roars tend to blur together to the detraction of all. It's definitely a step down from 2014.
  2. A lot of scenes are shot just a little too closely for ideal action viewing, and the storm visuals, while a neat concept for Ghidorah, further obscure details just a little too much. Another step down from 2014.
  3. The humor sucks - all of it just sucks.
  4. Again, the script seems sloppy in a lot of places - too much going on with not enough time to really reflect on anything.
  5. The Oxygen Destroyer out of nowhere and the nuke plan to save Godzilla are definitely awkward moments which look like they fly in the face of the franchise; again, just a little bit of foreshadowing or reflection might have helped both scenes (e.g. Serizawa and Stenz considering the irony of the plan when Serizawa tried to STOP Stenz from doing nearly the same thing 5 years ago - albeit to kill the monsters, not revive them).
  6. Poor Dr. Graham. While not as criminal as was PR:U did, I was still bummed they took her out like that, and so abruptly too (I actually missed it the first time).

What I really do like, however, is hearing both here and elsewhere that, apparently, all of the kids seeing this movie are really liking it; and let's be real here, how many of us were paying attention to political commentary in these films at age 7 or 11? This movie definitely has problems, but it just might end up doing a lot of good for the franchise's longevity.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Benjamin Haines » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:02 am

jellydonut25 wrote:I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.


Where did they say that?

This is what Michael Dougherty said at the April press conference when asked why it was special for him to work on a Godzilla movie:
Michael Dougherty wrote:Godzilla sort of provided this weird security blanket because he was so strong, he was so powerful, but besides the fact that it was entertaining and fun, I was keenly aware even at that young age that there was a message underneath all of it, and I heard that, and that meant a lot. In the same way that Star Wars is really a movie about spirituality if you dissect it, Godzilla had this oddly subversive message to it. So that resonated and the fact that it was made by other Asian people just meant a lot and so I wanted to continue that.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby jellydonut25 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:50 am

Benjamin Haines wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.
Where did they say that?

The art book.

I'll find the actual quote later, but they ask point-blank what the message is and he says, "I think it's about not bringing your baggage to work."

EDIT: it wasn't Dougherty, it was the co-writer Zach Shields.
From the art book:
"So, is the film's message that extreme eco-activism is a good thing, but you must do your research first? Shields laughs, 'I think the moral, to me anyway, is that at its heart it goes back to the family, which is: deal with your crap, don't bring it to work.' "

That boggles my damn mind.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby oaklord » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:58 pm

Mac wrote:It was worse than I imagined. I'm parroting another critic here, but it really does feel like a Heisei Godzilla film.

I will be happy when this bombs and we can be done with American Godzilla once and for all.


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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby UltraDada72 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:02 am

goji4ever wrote:Watched the film again...
it went down easier, not as much a “disappointment”... noticed a few more details.. the “big” issues remain

-a proper monster on rampage scene is missing
-Rodan deserved better
-Not enough Ghidorah
-Mothra was there just to be there (as was Rodan).. Mothras sacrifice didnt have the desired effect cause it was rushed... if anything she should have enveloped Godzilla.. eaten a couple of blasts then flown in and gotten disintegrated.
-Ending still feels rushed, Godzilla goes Spicy Cheetoh then pulses to victory..

Chandlers character carries the human side well... not as visually or audio impressive as G14


I was so annoyed with how they portrayed Rodan in this film. He was the kaiju I was looking forward to most, and after a pretty good introduction, he gets beaten by Ghidorah, becomes his "OH GODZILLA! WHAT TERRIBLE LANGUAGE!", then gets his ass handed to him by Mothra, and ends the film as an obedient little puppy to Godzilla. Ugh! I also didn't like that all the monster scenes kept getting interrupted by clips of the humans running, reacting, explaining what's happening on screen (as if we can't tell), etc.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby UltraDada72 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:27 am

lhb412 wrote:But, at the very least the monster scenes are worth it, right? Sadly, I found most of them quite poor. There are excellent, beautifully composed shots of the monsters which have largely been seen in the promotional material. But taken as whole sequences in the film these scenes are undercut by certain bad technical and creative choices. First of all, almost every shot of the monsters is only a few seconds long only to cut to human reaction shot of equal length before cutting back to the monsters. This disjointed approach makes it very difficult to appreciate the fights as fights. Fights are storytelling, they must be followed and understood. These fights are a barely connected sequence of things that people thought were cool shots or moments without the care of being cohesive storytelling. They're also undermined buy inconsistent framing and shot choices often revolving around having the human heroes being directly underfoot of fighting monsters and miraculously (mostly) being able to make it out relatively unharmed despite the fact that even the most generous audience member would expect instant death from this close proximity. It makes the drama less dramatic when we can't buy the peril and it awkwardly effects our perspective of the monster battles so it ends up making the sequences seem even less realistic then the most basic man in suit fight! Unfortunately, it feels like Doigherty is trying to replicate the tricks Edwards used just such great effect at the end of the 2014 film, which just goes to show what a meticulous, even brilliant visual storyteller Edwards is.


So happy to hear someone else say this. The monster scenes kept getting ruined by cuts to the human characters. The story, script and characters were all bad, but they could've at least given us some decent monster scenes and fights that were really mind blowing. The world was under siege by monsters and not once did any of it feel like a real threat due to the badly composed action scenes. I'm really hoping the next film is better assembled instead of feeling like a bunch of ideas tossed together with no rhyme or reason like this film felt.
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby jellydonut25 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:17 am

UltraDada72 wrote:I'm really hoping the next film is better assembled instead of feeling like a bunch of ideas tossed together with no rhyme or reason like this film felt.

I wouldn't get your hopes too high for that. The Monsterverse, such as it is, lacks a captain and a singular driving force, and as such, it's just a bunch of people pooling their ideas together and going with what "works"
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Re: TALKBACK: Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) - SPOILE

Postby Benjamin Haines » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:12 am

jellydonut25 wrote:
Benjamin Haines wrote:
jellydonut25 wrote:I think all these reads into the metaphors of KOTM fall terribly flat when the director and writers, upon being confronted with questions about the themes and messages of the movie and its problematic take on the nuclear themes of Godzilla have shrugged and said, "The movie is ultimately about not bringing your personal baggage to work."

Oh. Okay. So, you didn't actually give a singular f*** about the nuclear aspect. Got it.
Where did they say that?

The art book.

I'll find the actual quote later, but they ask point-blank what the message is and he says, "I think it's about not bringing your baggage to work."

EDIT: it wasn't Dougherty, it was the co-writer Zach Shields.
From the art book:
"So, is the film's message that extreme eco-activism is a good thing, but you must do your research first? Shields laughs, 'I think the moral, to me anyway, is that at its heart it goes back to the family, which is: deal with your crap, don't bring it to work.' "

That boggles my damn mind.


Interesting, thanks for sharing that. I don't have the art book yet but it sounds like the interviewer is asking specifically about Emma Russell's plot to release the Titans to "help" the planet and the fact that Earth does seem to be better off by film's end with all of the Titans awakened. Zach Shields seems to be saying that the moral of Emma's story is that she shouldn't have let the tragedy of losing her son lead her to become an eco-terrorist mole within Monarch. Shields is decidedly shooting down the notion that the film says extreme eco-activism is a good thing.

I hope that Dougherty and Shields record an audio commentary for the BRD/DVD release. G'14 didn't have one but Kong: Skull Island did.
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